Mothering Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,769 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After finally sorting through all of my feelings and fears on the actual birth process of UC, and making the decision to do it, only one fear remains...

being investigated, prosecuted, and having my child(ren) taken from me.


I know that having an unassisted pregnancy and birth are not against the law, but I also know how narrow-minded, and WRONG authority figures can be when it comes to interpreting the law. I also have read so many stories of UCers having to explain themselves to CPS, and the truth is, I don't know if I could bear the scrutiny, emotionally or financially.
I am not middle-class+, and I'm not highly educated, I wouldn't even know where to begin defending my actions if CPS became involved. We live a simple lifestyle (intentional) that most people find "odd", to say the least. Most of the UCers here seem to be pretty typical in their lifestyle, other than how they birth, and raise their children. So, if you had to end up dealing with the scrutiny of the medical community, looking "normal" may have protected you. People make snap judgements, it's human nature. I know that to most people, I look like a, poor, ignorant, trashy, hillbilly
and I'm scared about how that will affect how I'm treated by CPS or anyone that might question what we are doing.
I remember one particularly scathing line from a mainstream birthing book, concerning the so-called "dangers" of homebirth. They thought they were being vey generous to homebirthers, when they made the statement that "of course these statistics also include births that took place in dingy tenements, and backwoods shacks"
: Not the most enlightened thing I have ever read, but it did drive home the point that anything outside the "norm" to these people, is BAD, and I will be a target of their judgement at the drop of a hat.
Does anyone get what I am saying? Felt the same way? Or can provide directions to a planet where human beings actually DO have personal autonomy?


ETA, pics of my "backwoods shack"

We ARE fixing the house up slowly, but hey, what do you expect for 70k? LOL
http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...untain%20High/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,740 Posts
I TOTALLY get what you are saying. We sleep on the floor. I've been married for 11 years now, we've ALWAYS slept on the floor. ~ We have blankets, pillows, sheets, of course, but we fold it up during the day and put it in the closet. When we bought our house it came with four bedrooms of furniture and I dumped it all.... I prefer the space and dh has always felt soft beds are unhealthy, he sold me on the concept early in our relationship.

ANYWAY~ I've always thought that should we ever have the misfortune of having to deal with CPS or the like, that it would look bad that we, and our children sleep on the floor. I can just imagine the comments. "oh those poor children don't even have BEDS!"

I say good for you. Go where your heart takes you, mama! I so look forward to the day that I can wake up and my concerns are collecting eggs, tending the garden, getting fences mended and the like instead of getting to the bank, the supermarket and making sure the car is clean......

Just my own little gripe but who gives a flying fig if my car is clean?! WHY is that so important around here!?!

Kat
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,441 Posts
My fear is that if my baby was born and needed some help - then I would have to deal with CPS when I went to get that help. But... no body is safe from that. When I transferred to the hospital last time, they took my baby to the NICU and kept him for 5 days. I was forced to allow them to keep him, because they were going to distract me from him with CPS nonsense in order to get him out AMA. I might have been able to get him out earlier, but then I would not have been able to take care of him and get him nursing while I was fighting that battle... I'm just doing alot of praying that I will know if UC is safe for us and taking it on faith that if I'm lead to stick with UC then my baby will be fine.

I love your place - beautiful. I'm getting into goat raising too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,323 Posts
We transferred to the NICU with my first. He was born at home, in what we called "the chicken coop" because that's what the outbuilding on my in-law's farm had been used for before we fixed it up to be liveable. We had dirt floors covered with plastic and then rugs and an outhouse outside. We loved it and thought it was a perfect home, but I can imagine if "authorities" ever got involved, that they would not think our home fit to raise a child!!

So no, you are not alone in your nontraditional, back to the land style of living. And by the way, your place looks beautiful! What fun your children will have growing up there!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,408 Posts
I would love to live , and have grown up there. Your children are so lucky! I don't have any advice, just
. I too worry about CPS occasionally, especialy since I am diagnosed GD and my OB won't "let" me go past 40 weeks. DH says he will jus take my phone so they can't call and bug me, but I worry who they would call. I'm hoping the baby will make an early appearence, but DD was induced at 41.3 weeks so...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
707 Posts
OMG your place is BEAUTIFUL! So idyllic.

I share the "what about CPS" fears. For me, what helped was to research the laws and make a binder of anything I needed to do in the (unlikely) event they do come knocking on the door. I think that it would also help if you needed to transfer if you could show something that says you did take this pregnancy seriously (duh!) and weren't ignoring it, hoping it would go away, or a strung-out drug user who forgot to go in for prenatal care. Which I gather is the stereotype of the mother who walks in not having had any prenatal care.

I think where UC'ers get into trouble is when they can't provide any documentation on prentatal care, no documentation that they've actually researched birth options, etc. CPS as a government agency is IMHO all about the paperwork and documentation.

Your children are so lucky to have someone as dedicated to living a natural lifestyle and live in such a beautiful place!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,161 Posts
I live, to the outside world, a pretty mainstream life. BUT. I am only 20, and I look even younger than that. Because of that, I worried that if I had to transfer, they would be even quicker to sick CPS on me than if I were 30.

So, I retained a lawyer. He was very understanding of my wishes to UC and my fears of CPS becoming involved. The plan was to call him immediately if I were to have to transfer, and let him handle the hospital administration and, if necessary, CPS. Luckily, my birth went beautifully and I never had to call him.

I am still prepared to deal with CPS at any given notice. I have educated myself on the laws in my state and I can rattle them off easily. I know that without a warrant, no one can legally come into my home if I do not let them. I know that even if they have a warrant, it is my legal right to record or video tape the entire visit, which I would do to CMA when they start twisting my words around.
If there are two dirty coffee cups in the sink, CPS could say "sink full of dirty dishes" but if I have video proof, I'm in the clear.

I'm pretty paranoid, or maybe just super-realistic, about the government attempting to force itself into my life. I think the biggest thing I do to prevent government involvement is to keep quiet. I didn't tell a lot of people about my plans to UC, and I keep pretty quiet about my feelings on vaxing, schooling, etc. I do not live in a progressive state, and as much as I would like to be on the forefront of changing that, my priority now is to raise my son without any battles. I'll have plenty of time after he is of age to fight.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,594 Posts
it might be helpful to take the position that there is nothing to defend.

simply, there is a misunderstanding, misinformation, and you now have the opportunity to educate 'as much as you want' (which could mean very little) and/or that CPS simply isn't going to misunderstand you or have a problem with you once you meet them (if you meet them).

to be honest, i do not believe that CPS will be an issue for us. If they are, i'm not at all concerned about it. Worst case scenario, if CPS came around, i'd not let them in, ask them to call me to make an appointment, immediately call a family lawyer to get some availablity, and make sure that lawyer was present when CPS arrived. this is simply to assert my rights, not to defend me from CPS. do you see the difference?

Everything about my UC will be fine, and if not, then i can handle it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,901 Posts
I feel I understand what you are getting at Crissei. We ended up involved w/ CPS after our UC due to someone's total narrow-mindedness and ignorance and that person isn't too bright to begin with. We are a young family (still under 30), still below the poverty level and was living in subsidized housing at the time, and thought that having a car to get back and forth to work was doing pretty good for ourselves.

Then getting into "we're not the average parents"...Our bed was on the floor (at the time, on a boxspring, now we just have the mattress on the floor!) and the SW actually asked "the baby doesn't sleep with you does he?" and I lied and said no, thanking my lucky stars I had set up the cradle during a nesting fit a few weeks prior. He even brought up immunizations and that was how I knew whom had called on us.

Anyways, I didn't ever actually imagine I would be in the situation that I was in, and I lost my little post-partum-homoned mind. The next day was worse when the Sw's supervisor threatened us with "action" if we didn't take our 5 day old son to the ER to be checked out first thing that morning. Going to the ER was one of the hardest things I ever dragged my feet into, but we lucked out with a reasonable SW and a compassionate ER staff who kept asking me details about the birth in amazement. Pretty much the whole ordeal was settled then and there.

If I could go back now, I'd of known I didn't even have to let the SW in the door. I had Dh on the phone telling me not to but I was blindsided and didn't know what to do. I think the best thing is to know what your rights are. I'm really glad I had the internet to turn to at the time too
So, we did go through a very traumatizing experience, but I'm ok now
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
299 Posts
I worried about this a ton with my first pg. My brother's doctor friend had him convinced that as soon as we went to get a birth certificate and it became known that we UC'ed, ds would be taken away (sooo far from reality). But then, my mom's friend, who worked for DFAC's for several years, basically said that child services has far more to worry about than people who don't go to doctor's or raise their kids unconventionally. She also said that if anything did come up, they'd request an interview with me and even just showing them all of the books I have on herbal medicine and midwifery should be enough to keep them off my back. Anything I couldn't back up with "knowledge", I could always use personal, religious beliefs.
It made me feel better anyway...

jiva
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,428 Posts
Looks like a great place to live to me.

I really don't know what to tell you. I did feel confident in my abilities to deal w/ any government interference, should it arise, because we look pretty "normal" from the outside (til you get to know us, HA HA HA HA HA). It's hard for me to imagine CPS becoming interested unless they get a report from someone, so just don't tell anybody
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,062 Posts
Hi, I like what a pp said about there being nothing to defend. If we believe we have done nothing 'wrong' by ucing our confidence goes up, easier said than done sometimes though. I uc'ed twice and was living in a tent and a van at the times so was perfect fodder for the cps mindset.
I can relate with what the pp said about being informed about rights and birth etc as this will empower you to feel more validated in your choices and give cps or whoever something to think about. I also told no-one what I was doing and keep quiet about my vax, schooling choices, heck it's like censorship really and I think the fact that people may and do get hassled about uc if they need to transfer actually makes birthing more dangerous and of course can wreck the experience.
I'm so glad I uced, so glad I didn't vax, so glad I got to homeschool for a awhile anyway, so glad I'm considered a freak and unconventional. Be proud of who you are and your valid choices. Most cps I've met, and I was in care since a child, are in my opinion, seriously misguided people, who fear anything out of the 'norm, have in the past attempted to physke (sp) me out( as a young child, yep it was me that was the prob not the situation) and make me feel guilty for what and who I am. They are usually very straight, boring, unimaginative people. To me they are the morality police, trying to change us into what they deem acceptable. Some of the older ones had more sense.
Totally don't let em in, deffo say you can arrange an appointment. maintain your dignity and privacy if you have contact as these people are paid to invade that, they are just paid busybodies and have no right to inflict their shallow-minded opinions on anybody. In my experience they don't care about kids either it's all a power game. Hopefully you will not be harrassed. But if you are just be a strong powerful mama, they usually back down when faced with a strong, informed mindset and I tell ya just waffle on about herbs, organics, gentle-birthing etc that soon bores em or satisfies em. Your place is coool, beautiful. Good luck on all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Hi.
Let me introduce myself. 3 months ago I gave birth to a beautiful baby girl at home, by myself (my mother left an hour and a half prior to me giving birth). I refused to go to the hospital because I didn't want to be induced. I felt fine being at home and wasn't even sure if it was labor. I felt safe being at home because I'd read so much literature on childbirth & some on unassisted. I still feel like no matter what, it's too radical a position to take against the government and be successful. If there's anything else about you they can latch on to, birthing independently and not contacting medical assistance can be looked at as irrational or irresponsible. In my case, I'd been considering adoption for months, and had researched all my options. My parents had first tried to get me to get married to my boyfriend and settle down to raise a child, but I wasn't ready for that and wanted to make the decision on my own, without pressure. The moment my boyfriend left they descended on me that adoption was the only option. When I had a conversation with my father the week before I was due about bringing the baby home, he snapped. Finding out I'd birthed at home was the last straw. He threatened to call 911 and then told my doctor he had concerns about me caring for my daughter. I am bipolar and have been hospitalized a number of times, but care for myself fine and know nothing would have happened had I not been rushed to the hospital and interrogated. I had never used a lawyer, if you are savvy you will have one and know the risks & dangers going in. This couldn't have happened (my child placed in foster care) without severe family pressure in my instance- I'm guessing if you are surrounded by supporters of your desire to birth independently, you'll have a much better head start than me. Add a psyche history and fears of "what could've happened" and my case was a recipe for disaster. CPS doesn't care what laws are- they are above the law and can use "denial of medical care" as a reason to do so- EVEN WITHOUT ANYTHING GOING WRONG. If your father isn't a very opinionated doctor, I'm going to guess again the cards are stacked better in your favor than mine. All I can say is, don't sign anything, and say "I need to talk to my lawyer before signing anything" if they try to get involved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,633 Posts
Crissei - this is how i look at it. not to be freaked out by what hasnt happeend yet and worry about it. i have had the CPS in my house (ex issues). you are living a wonderful life (my dream life
) just enjoy that. not all CPS workers are bad. i didnt have a seperate bed for my 3 year old and we had a mattress on the floor and still do. seh didnt find everything perfect but as she noted this was the house of a 3 year old not a 9 month old. and she was v. nice.

the thing is if i had gotten a social worker from hell no matter what i did if she had an agenda she would do all to take my child away.

even though i live in the city i live a pretty unconventional life. but i refuse to live in fear of the CPS worker. i know my rights. if and when that happens i will deal with it and fight for my kids. but i refuse to let the fear of CPS ruin how i live.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Also I wanted to state that,
if you want to register the birth-- in my state at least-- you have up to one year afterwards to register the birth-- I haven't registered mine yet but am not certain who I'll get as "certifier" since my dad was pretty pissed about cutting the umbilical cord, my mother left me in the middle of labor, and I was obviously the only person there at birth. Strangely enough, my child was taken from me and stuck into the state without any certification of birth, or a social security number.
Apparently if your baby's over 2 months old you cannot apply for a SS# on the birth certificate, you have to apply @ the SS office.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,190 Posts
Cranberry99, I am so sorry.
I cannot imagine the betrayal that your parents perpetrated. May I ask if your dd was returned to you? Again, I'm so very sorry.


This is also a very real fear of mine, especially b/c dh does not do a very good job with housecleaning (SAHD). I am working on him with it and I do my best to compensate for it, too. He's trying - he's just not a good housekeeper. And I know if CPS wants to they can take messy laundry and dishes in the sink and turn it into a big deal.
: I've also informed him of his basic rights WRT CPS, including not letting them in without a warrant.

Julia
dd 11 mos
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top