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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My bil is in Iraq. He left a month before his baby daughter was born.

We are on the outs with the whole family b/c my dh (gulf war vet) tried to talk bil out of joining the marines. tried to explain a little about mideast politics, and tried to tell bil that he would be more valuable as the decent man that he is, available for his family.

bil and the family believe he is defending the country.

so i'd like to support my sister but she doesn't seem to want to assoc. with me because I disagree with Bush's whole policy. I ask how she is, how the baby is, etc. but I think she's waiting for me to say what a hero her dh is.

I know he's a good man, I know he's in definite danger and very brave, but I think he abandoned his family to follow a corrupt leader into an impossible situation. (i've never verbalized this, of course)

thoughts? how are you dealing with this in your family?

The ext. fam thinks dh is a sort of traitor b/c he doesn't want our sons to join the military. He was in the navy (nuke submarine) for 6 years. He thought Clinton was arbitrary and he thinks Bush is criminal.

please don't flame me. I am trying to heal the breach w/family.
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Thats a tough one...I have 2 uncles and a cousin who are career military and they do not understand my views. However, my one uncle sat my brother down and advised him NOT to join the military, but he still says he supports Bush.

Maybe tell your sis while you do not agree with the war, you believe that your BIL is doing a couragus (sp?) thing and you want to do all you can to help and support her during this difficult time?

GL
 

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Generally, your BIL's willingness to sign up for the Marines is indeed service to our nation.

However, the mission he and his comrades have been sent on in Iraq by this administration has done nothing to make this nation safer (see http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05159/517430.stm ). Heck, even Rummy has said that IRAQ isn't safer right now (see http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050614...3658&printer=1)

Does your family know that, right now, military folk on the ground in Iraq acknowledge that the war in Iraq is unwinnable in a military sense (see http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwash...intstory.jsp)?

Is your family aware of the near crimminal way this administration prepared the troops and the nation for this adventure, despite warnings from military folks:
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwash...printstory.jsp
http://americanassembler.com/issues/...esistance.html
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/ssi/pdffiles/PUB182.pdf
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/fea...0501.rood.html

And it is not like this administration didn't have enough time to prepare:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_061505Y.shtml

It is also worth remembering that Hussein's regime had no air force to threaten this nation and its neighbors, didn't control its airspace and heck it didn't even control almost a third of the nation in Iraqi Kurdistan. It is also worth asking why most of Iraq's neighbors didn't fear Iraq when the U.S. invaded.

Maybe ask if they know that the Bush administration had the opportunity to smite Abu Musab Zarqawi in no-fly zone protected northern Iraq months BEFORE the invasion but did not: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601/

And let's not forget, no WMDs found and and no connection to the Hussein regime and al Queda and 9/11. Dubya Inc. sent in the troops despite warnings from different govt. agencies that these reasons for war were shaky at best (see http://www.americanprogress.org/site...89&printmode=1 ). Now we've given al Queda and its affiliates an excellent way to train and kill Americans, as well as soak our economy:

http://icasualties.org/oif/Details.aspx
http://icasualties.org/oif/Wounded.aspx
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
http://www.costofwar.com/

And after all that, we now have Iran and N. Korean saying nyah nyah and a military that has been weakened:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...001897_pf.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/11/po...gewanted=print
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050609/..._usa_army_dc_3
http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/of...otexitstrategy
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001581.html

Bottom line: this was a war initiated by choice (recall Dubya's "military action begins at a time of our choosing" line). Frankly, how is it NOT patriotic pointing out the fallacies of this war?

My advice though, despite the information listed above, is probably avoid any discussion about the war but be prepared to counter if your extended family keeps flinging around that 'traitor' bullshit.

Keep your BIL in your thoughts (and prayers if that's your thing), write to him, send books (non-political!) and offer babysitting duties for the new born and her mom. You may want to check in at this site from time to time:
http://www.optruth.org/main.cfm.

Best of luck to you, your BIL and the rest of your family.
 

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My daughter is a Marine serving in Ramadi, Iraq. Although I'm not quite as anti War as RowansDad I am ambivilent about a lot of things related to this war and Bush and Co.

My daughter, however, has been against the war since even before hostilities.

She loves her sister and is thankful for her service to this nation and she's supportive of her service.

She sends Joanna a lot of letters and packages.

Find our what your nephew wants and needs (it will be strange stuff that the govt. should be providing to them!!!) and ship it over. Shipping isn't expensive because you pay us rates. Write him letters, the troops love getting snail mail. Let your family know that you love him, support him, and appriciate his service. It isn't the *millitary* that is the source of your concern but the Politicians and high up brass that (in my opinion) so dishonors our troops by taking their lives so frivolously.

Debra Baker
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
RowansDad, wow. Thanks for the links. DH has let the fam. know that the topic is totally off limits, he is so affronted by their views. But I appreciate the evidence for what he already thinks. I'm sad that he's right, though
.

Debra, that is a good, practical idea. If we send him care packages, they will both know that we actually do care. I'm sure my mom knows what would be appreciated.

I think BIL was snookered into joining the service. He really believed he was going to go get the guys responsible for 9/11. I'm sure he's not the only one that went in that way.

thanks for letting me talk about it
 

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My DH is deployed right now (not Iraq), and neither of us supported the war. He has to stay in 3 more years and had to do a deployment. I think if you are in the war or have loved ones in the war, you have a tendancy to feel that they are working for a just cause, or how can you live with the separation or possible loss of your loved one if it's for a cause you don't support? For us, we view it as a commitment that has to be honored whether or not you agree with the policies (and a commitment we will be very glad to end). To answer your question, I think the best way is to send whatever your BIL and his buddies need. Also cards, letters, and photos/videos of BILs baby and family (if you see them). The Bush administration has left the troops in need of everything from water to toilet paper. I think it would show that you care and also do something to help morale. There are website devoted to what the troops are missing. Maybe someone has a link. Best of luck to you and safe return for your BIL.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DebraBaker
My daughter is a Marine serving in Ramadi, Iraq. Although I'm not quite as anti War as RowansDad I am ambivilent about a lot of things related to this war and Bush and Co.

My daughter, however, has been against the war since even before hostilities.

She loves her sister and is thankful for her service to this nation and she's supportive of her service.

She sends Joanna a lot of letters and packages.

Find our what your nephew wants and needs (it will be strange stuff that the govt. should be providing to them!!!) and ship it over. Shipping isn't expensive because you pay us rates. Write him letters, the troops love getting snail mail. Let your family know that you love him, support him, and appriciate his service. It isn't the *millitary* that is the source of your concern but the Politicians and high up brass that (in my opinion) so dishonors our troops by taking their lives so frivolously.

Debra Baker
:

Two of my BILs are in the Army (my sister's husband and my DH's brother) and I *try* to be supportive of them even though I am totally against war (and brushing up against pacifism). I would not say I am thankful for their service (they certainly aren't serving *me*) or supportive (holy crap, how can you leave a toddler w/an unfit mother and a new wife even more newly pg just).

I have organized my family to send care packages to my sisters husband (and will do the same for DH's brother when he deploys in November). I try to swallow my bile when I can and let many of their comments go.

What is on his list:
movies
books
tuna (??? he wants it)
beef jerky
hard candies
SOFT, good kleenex
baby wipes
yarn (he is kniting for his baby due in sept
)
cross stitch (not so much anymore but he was bored for awhile)
mach 3 razor blades
crackers
cookies
Gatorade powder
coffee
x-box games

pictures of us
art from the kids
peanuts
wet wipes
....

and more

I worry about him every day and I ache for my sister.
 

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Oh, wanted to add...

I don't think I do a very good job of being supportive of the troops, because I just CANNOT support what they are doing.

That said, I realize a lot of them are stuck and I do feel really bad for my sister, so I do it out of love for her. I can't imagine how I would feel if my DH was around the world in harms way while I was six months pg. And I do want my BIL to know that I care about him and that we are here for him.
 

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I think the worrying is aging me.

Yesterday five Marines were blown up in their humvee and I just felt my stomach drop and my heart go into hyperdrive.

I said a prayer it wasn't Joanna but felt ashamed of myself because if it wasn't her it was someone else's loved ones.

Debra Baker
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
DB,
Can't imagine how much harder it is for a mother. Prayers for Joanna's safety.

I know, every time I turn on my computer, my homepage shows the local news; its always Marines from my BIL's state. So I click the link, and they don't tell names.
 

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The way I try to look at it is: I easily support the troops who are there against their will who signed up before Dubya- I feel such tremendous sympathy towards them and their families and I tried to vote for someone who would get them out of there.

I do not "support" the troops who are there by choice (meaning enlisted after the war began) because it is a choice I disagree with entirely, and I agree with you 100% that it is so much more important to be home taking care of your children than fighting for the rights of corporate America. If you choose to give your life to something like that, so be it. But don't expect my support. The only thing I can honestly support is that you voted for the war and you kept your word. I respect that more than I respect voting for W. and then not enlisting. But I still respect not voting for W and not supporting the war much more.

They don't have to agree with you. It may just be one of those issues that can never be agreed upon. I think you and your DH are right.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bri276
The way I try to look at it is: I easily support the troops who are there against their will who signed up before Dubya- I feel such tremendous sympathy towards them and their families and I tried to vote for someone who would get them out of there.

I do not "support" the troops who are there by choice (meaning enlisted after the war began) because it is a choice I disagree with entirely, and I agree with you 100% that it is so much more important to be home taking care of your children than fighting for the rights of corporate America. If you choose to give your life to something like that, so be it. But don't expect my support. The only thing I can honestly support is that you voted for the war and you kept your word. I respect that more than I respect voting for W. and then not enlisting. But I still respect not voting for W and not supporting the war much more.

They don't have to agree with you. It may just be one of those issues that can never be agreed upon. I think you and your DH are right.
I hear you there. One BIL went off to boot camp August 2001--- I don't think he would have joined up. The other, though... firmly after. Of course he was divorced with an infant son to care for, no education and no money to get one--- he went in to become a paramedic and has done so. They both, though, totally believe the "propoganda".
 
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