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My friend just started TTC, so now we're talking about all things baby. I mentioned that if I ever have a boy, I won't be circ'ing him. All she could say was "Ewww! That's so gross! I would never make my child go thru life like that!"<br><br>
I tried explaining everything I could--the functions of the foreskin, the myths about hygiene, the child's right to a whole body, etc, etc, and most importantly, the unbelievable trauma a baby experiences with RIC. She was unmoved. Just kept saying "Ewww! That's disgusting!" <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:<br><br>
How do you respond when someone says that?
 

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Talk about her disgusting vulva? (That's no good, those people usually concur. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> Still, you can 'em why they don't cut off their own junk if it's so hard to wash.)
 

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It sounds like your friend is an idiot. No offense.<br><br>
It sounds like she finds foreskin to be "gross" which is exactly how the proponents of FGM feel about the "full" vulva. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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Honestly? If someone is being that ignorant, I'd go with something like:<br><br>
"You want to know what's disgusting? Strapping a baby to a board, giving him inefficient pain control - if he gets ANY at all - and then CUTTING OFF PART OF HIS PENIS. Then they slap some nasty petroleum jelly and gauze on the OPEN, BLEEDING WOUND and put a diaper on him, where the OPEN WOUND on his PENIS will be exposed to urine - which BURNS - and feces!<br><br>
"And you know what's the most disgusting thing? That the people who decide to do this to a poor, defenseless baby are his PARENTS, the ones who created him and brought him into the world ... and then they turn around and hand him over to be butchered when they should be protecting his every cell with their entire beings. *That's* what's disgusting."<br><br>
Huh. I guess I just got my rant on, eh?
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:<br><br>
Except I'd probably not be as polite <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Bring her a globe. Perhaps that visual image would make her see how many people don't feel the way she does.
 

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Yeah, 'idiot' is about right, it seems. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:<br><br>
I can counter pretty much every argument for RIC and against intactness (thanks to MDC!). My mom tried to tell me you have to pull back the foreskin to clean every day, and I explained how you didn't. That got her listening. Another friend changed her mind when I argued with her about the 'babies don't feel pain' balony. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shake.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shake"><br><br>
But this...she was stonewalled. I'm going to keep at her, though. I'm going to send her a circ video--maybe I can send it so that she can't see what it is before she opens it?<br><br>
Really, the next time it comes up (and there will be a next time<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">), I think I'll have go Lady Madonna's route.
 

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What is it that's she's "ewwing" about? Is it the foreskin itself? Or the "uncleanliness" she imagines that comes from the intact penis?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Papai</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7951332"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">What is it that's she's "ewwing" about? Is it the foreskin itself? Or the "uncleanliness" she imagines that comes from the intact penis?</div>
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Both. She thinks intact is aesthetically unappealing (although she didn't put it that nicely), and she acted like the foreskin was just going to attract germs far and wide. I got a bit ticked and said "Well, you wash yourself everyday, don't you? Men are capable of doing that do!" <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:
 

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She's going to be a hard one to win over due to her ignorance.<br><br>
Has she ever seen an intact penis? The cleanliness thing is a non-issue for adult intact men, retract, put a little soap if you like, wash and rinse and you're clean.<br><br>
But I'm sure you already told her that anyway.
 

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I just don't think I could deal with someone saying, "Ewwww!" even if I liked the person. It comes off as so ignorant. Even someone who prefers a circumcised penis for whatever reason should have enough class and tact to not say, "Ewwww" about a normal body part and to realize that it is, in fact, a normal body part.
 

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Heh. I talk a good game ... but I think it's because of my guilt about not speaking up before my nephew was born ... I feel like his circumcision was my fault, somehow. Honestly, the poor little guy looks mutilated and it kills me to think about it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> And now that I have a son, I feel even worse, because when he is naked, he's so small and vulnerable, *especially* his penis. How someone could bring themself to cut off part of that is just beyond me.<br><br>
As for more ewww, let's be honest - the penis is not exactly the most attractive part of the human male body, whole or not. But circumcision leaves a big ole scar, which doesn't really add to its visual appeal, ya know? In the case of the penis, I'd argue that function is much more important than form, and it's quite clear that the whole penis will function much better for all involved than one that has been reduced surgically.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Lady Madonna</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7952445"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">the penis is not exactly the most attractive part of the human male body</div>
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That's what my g/f said this past weekend. She was pro-circ till a couple weeks ago, and she finally got to "experiment" with a whole willy recently and she said even though penises aren't attractive, it's MUCH more fun with a whole one. I think she likes it more than me, lol. Sorry if this was TMI. She also mentioned that it doesn't matter if it's not attractive because the only time she'll see it is when it's "ready" to go and pulled back so no one will even notice the difference.<br><br>
Silly pro-circ people.
 

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I talk up how grateful and happy both my dh and I are that his parents "made him go through life like that." If the person kept on with "it's disgusting!" then I would go on to give her WAY TMI about my sex life and how it's FUN, not disgusting <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
Of course that wouldn't work if you have a circumcised dh... but you could always say, "I have a friend who LOVES her dh's intact penis and her dh loves having an intact penis as well! They have a truly wonderful and inspiring sex life." Even though you only know me over the internet, you can call me a friend for any intactivist purposes! Any intactivist is a friend of mine <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br>
love and peace. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love">
 

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I had a friend that said she thought they looked funny, and I told her that it was only because it was what she was used to. I said that I used to think the same way, but after I learned all about it, I started to see intact as normal and circ'd as scarred and painful. If it's the smegma thing, than women make a lot more than men. That is much more gross imo.
 

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When trying to help my friend decide not to circ (which she did decide not to BTW <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">)<br>
She also had the...but it's eewww comment. I just said it was weird for us b/c it is something we are not used to seeing. I said, "people who circ girls think that intact girls are eew, too." I also told her that her baby boys (twins) will not make her say eew when she sees them whole and when they older she 's not going to be seeing them anyway. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Probably pointless. I just mention things every now and then and hopefully they'll research. If push came to shove, then I'd tell her it was pretty pathetic that she was going to circumcise for no better reason than an "EWW." Ridiculous.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Papai</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7950878"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It sounds like your friend is an idiot.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:
 
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