[ComaWhite]

Birth in the hospital I mean, I just got back from my first (and only) dr.'s appointment to confirm my pregnancy. (Necessary for uc's in my province)
I feel so violated lying there on a table on my back with my @ss hanging off the end and a strange man sticking sh*t where it shouldnt go and making me bleed in the process
I told them flat out I wasnt going to do any internal exams, but the nurse told me to turn around, walk out and make an appointment elsewhere because they wouldnt have me as a patient unless I had at least one done. And this is supposed to be one of the most natural birth/midwife freindly dr.'s in the city. I was already there and just wanted to get my ONE appointment done and over with so I could go home and forget about it; so I gave in, not quite remembering how incerdibly horrible it was from last time.
I came home and cried. I feel so violated and sick.
At least thats over with.... now I dont have to go back until my baby is out for a newborn checkup to get a letter from the dr. for a birth certificate. But WHY is ANY of that done, its so unnecessary, brutal and horrid...
How do people birth in that environment? Why do they have to make it so hard to get a freaking birth certificate? I shouldnt have to sell myself to prove that my baby is real.
I keep holding my belly and appologising to my baby, to my body. Crying and visualizing the bleeding stopping, everything being ok and promising to never do that again... well....until next pregnancy

 

[cravenab00]

ugh, how HORRIBLE! I am so sorry you had to go through that, and that you were violated.

How in the world someone WANTS to birth in the hospital with strangers sticking things up god knows where. I will never understand.

I felt violated at my hospital births, but thought I HAD to be there, and thought me feeling violated must mean I was crazy.

I will never understand why people PREFER hospitals. Or ANYONE sticking hand up anywhere.

HUGS

 

[kungfumoose]

Oh, I am soo sorry you had to go through that!!

It amazes me that people just accept this as "normal" for a doctor to violate a woman. I won't even let the female practitioners look up around inside me.
At my Baby shower, the women (aquaintences, but probably not friends) were asking me if I was dialated yet. I kept saying I didn't know, and they asked why, so I had to tell them that I was refusing personal exams. They all kept saying things like "you have to throw privacy out the window when it comes to childbirth" and "pregnancy is not the time for modesty"
Grrr!!! It makes me so mad!!!!
I want the act that ends my pregnancy to be as beautiful, private and intimate as the act that started it!!

I am convinced that a lot of PPD (not all, I do realise that there is some legitamate PPD) is actually Post traumatic stress disorder.
I was a victim of molestation as a child, and I see so many similarities to hospital childbirth, and sexual assault.
Think about it.
A woman giving birth in the hospital, and someone being assaulted have all these things in common:
~Freedom is taken away
~They are often told that they are defective, bad, or belittled
~They are often told (or it is implied)that it is thier fault it is happening
~Their personal areas are violated
~They are often cut, (or tear)
~They do not have control of what is happening
And although both sexual assault and hospital childbirth can be committed by a woman, it is most often a man who does it.

There are many more, I just can't think of them this early in the morning.
It is horrific what society thinks is Okay and normal.

I hope that you can heal from this experience, and that eveything goes better for you in the future.

~Moose

 

[paxye]

oh... wow... I am so sorry that happened to you...

I have to go to see an OB too to get a simular type of letter and I am terrified to do so... I am still waiting on the answer about of a letter from my chiro will be ok... I would do everything not to go to the OB...

 

[BirthkeepinSister]

So sorry you had to go through that! He made you bleed? I can't believe having a doctor make a women bleed, is considered 'safe' and UP's aren't!

You don't have to do that again with your next birth, like you think. What you do, is go to your county's free health clinic. The kind that see's patients for all kinds of reasons on a sliding free scale, and only charges you $10 a visit. In Colorado they were called the Boulder County Health Center, in NC, they were called the Buncombe County Health Center. They are associated with the government, so play dumb and don't tell them about your plans to UC. I did this in both states and they both did things the same way.

You go in during open hours, they call you back, hand you a cup to pee in, then you wait in the waiting room again, they call you back, tell you that you are indeed pregnant, ask you when your last period was, tell you how far along you are, talk about nutrition, give you pamphlets, and a couple papers that state that you are pregnant and have had a positive pregnancy test at their clinic. You never get into a gown or anything like that. From there point of view, you are there to pee in a cup, and get the paper saying you are pregnant in order to apply for Medicaid, and get sent home with the medicaid application. You won't be hassled to do a pap smear that day. They will simply say that if you want to use them for your prenatal care, they can make an appt for one before you are approved for Medicaid, but that if you choose a different establishment that takes Medicaid, you'll have to wait to get approved in the mail before they'll see you. The paper confirming your pregnancy is for the Medicaid people, but you can use it to get a birth certificate too!

You don't even have to apply for Medicaid or ever call them again and they'll just think you went with someone else, they won't even remember you.

 

[ComaWhite]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kungfumoose I was a victim of molestation as a child, and I see so many similarities to hospital childbirth, and sexual assault. Think about it. A woman giving birth in the hospital, and someone being assaulted have all these things in common: ~Freedom is taken away ~They are often told that they are defective, bad, or belittled ~They are often told (or it is implied)that it is thier fault it is happening ~Their personal areas are violated ~They are often cut, (or tear) ~They do not have control of what is happening And although both sexual assault and hospital childbirth can be committed by a woman, it is most often a man who does it. ~Moose

And yes that is a very good comparison, its the same types of feelings.

Thanks for the suggestion BirthkeepinSister, but in Canada you need a note from either a dr. or midwife to register a birth certificate. We have health centers here, but they are run by nurses that unfortunetly don't have that kind of power. When dd was a day old (a uc birth) I called the local heath unit to get a lactation nurse to come and help me get dd latch and she wasnt allowed to come see me until dd had been seen by a dr. first.

 

[paxye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrea but in Canada you need a note from either a dr. or midwife to register a birth certificate.

I just just found out that I don't need to go get that letter... I am in Quebec and I finally found people that are informed about it all and it seems that the letter (here anyways) is often said to be needed but by law it is not needed and you don't have to give it

...
May I ask what province you are in?

 

[ComaWhite]

Alberta. It took me 3 months of hell to register my dd who I DID have a note with, I cant imagine what Id go through to get one w/o.
Vital Statistics has a new package that they mail you for registering uc births and it states that you have to have a letter from a dr. or a midwife that saw you during the pregnancy and confirmed a live birth afterwards.
I know of a lady who did not have the letter and I believe her son was 8 months old and she was still fighting (maye still is? I dont know if/how it was ever resolved) with vital statistics to get him a birth certificate because she had no proof that he existed/was hers and they were concerned about identity fraud I guess.
I'm sure it would be possible to eventually get it registered, but Id be trading one headache for another, kwim?
How are/were you able to do it in Quebec w/o the letter? Maybe I could look into that for the next pg.

 

[unitytree]

I can sooo understand the nasty doctor thing. Its so hard when doc's abuse their *power* and try to belittle us and our ability to choose....whats with the must do internal??!! um...no, I think not!! Why do they need that to confirm pregnancy?? I'm so sorry for your experience....

I have been having anxiety attacks awaiting a doc appointment that I had made. My last doc, while she was very *nice*, was so energetically judgmental that I left feeling nausious and....I don't even know....very angry. It took 2 visits before I fianlly decided to UP. I ended up making an appoinment to see a different doc because I wanted to confirm that we we/weren't having twins. It was odd 'cause he was the first male doc I'd seen in years, but I was shocked and surprised at his supportive attitude. He didn't even touch me or suggest that he touch me. He was okay with me going home and thinking it over before I saw him in a *prenatal visit* kinda way. No internal, no pressure into tests I don't feel I need. I am sooo relieved that there is a least 1 good doc in this town, not so much for me but for all the women who birth here. There aren't options in a little town like this, no midwife...its hospital of UC....UC for me thanks!!!

 

[paxye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrea How are/were you able to do it in Quebec w/o the letter? Maybe I could look into that for the next pg.

Well, it seems that all you have to do is call the Civil Status office after the birth and say that you had an unassisted childbirth and that you would like the form for "declaration solonelle" It seems that it is better to talk to a superior right away because many of the people that work there don't know the law about UC...
Anyways... they ask you to write a letter stating that you gave birth to a boy/girl, where and when etc and include home address, and then when they get the letter this will send you the form... you fill out the form which is a form that has nothing but the names of the parents, the place, date and time that the baby was born and who "caught" the baby and a witness to the declaration (not the birth)

By law they do not need a letter with proof of pregnancy and they don't need a letter from a doctor that sees the baby after either...

Here is what the law says about declaring a birth in Quebec:

Accoucheur in the terms of the civil code means: a doctor, a nurse, or anyone else that assisted the mom during the birth

Acts of birth

111. The accoucheur draws up an attestation of birth.

An attestation states the place, date and time of birth, the sex of the child, and the name and domicile of the mother.

1991, c. 64, a. 111.

112. The accoucheur transmits a copy of the attestation to those who are required to declare the birth; he transmits without delay another copy of the attestation to the registrar of civil status, together with the declaration of birth of the child, unless it cannot be transmitted immediately.

1991, c. 64, a. 112.

113. The declaration of birth of a child is made by the father and mother, or by either of them, to the registrar of civil status within 30 days, before a witness, who signs it.

1991, c. 64, a. 113.

http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gou...CCQ/CCQ_A.html

anyways... I just joined up on an e-mail list of moms that have had a UC in Quebec and this is all what they have done and none of them have had problems, however, it seems that you have to seek out the right people at the civil status office..

 

[paxye]

I found the laws for your province here...

http://www.qp.gov.ab.ca/documents/acts/V04.CFM

 

[littleteapot]

Pax - do you know how to find the laws in BC? I'm from there and have never heard of this... I've just heard that you either leave "Attendant" blank or put in your husband's name and they won't question it. A bunch of people did it that way over the last few years.

Andrea, I'm so sorry you went through that.

 

[paxye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleteapot Pax - do you know how to find the laws in BC? I'm from there and have never heard of this... I've just heard that you either leave "Attendant" blank or put in your husband's name and they won't question it. A bunch of people did it that way over the last few years.

Here are the laws for BC...

http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/stat/V/96479_01.htm

this is simular to the law we have in Quebec:

"(2) If no medical practitioner or midwife attends at a birth, the nurse or other person who attends must give notice of the birth."

ETA: If it works the way that you do it though then great!!! Here in Quebec you really need that self-declaration form...
I just wanted to get away from needing a letter...

In your laws it is not stated for what I saw so you probably don't need it... in the Alberta law it seems to say that the director has the right to seek more information.. which may be where the letter is brought in...

 

[ComaWhite]

I am just reading through the paperwork that Vital statistics sent me with my birth registration package again, and it states that the director will refuse any birth registration that does not have
a-proof of residence,
b-proof of pregnancy and
c-proof of live birth.
"Class A proof" is considered a letter from a dr or midwife and can be used alone to register a birth.
"Class B prof" is considered letters from additional care providers, friends and neighbors and is all under the discretion of the director as to whether it is acceptable or sufficient enough and you also have to prove why you could not obtain a medical document.

So it looks like it actually CAN be done w/o a dr/midwife, but not w/o difficulty.

: I wish I would have read through this a little more carefully, but I probably would have decided to go to a dr. anyways, just because it makes the process so much easier.

Why is it so difficult for women birth without being raped by the system?

The gov. needs to keep its grubby hands out of women's uteruses.

:

 

[shell024]

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrea Why is it so difficult for women birth without being raped by the system? The gov. needs to keep its grubby hands out of women's uteruses. :

I second that!!!!!

:

 

[passionatepreggers]

And I third that, Andrea!!

 

[dantesmama]

Just a question, how do you find out the requirements for getting a birth certificate in the States?

 

[Intertwined]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dantesmama Just a question, how do you find out the requirements for getting a birth certificate in the States?

Call your local vital statistics office. It varies from state to state. I need to call today actually.

 

[accountclosed3]

1. i also agree that much of ob/gyn care is abusive and may lead to women having PTSD that is being diagnosed as 'baby blues' or 'PPD.' one of my clients, a direct-entry midwife, said that she sees the most amazing unnecessary, and therefore abusive, procedures on women every day in hospitals all over the world. She's very pro-UC!

2. for birth certificate purposes, it is a good idea to make a clear record. I agree that you should go to a free clinic to see a doctor/NP and get your blood work done. This should suffice as a 'note from doctor/midwife' that you are, indeed, pregnant.

with this, you should also keep good records of all of your UP care--that is, your self care. take photographs of you throughout your pregnancy to demonstrate that you were, indeed, pregnant.

when you give birth, have someone take a few pictures of you giving birth (clearly showing your face, your body, and the baby actually coming out). Or, have a video taken.

if you do not want to do this, i suggest getting a DNA test of you and your baby to 'proove' that you are biologically related.

a lot of the reason why it can be difficult to register or get a BC for a baby is because the state doesn't want people stealing babies, etc, and passing them off as their own. This is why they require verification that you were pregnant from an independent third party (doctor). if you can verify on the 'back end' that you did have that baby--through photo, video, or DNA (swab) test--then that shuold be more than enough to 'proove' who the mother is.

anyway, just some thoughts.

 

[ecstaticmama]

I'm sorry you had to go through that, Andrea

I know what it feels like to be violated, and there really is nothing worse.

It occurred to me while reading this post and a lot of the responses that I've never felt violated while having a pelvic exam or breast exam. It's probably due to conditioning...believing that this is good for me and it's just another body part so if I can get my ears examined then why not my vagina? I think that if you get an idea of how something is supposed to be then even if it's the most horrible thing in the world you still won't see anything wrong with it.

Even now, I can't say I'd feel violated if I were to have another pelvic exam done but I'm more aware of the fact that it's simply not right. Just because I can make myself relax doesn't mean it's okay for someone to do that. I'm very aware of how I wouldn't feel comfortable giving birth in a hospital, but that is mainly due to feeling restrained. I'd much rather be able to get up and do whatever I want rather than have someone tell me what I can and cannot do.

I've read a lot of posts in UC communities, and the subject of violation comes up a lot. I understand where you all are coming from, but it makes me wonder if these strong feelings of violation could also be coming from past sexual trauma? When someone enters our sacred space no matter if we have given them permission or not this can trigger past trauma that oftentimes we don't even know existed. I'm not saying it's not normal to feel violated while having one of these exams, but the level of distress I've witnessed from a lot of women in these communities seems to me to be a bit high. Just food for thought...