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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A lot of people say "just for the lurkers" when they clarify a vaccine-related matter. But how much do we really influence them?

I'm skeptical that we're a go-to source for people seeking vaccine information. But I'm interested in hearing what others think.

I had intended to add a poll but can't get the feature to work. So let's just discuss the matter. :)
 
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I was a lurker for a long time. I researched vaccines from all corners of the internet and part of my search led me to these forums. I did read links and articles and studies that were posted here, but it was the information I gathered from hundreds of other places that led me to my decision. The reason I stayed here was because it wasn't filled with trolls and their "I hope your kids die from polio, you moron!" behaviour.

I still read everything here, as well as the information posted by the pro side. It hasn't swayed me from my decision, because anyone who would only use these forums as the reason to vaccinate or not vaccinate their kids hasn't done enough research.
 

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I'm active on this site, but only lurk in the vaccine section. Like the PP, I've made my choice based on a number of factors, and my decision hasn't changed. However, my feelings on the matter are less black and white than they once were and I feel like I've gained perspective by lurking here. I'm horrified by the comments I see on Facebook when the issue comes up, and I hope others will start to see this as a complex, rather than all or nothing, right or wrong issue.
 

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Mostly lurker-sometimes poster here! I lurk everyday, and read all the new posts in the I'm Not Vaccinating, Selective/Delayed, Vaccinating on Schedule, and the Vaccine Discussion threads.
I hope it influences lurkers to acknowledge the complexity of the subject. I've never been able to have discussions IRL about vaccines that are anything like the discussions that take place in this forum. IRL, the argument is always about MMR and autism, herd immunity, etc. (the usual). I wish all discussions on vaccines took place at the level that they do here. I enjoy reading the back and forth ideas between pro/non/delay/selective. So stimulating, regardless of what "side" you're on. I only wish I could eloquently put my thoughts into words so I could participate more. :)
 

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Semi-lurker here. My research into vaccines started when my DD was 4ish, and I learned the basics to know that I didn't want to continue to vaccinate her (she was fully vaccinated until 18mo + 2nd MMR). I had become very ill after her birth, and realizing that vaccines that I had received before becoming pregnant (Hep B) and while pregnant (flu) had a lot to do with my illnesses (as well as WAY too many antibiotics), not to mention the damage I believe happened to her from being vaccinated. But I really delved into the subject when pregnant with my DS 8 years ago (when I lurked and then joined after he was born). I really appreciated the information, discussions and links that I found here (and let's face it, the forum was A LOT different back then). I read this forum every day.


So, in effect, this forum did have a large impact on helping me more deeply understand WHY I decided not to vaccinate myself or my children, and gave me the science and data to back my decision.
 

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But I really delved into the subject when pregnant with my DS 8 years ago (when I lurked and then joined after he was born). I really appreciated the information, discussions and links that I found here (and let's face it, the forum was A LOT different back then). I read this forum every day.
How long ago are you talking, when you say "the forum was A LOT different back then"?
 
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How long ago are you talking, when you say "the forum was A LOT different back then"?
I think she was saying about 8 years ago when she was pregnant. That was before there were different forums for nonvax, delayed, or vacciinating on schedule and there was just one forum. It was different. Honestly, this forum, when I joined 9 or so years ago gave me the courage to follow what my instinct was telling me with the links and resources to back it up. The discourse is helpful, except when it gets nasty. MT posted a lot, and honestly, it was because of her and the people who have been here a long time and have been around the block a few times who helped me through the fear of not vaccinating anymore. I stopped vaccinating out of fear and figured I could always get them. I continue to not vaccinate my children, not out of fear, but out of a place of deeper wisdom that has been passed down to me through my "mothers" here.

I mostly lurked with the occasional question, as it takes me a long time to put into words what I am really thinking, especially about such a complex topic and decisions that could be deterimental either way.

In any case, I was able to feel less like an outcast (a role I have now become familiar and at ease with) with logical reasons for why I was doing what I was doing. My daughter had a reaction, although symptomatically transient over the course of 6 months, I don't want her going through it again and who knows... most likely her immune system is skewed in ways we don't know. Nor will we ever know. The research just isn't there looking at long term post vaccine immune function.

So I am here every day, sometimes to really look for resources or answers. Other times it is an escape from the vitriol spewed from those who are blind to seeing any way that could possible be different from their way of thinking.

To answer your question, this forum had a tremendous influence on me and helped me to find other resources to make an educated decision as well a raising some very important theological questions, but that is another story for another day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the replies, and thanks to the lurkers for de-lurking. I stand corrected.

I do think that it's presumptuous to think that we're somehow saying the Magic Bullet thing to convince people to vaccinate on schedule or question vaccines. Or that we're all here putting on a performance for lurkers.

It's true that MDC's (relative amount of) civility is unique. People can tune out the nasty noise of poorly moderated blog comments and read through some astute discussions.
 

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Thanks for the replies, and thanks to the lurkers for de-lurking. I stand corrected.

I do think that it's presumptuous to think that we're somehow saying the Magic Bullet thing to convince people to vaccinate on schedule or question vaccines. Or that we're all here putting on a performance for lurkers.

It's true that MDC's (relative amount of) civility is unique. People can tune out the nasty noise of poorly moderated blog comments and read through some astute discussions.
Just because I missed this thread before for some reason: I have received a private message from a lurker thanking me for my posts, etc. It kept me on this forum at a low point, when I was just about to leave.

No one is going to say the Magic Bullet thing to convince lurkers or anyone else, but presumably we all write things for some purpose. Whatever that purpose is, I think it's reasonable to think about it with respect to both lurkers and active posters. Especially since the lurkers are probably more likely to be on the fence about things than the active posters. (Speaking for myself, at least, I tend to lurk in forums where I don't have strong and well-formed opinions.)
 

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I have received several PM's over the past year plus from those who do not wish to post.

There seems to be a recurring them to most PM's - many feel that certain posters on one side are PAID and some have been reading those posts for a very long time too. I know many of us who do post see "patterns" and I can tell you the lurkers certainly do too!
 

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I have received several PM's over the past year plus from those who do not wish to post.

There seems to be a recurring them to most PM's - many feel that certain posters on one side are PAID and some have been reading those posts for a very long time too. I know many of us who do post see "patterns" and I can tell you the lurkers certainly do too!
You say stuff like this from time to time and often accuse members of being affiliated with groups they have denied being affiliated with. Do you have proof of your claims or are you just making it up because clearly no one would be pro-vax without being paid?
 

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You say stuff like this from time to time and often accuse members of being affiliated with groups they have denied being affiliated with. Do you have proof of your claims or are you just making it up because clearly no one would be pro-vax without being paid?
I don't think this forum is a setting where it would be worth paying someone to comment.

I think there are situations where people are paid by PR firms to put up comments. Not a whole lot of situations, however.

On the other hand, I do have a sense that some commenters here are rather extreme in their approach (on both sides) and wonder where they are coming from and why they behave in a way that strikes me as quite odd.

But the inside of other people is a always a "black box" and that problem is massively enlarged when we only know people via online exchanges.

My behavior may very well strike some people as odd!
 
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You say stuff like this from time to time and often accuse members of being affiliated with groups they have denied being affiliated with. Do you have proof of your claims or are you just making it up because clearly no one would be pro-vax without being paid?
Didn't you read what I wrote?

Please re-read it!

Other too have seen a pattern here, not me alone.

You would be extremely mistake if you thought I would publicly state things I DO know here & to a PROvaccer too! NO way!
 

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Didn't you read what I wrote?

Please re-read it!

Other too have seen a pattern here, not me alone.

You would be extremely mistake if you thought I would publicly state things I DO know here & to a PROvaccer too! NO way!
Yeah *you say* others have said something. All I see is you making accusations with nothing to back it up. If you can't prove it, it means nothing.
 

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I don't think this forum is a setting where it would be worth paying someone to comment.

I think there are situations where people are paid by PR firms to put up comments. Not a whole lot of situations, however.

On the other hand, I do have a sense that some commenters here are rather extreme in their approach (on both sides) and wonder where they are coming from and why they behave in a way that strikes me as quite odd.

But the inside of other people is a always a "black box" and that problem is massively enlarged when we only know people via online exchanges.

My behavior may very well strike some people as odd!
Exactly. I mean if someone knows where I could get paid to post in a mothering forum, please let me know because I could use some cash. ;)

I have seen posts in another forum (trolls with wooden spoons) which imply that serenbat and mirzam are actually pro vaxers being paid to post here to make people think the anti/non-vax side is crazy to drive people to the pro-vax side. It's just as ridiculous as thinking pro-vaxers are paid to comment here. I think we should all just take people at face value until *proven* otherwise.
 
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I'm pretty sure there are PR firms that occasionally do a blitz of comments on major news stories, particularly news stories involving vaccine injury or programs involving vaccine injuries. In a context like that it would be worth the expense to bury or intimidate vaccine critics especially vaccine critics with believable stories of problems following vaccination.

But I also suspect that the pay is pretty close to what people get paid for working phone banks for selling junk or doing fund-raising (terrible) and the work is boring.

The problem with Mothering is that we have real conversations going and the moderating makes it impossible to drown out the vaccine critical voices.

All that said, I'm sure there are some people who would love to see these discussions shut down. At the moment, vaccines are supposed to equal "war to the death" and having reasonably polite conversations on the topic among people who disagree undermines the game. It is sort of like having Palestinians and Israelis chatting with each other. Even with heavy moderating, this shouldn't be possible. Where are we failing!?
 

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I'm pretty sure there are PR firms that occasionally do a blitz of comments on major news stories, particularly news stories involving vaccine injury or programs involving vaccine injuries. In a context like that it would be worth the expense to bury or intimidate vaccine critics especially vaccine critics with believable stories of problems following vaccination.

But I also suspect that the pay is pretty close to what people get paid for working phone banks for selling junk or doing fund-raising (terrible) and the work is boring.

The problem with Mothering is that we have real conversations going and the moderating makes it impossible to drown out the vaccine critical voices.

All that said, I'm sure there are some people who would love to see these discussions shut down. At the moment, vaccines are supposed to equal "war to the death" and having reasonably polite conversations on the topic among people who disagree undermines the game. It is sort of like having Palestinians and Israelis chatting with each other. Even with heavy moderating, this shouldn't be possible. Where are we failing!?
I think it's that many of the posters who are on here a lot aren't looking to have a "discussion", they're looking to have an argument. I do think that good info gets shared, however. Watching these discussions over the past year or two has led me to look at different things and look at things differently. :)
 

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I think it's that many of the posters who are on here a lot aren't looking to have a "discussion", they're looking to have an argument. I do think that good info gets shared. Watching these discussions over the past year or two has led me to look at different things and look at things differently. :)
True, but as arguments go they aren't too crazed. Today I was looking at a discussion in the comments section of a vaccine article on Forbes. The people know each other pretty well but it was a very unpleasant, even cruel series of exchanges. Not at all necessary for it to be nasty in that way, but it has become established that vaccine discussions have that sort of tone--except for here--where our arguments only occasionally descend to namecalling and personal attacks.

As I said, the nastiness is what I think is wanted in the public discussions of vaccines and what goes on here is an extreme outlier.
 

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True, but as arguments go they aren't too crazed. Today I was looking at a discussion in the comments section of a vaccine article on Forbes. The people know each other pretty well but it was a very unpleasant, even cruel series of exchanges. Not at all necessary for it to be nasty in that way, but it has become established that vaccine discussions have that sort of tone--except for here--where our arguments only occasionally descend to namecalling and personal attacks.

As I said, the nastiness is what I think is wanted in the public discussions of vaccines and what goes on here is an extreme outlier.
I don't think we have all out hate screaming fests here...what we have instead is more underhanded. Snark, sarcasm, etc.

But yes you're right, what goes on in here is not like comment sections on articles where I suspect actual paid commenters post.
 
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