[happybunny]

I just got a BFP and now I am freaking out about CLO and too much Vitamin A during pregnancy. I have been following WAPF principles for almost 2 years.
I am still taking 1 tsp of high-vitamin CLO daily. It's about 13,000 IU. Conventional wisdom says not to take more than 10,000 IU.

How much Vitamin A did or do you guys take whilst pregnant?
What was the outcome?

I just don't know what to believe and since I am eating for two now I want to be extra careful.

Christine

 

[Bri'sgirl]

I had this same thought. After thinking I was pregnant for two weeks, I started freaking out about the Carlson's Super 1000 CLO I was taking, and then felt guilty thinking maybe I caused an early m/c cause I was taking too much.

Anyone?

 

[melamama]

I will have to check on this, but I'm pretty sure conventional wisdom and the rda's aren't basing the numbers on good quality clo.
I will find the link and post it, but the regular vitamin A that the rda's are based on is palmitate +/ beta carotene and I think the way that form of vitamin A is used ends up being different than the way your body utilizes the clo.
I trust WAPF principles more than the rda's.
I take a high quality clo 2x a day and it ends up being around 2400.

 

[happybunny]

Melamama,

do you take 2400 IU, or did you mean 24,000 IU? I am just worried about birth defects. I am really into WAPF and I have read their articles on the subject, but for some reason I am freaking out now. WAPF recommends 50,000 IU from all food sources a day. It just seems like a huge amount!

 

[melamama]

sorry, 10,000 (pregnancy brain)

here is the WAPF article on vitamin A and pregnancy.

Regardless you need to do what makes you not freak out.

 

[happybunny]

Thank you Melamama!

I'd still like to hear some more takes on Vit. A.
Did anybody take more than 20,000 IU? What was the outcome?

 

[dogmom327]

So obviously this is just my personal opinion, experience, etc...

I didn't take CLO (or BO) in early pregnancy because the thought made me gag (well actually eating anything made me gag). I should have though because I had my vitamin D levels tested a few months ago and they are really low (and we live in the land of no sun for most of the year). So maybe at 14 weeks or so I started taking it again. I have the Blue Ice CLO/BO combo. I take 4 ml. each day which is 20,000iu Vitamin A and 2,000iu Vitamin D. I've confirmed with my naturopath that this is acceptable for me to do.

Personally rather than dosage, I am much more concerned with whether the vitamin A and D are in synthetic or natural form. That's why I spend the extra money on Blue Ice/Green Pastures.

 

[guestmama9916]

I've been taking 15,000 - 20,000 IU of vit A a day since getting my BFP. I haven't croaked yet.

I take the Blue Ice Gold kind so it has the BO in it which equates to 3 to 4 capsules a day. With DD I only took 5-10,000 a day because I was unaware of the 20,000 IU/day recommendation. Once morning sickness kicked in though I was unable to tolerate pretty much any pill. So far so good this time even though morning sickness showed up 3 weeks earlier.

 

[melamama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogmom327 So obviously this is just my personal opinion, experience, etc... I didn't take CLO (or BO) in early pregnancy because the thought made me gag (well actually eating anything made me gag). I should have though because I had my vitamin D levels tested a few months ago and they are really low (and we live in the land of no sun for most of the year). So maybe at 14 weeks or so I started taking it again. I have the Blue Ice CLO/BO combo. I take 4 ml. each day which is 20,000iu Vitamin A and 2,000iu Vitamin D. I've confirmed with my naturopath that this is acceptable for me to do. Personally rather than dosage, I am much more concerned with whether the vitamin A and D are in synthetic or natural form. That's why I spend the extra money on Blue Ice/Green Pastures.

I agree that the big thing is paying attention that you are getting adequate vit D. I think the issues with too much vit A were actually related to not enough vitamin D.

Another giant vitamin D issue (for me) was that my 2nd and 3rd child had enamel issues on their teeth, which I think we've traced to my D levels being too low during my pg. When I got my blood test at the very beginning of this pg I had my vitamin D levels checked, and I keep an eye on it.

I also love the Blue Ice.

 

[MyLilPwny]

I trust WAPF's recommendations on Vitamin A too and if I remember correctly, they say that the harmful effects of too much vitamin A are only applicable to synthetic vitamin A, not the real vitamin A found in cod liver oil, and the evidence for this is Price's research on all the traditional cultures eating lots of fat soluble vitamins and producing healthy children generation after generation.

For my next pregnancy, I plan to take WAPF's recommended amount of high vitamin cod liver oil for pregnant women (I get mine from Raidant Life). For my first pregnancy, I wasn't into doing cod liver oil yet. I instead took Krill Oil, which I got from mercola.com, which does have some vitamin A, but not nearly as much as cod liver oil, and then when I later on realized the importance of Vitamin A, I got worried that I didn't get enough during my pregnancy. I'm especially concerned about my daughter's eye sight and the role Vitamin A will play in it, because although my eye sight is perfect, my husband has terrible eye sight and we're betting that its not genetic but due to the fact that his mom was vegan when pregnant and breast feeding him so she did not have Vitamin A in her diet, which caused his eyes to develop abnormally.

 

[witchypants]

Well vitamin A comes it two forms: retinol and beta carotene. Retinol in amount above 5,000IU can increase the risk of birth defects. Beta carotene (the form of vitamin A found in food sources & some supplements) can be taken in unlimited quantities. Hope that helps answer your question. If not, feel free to ask more!!!!

 

[happybunny]

I get my CLO from Radiant Life as well. It's very high quality. I've heard about the synthetic/natural Vitamin A issue. I just read so much about Vit. A toxicity that I don't know who to trust anymore.
At this point I am taking 13,000 IU of Vit. A and 1,000 of Vit. D. I also take 2600 IU of beta carotene (it's in my prenatal). I eat eggs and drink raw milk daily, and eat meat several times a week, so I should be getting some more from that, too.
I guess I really have to do what makes me not freak out. Stress probably isn't great when you're pg

 

[MyLilPwny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by witchypants Well vitamin A comes it two forms: retinol and beta carotene. Retinol in amount above 5,000IU can increase the risk of birth defects. Beta carotene (the form of vitamin A found in food sources & some supplements) can be taken in unlimited quantities. Hope that helps answer your question. If not, feel free to ask more!!!!

What is the source for that? WAPF gives conflicting info. WAPF says:

"The scientific term for vitamin A is retinol, because of its presence in the retina of the eye."

"Under optimal conditions, humans can indeed convert carotenes to vitamin A...But the transformation of carotene to retinol is rarely optimal. Diabetics and those with poor thyroid function, a group that could well include at least half the adult US population, cannot make the conversion. Children make the conversion very poorly and infants not at all - they must obtain their precious stores of vitamin A from animal fats..."

"Some vegetable oils contain carotenes but they do not contain true vitamin A. Only animal fats contain vitamin A and vitamin A is present in large amounts only when the animals have a source of carotenes or vitamin A in the diet, such as green pasture, insects and fish meal."

And then when referring to the study that is supposedly claiming that vitamin A causes birth defects, WAPF says: "Pure retinol is added to many fabricated foods like margarine, breakfast cereals and pizza. The study made no distinction between those women whose vitamin A was supplied by whole animal foods and those who ingested retinol added to margarine, white flour and extruded breakfast cereals-foods which contain many other factors that can cause birth defects. Natural vitamin A provided by liver, eggs, butter, cream and cod liver oil is well recognized as providing excellent protection against birth defects."

Furthermore, WAPF says: "A study carried out in Rome, Italy found no congenital malformations among 120 infants exposed to more than 50,000 IU of vitamin A per day.16 A study from Switzerland looked at blood levels of vitamin A in pregnant women and found that a dose of 30,000 IU per day resulted in blood levels that had no association with birth defects"

Large doses of natural vitamin A from animal fats are safe according to those European studies. Here is the link to the above info: http://westonaprice.org/basicnutriti...aminasaga.html

 

[Koalamom]

I am pregnant, and I take HVCLO everyday. I take almost 20,000 a day. I sat almost because i just our it onto a spoon, and don't measure very carefully. It is around 2 tsp. I am feeling so great this pregnancy, and have so much energy, unlike with my daughter several years ago. I did take twinlab during that time, and very little. She does have beautiful teeth though.
We will see in several months when I have this baby, but my midwife says it seems healthy as can be!!

 

[witchypants]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThereseReich What is the source for that?

What does WAPF stand for btw? I've been wondering that for a while.

Here are my sources: From "Eating for Pregnancy" by Catherine Jones with Rose Ann Hudson - "Pregnant women require 800 international units (IU) of vitamin A daily. Excessive intake of vitamin A (more than 5000 IU in the form of retinol, not beta carotene) can increase the risk of birth defects, such as malformation of the head, brain, heart, or spinal cord. There is much concern about consuming too much liver, which is extremely rich in vitamin A, during pregnancy. Pregnant women should minimize their consumption of liver, if not eliminate it entirely from their diets. Fruit and vegetable sources of vitamin A, such as mango, cantaloupe, tangerines, sweet potatoes, carrots, broccoli, asparagus, are not toxic in large doses. They contain beta carotene, which the body converts to vitamin A based on need."

And from 'Your Vegetarian Pregnancy' by Dr. Holly Roberts, D.O. FACOG - "The vitamin A you obtain from fruits and vegetables is different from the form derived from animal sources and cannot cause fetal abnormalities...
The two forms of vitamin A are beta-carotene and retinol.Beta carotene is the form of vitamin A present in yellow and orange fruits and vegetables, as well as green leafy vegetables. Retinol is the form of vitamin A found in animal sources. Beta carotene, or pro-vitamin A, is converted to fully formed vitamin A within the intestines. Excess beta-carotene can cause yellowing of your skin but cannot cause any serious health problems. Excess ingetion of fruits or vegetables containing vitamin A does notcasue fetal abnormalities.
Retinol, or fully formed vitamin A is derived from animal sources such as liver, fish oil, eggs, and dairy products. It is the only form of vitamin A in which an excess can cause toxicity and fetal abnormalities. This form of the vitamin is used to manufacture many vitamin A tablets. Excess ingestion of these vitamin tablets can also cause fetal abnormalities.
Vitamin A is a fat-soluble vitamin ; therefore it can be stored in the liver, fat tissues, and kidneys for months. More than 25,000 IU of vitamin A is considered excessive. An excess of vitamin A in the range of 25,000-50,000IU daily can result in significant birth defects affecting baby's bones, urinary tract health, and brain. The baby may also delvelop cardiovascular anomalies, small eyes, cleft lip and palate, mental retardation, and malformation of the features of its face.
The RDA for vitamin A is 800 micrograms or 5000IU daily. During your pregnancy the recommendation is unchanged. If you plan to nurse, your recommended dose will be increased to 8,125 IU daily."

I have a couple of other sources as well...but leant those books out so I can't quote from them - sorry.

 

[witchypants]

BTW, I'm not trying to say that my sources are correct and yours aren't. Admitedly "Your Vegetarian Pregnancy' is NOT my favorite nutrition book. I think the thing with vitamin A is to read up on as much as you can then ultimately do what feels most right for you and your body. But that's just my $0.02!

 

[tanyalynn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by witchypants BTW, I'm not trying to say that my sources are correct and yours aren't. Admitedly "Your Vegetarian Pregnancy' is NOT my favorite nutrition book. I think the thing with vitamin A is to read up on as much as you can then ultimately do what feels most right for you and your body. But that's just my $0.02!

WAPF stands for the Weston A Price Foundation, a group that's trying to make the nutritional findings of Weston A Price (who lived in the early 20th century, so he was long gone before the Foundation was established) accessible and interpret it for modern US life.

The basic finding of Price's work is that healthy groups of people, who were not consuming modern convenience foods (refined flour, sugar, etc) ate a TON more preformed fat soluble vitamins than most groups, and they had almost no dental decay, they had perfectly formed dental arches (instead of arched palates or overbites or crowded teeth) and their health, in general, was quite good (given oftentimes no access to emergency medical care, which is sometimes necessary).

The commonality he found between different groups of people, on different continents, was high vitamin A consumption (pre-formed, from animal products), dietary vitamin D consumption (in addition to more time spent in the sun) and another fat-soluble vitamin that he could measure in some limited ways, that seems to be vitamin K2, also found in animal fats (not in plants). These people also consumed a lot more minerals than us, but the difference in fat-soluble vitamins was 10x the current diet of the day (1930s US).

Price wrote a great book, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, that I think is a great read (in terms of info, it's a bit hard to get through in places, and the language is somewhat archaic). It also has great pictures that show kids' faces become progressively narrower and more pinched the more pregnancies mom has, in societies that ate the modern low-nutrient foods, whereas this didn't happen in the groups that followed the high fat-soluble vitamin diet.

This is fundamental to Price's findings, and that's why the discussion develops, because particularly the vitamin A issue is in direct conflict to the conventional dietary advice given to pregnant women in the US, so it's a cause of some stress and it does take personal research into the topic.

 

[witchypants]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez WAPF stands for the Weston A Price Foundation, a group that's trying to make the nutritional findings of Weston A Price (who lived in the early 20th century, so he was long gone before the Foundation was established) accessible and interpret it for modern US life. This is fundamental to Price's findings, and that's why the discussion develops, because particularly the vitamin A issue is in direct conflict to the conventional dietary advice given to pregnant women in the US, so it's a cause of some stress and it does take personal research into the topic.

OMG!!! You are so awesome girl! I truly can't thank you enough for taking the time to give such a detailed response! I love learning new things and am obviously not family with WAPF prior to this so thank you so much! I'll have to check out that book for sure! I actually love reading dense researchy type stuff so I'm sure I'll find it to be a good read as well. I like lots of books many might consider 'dry'. Anyway, thanks again for helping me to lessen my ignorance!

 

[BetsyPage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by witchypants OMG!!! You are so awesome girl! I truly can't thank you enough for taking the time to give such a detailed response! I love learning new things and am obviously not family with WAPF prior to this so thank you so much! I'll have to check out that book for sure! I actually love reading dense researchy type stuff so I'm sure I'll find it to be a good read as well. I like lots of books many might consider 'dry'. Anyway, thanks again for helping me to lessen my ignorance!

If you want to learn more, also check out the Traditional Foods subforum here... lots of info there, it's where discussions about WAPF etc typically take place here. I've learned a lot.

 

[BetsyPage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetsyPage If you want to learn more, also check out the Traditional Foods subforum here... lots of info there, it's where discussions about WAPF etc typically take place here. I've learned a lot.

was this always in this forum, lol? doh!