[Allium]

Hi Mamas,

This is a very long post, and I really hope you can bear with me and provide some advice.

My very close friend, whom I've known for nearly five years, is in the middle of a spending crisis and I don't know how or even if I should help.

She wanted to be a SAHM (both myself and our other good friend are SAHMs) but due to finances and insurance, she had to go back to work full time after maternity leave.

About six months ago she discovered cloth diapering and fell in love with a very expensive brand of diapers. These diapers run her about $35.00 each. Since discovering these diapers, she has joined online discussion groups surrounding these diapers and has purchased over 100 of them. Most of these purchases have gone on a credit card. She also purchases expensive custom made clothes for her baby as well. She makes purchases almost daily while at work and spends most of her time at work online looking at diapers tor talking to her online group.

She has started lying to her DH about her purchases and has her purchases shipped to her work so her DH won't find out. She tells her DH that she trades for these diapers and re-sells them, which she doesn't.

She is to the point where is lies to her friends about her shopping and refuses to accept that she is living beyond her means. Both myself and our other friend think that she feels guilty about bring at work all day and has embraced this community of cloth diapering mothers as a way to make herself feel better.

She is in incredible credit card debt and is now lying to her friends and family about her spending. I love my friend dearly and do not know what I can do to help her. She wants to be a SAHM, but if she keeps building this debt, she'll never be able to leave work.

I have tried to set a good example and have completely stopped talking about shopping and try not to go shopping with her. It has not helped. I also wonder if she has reached out to an online community because myself and our other friend have somehow failed her.

Thank you so much for reading, and I would really appreciate some guidance or advice. Should I do nothing at all??

 

[velochic]

I honestly think that one's finances are their personal business. Unless she comes to you for help, I would keep my nose out of it. JMHO.

 

[fek&fuzz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by velochic I honestly think that one's finances are their personal business. Unless she comes to you for help, I would keep my nose out of it. JMHO.

Yeah, I think so, too.

But, you seem to know a lot about her habits while at work so maybe she has already shared a lot of information with you. When she tells you what she is spending and how she is buying the diapers, and how much time she is spending on line - does it seem like she is asking for help? or is she just casually mentioning it?

 

[A&A]

I'd stay out of it.

 

[dubfam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fek&fuzz Yeah, I think so, too. But, you seem to know a lot about her habits while at work so maybe she has already shared a lot of information with you. When she tells you what she is spending and how she is buying the diapers, and how much time she is spending on line - does it seem like she is asking for help? or is she just casually mentioning it?

It sounds like this is more like a compulsive shopping issue than a finances issue. I see this type of shopping to be similar to drug addiction or a gambling problem. I would normally say stay out of other ppl's finances, but I think your friend really needs some help right now!! This goes so much further than making poor $ choices, yk?

I am sorry that you are having to watch you friend suffer this way

 

[Natsuki]

I would talk to her directly and let her know that she has crossed the line into addiction - and I would also consider letting her husband know. What one spouse does financially affects the other and if he is being actively lied to and other people know and aren't telling him I don't think that's right. She may need some sort of intervention.

 

[Jenelle]

I wouldn't touch that with a 10-ft. pole. It is between her and her dh. Change the subject whenever it comes up if it bothers you. I don't think there's anything wrong with subtle hints... but there is no way I would have a full-out confrontation about this. Don't take responsibility for her ability to be a SAHM. If she really had a plan to make this happen, she wouldn't be buying $35.00 cloth diapers.

 

[Staceyy]

She sounds bi-polar to me. Sometimes hormones (especially after having a baby) can trigger something like this. I've seen those diapers, they're cute, but they're not that cute! I hate to say it, but maybe an intervention is necessary.

 

[dubfam]

are they the goodmama diapers?

That name is AWFUL...like it's saying if you buy their $35 fitted diap it makes you a good mom

sheesh I can't believe those cost so much!!

 

[freespirited]

Hi, my relative has a shopping/spending disorder. She is able to squander away any amount of money in record time and have very little to show for it. I did recently help her sell of some of the stuff she'd accumulated, but she just took the money and bought more stuff. I have had conversations with her, confrontations actually, about her self-destructive behavior, and it IS self-destructive when you sell your elderly mother's house for 350k, buy another one for 150k and blow through the remaining 200k on nothing, end up getting your car repossessed and your house foreclosed on. Yes, she owned the house outright but in order to feed her addiction took out a heloc against the home knowing she would not be able to make the payments once her elderly mother died (which she did last year). So this woman has gone from having money that many of us will never see in our lifetime, to near homelessness and drives around a 30 year old beater car. My conclusion after observing this disgusting behavior for years now? There is NOTHING you can do about it. Sorry, but this addiction is nearly impossible to beat. It would make overcoming alcoholism and drug addiction look like a walk in the park. She will have to suffer the consequences of her actions, and it may destroy her marriage, but your well-meaning intervention would likely only make her resentful and do nothing to help. My relative was very resentful that I gave her a piece of my mind about the whole thing even though I told her I was saying it because I cared about her and didn't want to see her end up homeless. They are adults, they are smart and they know better, but they are sick to varying degrees and they can't be helped. My relative is on 400 mg of Zoloft a day, so medication does NOT help, if you ask me.

So my advice is just to stay out of it unless you want to destroy your friendship. There is nothing you can do, and someday she'll have very bad credit and won't be getting any more credit cards. That will help a little, but sometimes they get very creative about getting more cash. It's just a no-win situation. Sorry to be such a bummer.

 

[SleeplessMommy]

I would let the husband know. There is a chance that therapy plus restricted access to credit plus medication could fix the spending problem. Her husband would have to be the one to initiate all of that. Bipolar is sounding likely.

Of course, there is also the chance that if you tell her husband, he will start the divorce process immediately. But what will happen in 6 mo or a year when he finds out about the lying over $3500 in cloth diapers and some designer baby clothing? Same thing.

If you tell her husband, you may loose the friend but you will have done the only thing you can to try to help her with her serious mental illness. You will also allow her husband to protect himself (and her daughter's college fund) from the shopping problem. If you don't tell her husband, you will get to see many ugly things as she "hits bottom" and looses everything. In the long term, you loose the friend also with this option.

I looked at the web site. And really, would you work 2 to 4 hours to buy a diaper for your kid to poop on?

 

[sanguine_speed]

My first question is how do you know what you know?

Is she telling you this? Are you spying on her? Are you making assumptions?

I really don't think it's your place to tell the husband anything, especially if this is hearsay or just information you've gathered on assumptions.

 

[1growingsprout]

Stay out of it. Family finances or personal finances are no ones business but the owners. What she does or doesnt do with money is between her, her husband and her bank.

 

[DBZ]

Compulsive spending to that degree is just as bad as alcoholism and other addictions. I have a friend with this problem. She is bipolar. I don't stay out of it, but I don't get on her case either. She is trying to work on her spending though so there is a difference. When she got credit cards without her DH knowing I gently encouraged her to tell him but I wouldn't tell him myself. That would be a breech of trust. If getting new credit cards continued to be an issue though I might have said something to him. This type of problem can easily ruin a marriage.

Maybe Debtors Anonymous has a group in your area. Give her some information about DA or compulsive spending. It will help plant a seed. After that you pretty much have to wait and see. Only she can make a desicion to change. If she is bipolar, there will be a crash coming and she'll need the support of a friend.

 

[Allium]

Thanks so much for all of your feedback. I really appreciate it.

Both myself and my DH have spoken to her husband, but he is completely buying her stories and won't believe that she is lying.

A previous post asked how I know about all of this. She tells me about a lot of her purchases. She also talks to our other close friend, and the friend and I compare notes. She and I are also part of a mutual group where she posts frequently about her diaper stash. And I see this friend all the time and ask about her recent purchases.

She recently told me that if her employer knew how much time she was online, she would be immediately fired. But she keeps doing it.

I was recently at her house and needed to change DD's diaper. I went into a room and saw buckets and buckets of brand new diapers and other stuff. She is even collecting fabric and yarn, although she does not sew or knit. When I asked her about it, her only response was that I wasn't supposed to see that. She also told me that while she buys all this stuff for her child, she won't let her child wear much of it for fear of it being ruined.

So after reading all of the posts and talking to my other close friend, I have decided that unless I want to loose her as a friend, right now there is nothing I can do. I have decided to completely refrain from discussing anything that has to do with spending money and instead focus on talking about what I am doing to save money. But from what everyone on here is saying, I really doubt this is going to help at all. I keep reminding myself that she is an adult. I'll just be sure to be there for her when things start to fall apart. It just breaks my heart to see her like this. Before she went back to work, she was so frugal and financially-savvy.

 

[SleeplessMommy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allium Both myself and my DH have spoken to her husband, but he is completely buying her stories and won't believe that she is lying.

If you have told her husband, what else can you do?

Buying dipes and not letting them be worn is a very bad sign. So is the yarn without knitting

 

[Poddi]

Get her interested into selling those diapers.

Boredom and depression make a lot of people use buying things as entertainment. I spent my last two years' pocket money on hair sticks. Then I discovered that there are two many to fit into my dresser so I sold a lot of them. What do you know, selling and seeing payments made me just as happy.

Get her into the decluttering mode and start converting clutter into cash. You never know, she might like it enough to start a home business or something.

A few people I know benefited a lot by volunteering in shelters and soup kitchens. Some learned frugal ways by going to third world countries and see how little people live on. Discover better ways to use her time and obsession would be my top recommendation.