[LuxPerpetua]

This is something I've been trying to wrap my heart and mind around for a while. We, as a family, deeply believe in gentle discipline, not only as a choice but as a human right. I have seen, on occasion, children being verbally shamed and spanked in public. This is so disturbing. I've wondered if I should say anything if at all, and if so, at what point? I'm afraid of making things worse or overstepping my bounds, but at the same time, if I substitute "woman" for "child" (as in a husband emotionally and physically abusing his wife in public) I know that I would intervene, so why am I so reticent in the case of a far more defenseless child? How would you react to a situation in which a child is being verbally abused and/or spanked?

 

[GoBecGo]

I ask the mother if i can help at all unless there are a bunch of adults with her already in which case, so far, i do nothing. If i have my own DD with me i do nothing except remove her from their proximity. Usually when i see mothers shouting or spanking it's because the kid is acting out and they're at the end of their rope and me helping pick up the dropped toy, get the toddler into the shopping cart seat, put the groceries into the car trunk, etc. make the difference between screaming and spanking and deep sighs and recovery of composure. I have literally never see anyone use spanking as the tool those who defend it say it can be - calm discipline that teaches.

FWIW i wouldn't get involved with a couple unless it was to call the police, and the same goes for a kid suffering violence. I have a friend who once stepped between a man and the woman he was beating on and the WOMAN stabbed her in the arm with a switchblade.

 

[MtBikeLover]

While I would love to be like GoBecGo and help out the mom that is abusing or berating her child, I just can't. It makes me so angry to see that kind of treatment and my anger takes over. I need to work on this so I can be more compassionate and more gentle in my approach because I always intervene or say something when I see this going on.

We were at a restaurant at Disney and I went outside to grab something out of the stroller. I saw a mom being really aggressive with her son. Then I saw her lift his shirt and slap him hard in the belly (he was 12-14 months old). I ran over to her and told her to stop hitting her child. She told me to stay out of it so I went and got security. Then she tried to apologize to me when she realized that I had gotten security and I told her that it was her son she needed to apologize to. When she came over to me, the baby's shirt was up in the back from the way she was holding him and he had bruises all over his back. And his belly was still red from being slapped. The police came and then we left.

I was really glad I did call security because it was obvious this child had been hit before.

 

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

How I react is definitely colored by whether I am alone or have kids with me. If the kids are there, my first responsiblity is to my children. It sucks to have to choose, but I feel my job is to protect mine first, so we hustle away so they aren't exposed to things I don't want them to have to deal with. Honestly, I have the same reaction with mentally ill homeless, publicly drunk, or spousal abuse. If I can figure out how to help once my kids are safely out of earshot (which mostly means via cellphone), then I will do that. The unfortunately reality is that spanking is legal, so calling law enforcement isn't going to do anything. Sometimes security will help if its a disturbance at a place like an amusement park.

If I am on my own, I might try to gently offer help or a difusing comment, assuming it seemed safe to do so.

 

[mrsfrenchy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MtBikeLover We were at a restaurant at Disney and I went outside to grab something out of the stroller. I saw a mom being really aggressive with her son. Then I saw her lift his shirt and slap him hard in the belly (he was 12-14 months old). I ran over to her and told her to stop hitting her child. She told me to stay out of it so I went and got security. Then she tried to apologize to me when she realized that I had gotten security and I told her that it was her son she needed to apologize to. When she came over to me, the baby's shirt was up in the back from the way she was holding him and he had bruises all over his back. And his belly was still red from being slapped. The police came and then we left. I was really glad I did call security because it was obvious this child had been hit before.

this breaks my heart.

I just can't even imagine doing that to a child or where someone would get the idea that it was ok.

 

[Ruthla]

I usually stay out of it.- but I also want to qualify that I've never witnessed any actual public abuse. I've seen "bad parenting" but nothing bad enough to want to involve the authorities. There's a difference between "abuse" and "discipline that isn't gentle."

If it's bad enough that I think it's a violent crime, I'd pull out my cell phone and call 911. If I think it's "bad parenting" I usually stay out of it. I'm afraid of making the mom feel defensive and angrier, and taking it out on the kids. Besides, I'd fear for my own safety if somebody was that violent. I'd never interfere with violence between adults either, for the same reasons- either I'd call in authorities or stay out of it completely.

But that's only if somebody seems out of control already and sending off "leave me alone" vibes. I'm usually smiling at a cute baby or toddler I see in a store. I'll often throw overwhelmed moms a "I've been there" smile, and/or interact with a toddler or preschooler who's being uncooperative. That's simply how I interact with strangers in stores, period.

 

[Lindsay1234]

This is tough. I worked at family place and saw tons of spankings and yellings but Ive only intervened a couple times, when the kid was in danger. Im against spanking BUT when the parent took it to far I either yelled out the window of my office "Hey! Thats enough!" or I went over and asked the mom if she needed a minute and took her kid into the office to play.

As for the couples fighting, NEVER get involved, call the cops. My DH tried to break up a drunken couple fight at a bar a few months ago, where the guy was hitting his gf and SHE jumped on my DHs back when he was holding down her bf on the ground and stabbed DH with her keys!!

:

I absolutely agree with every other poster here too.

 

[sisteeesmama]

I struggle so much with this!
I also happen to notice a lot of these incidents happening.

The other day at Target I was in the little girls section browsing for dd and the only other person in the section was another young mom. Her DS ran over to her from who knows where excitedly chattering about something he had seen and out of nowhere she yelled, "SHUT THE F UP!" and I was SHOCKED! I shouldn't be anymore, though, with the things I have seen.

One time I was at a thrift store and seriously saw a mom whack her child with a clothes hanger. My eyes filled up with hot tears and I have never felt so mad at someone I didn't know, I was so hot I had to leave immediately. I had an intense feeling of wanting to hurt that woman.

The other really bad time was at walmart. I had seen this woman in the store a few times. She was just being so absurd with her precious DD I honestly had a fleeting wish that I could kidnap her! The woman at one point was dragging the little girl by her hand. The littl girl had done nothing to provoke any of the stuff I saw. In the parking lot was the last straw for me, though. We ended being parked very close to the woman and I heard her yell "Get in the f-ing car, now! and I looked in time to see her yank the dd and smack her right in back really hard and when the dd started to cry the mom told her to "shut up"....the little girl was like 2! It made me depressed all day

I just hate that kind of stuff SO MUCH.

 

[mama_mojo]

I lost it one time in public, and as embarrassed as I would have been, I would still have kissed the feet of the mother who came and held the baby or pushed the bike or just offered an understanding smile, so I could be compassionate with my other two children. I was not hitting, but I was raising my voice and dragging DS along. Sometimes, when we lose it, we just need to know we're not alone, that there are witnesses. I don't mean like, "We're watching you," but like, "We see you and understand." Does that make sense? Mothering is hard and sometimes, we just don't do it as well as we would like. If we can feel compassion for these parents who are suffering, maybe we can smooth the way a bit for them.

 

[Super Glue Mommy]

I only speak up when I see a child being hit. I would hope if someone say me hitting my child in public they would say something to stop me. I never want to hit my child, and while that might be embarassing, in the long run me and my child would be thankful.

Also, while it probably wont stop the abuse to speak up, it will send the message to the child that how they are being treated is not acceptable or okay - what a huge impact that can have on the child and their future children.

 

[chaoticzenmom]

I followed a woman and her son into the mcdonald's bathroom once. She ridiculed him for awhile and then dragged him to the bathroom, so I followed her and just pretended to have to pee so that he wouldn't be alone in the bathroom. When she continued to berate him and seemed to be waiting for me to leave I told her that she seemed really stressed and asked if she had any help or needed anything. I didn't leave the bathroom until she did. That poor kid did nothing other than hesitate to put on his shoes so that they could leave the play area. In addition to that, her own mother or mil was berating him over her shoulder along with the mother....apple doesn't fall very far

I did call the police last spring when I heard my neighbors beating their son with a belt. Nothing came of that as far as I know, but at least they know that neighbors don't approve.

 

[Jade's Mom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthla I've seen "bad parenting" but nothing bad enough to want to involve the authorities. There's a difference between "abuse" and "discipline that isn't gentle." If it's bad enough that I think it's a violent crime, I'd pull out my cell phone and call 911. If I think it's "bad parenting" I usually stay out of it.

Me too, but I always feel guilty when I don't speak up and wonder if I should have. I haven't figured out where the line is on this one, either. Part of me wants to intervene, part of me feels it's inappropriate to tell another person how to parent their kids (I'm talking about bad/not-gentle parenting, not abuse. For that I would DEFINITELY call the police, the same way I do when I see a toddler not moving freely in a car rather than in a carseat). I don't need other parents telling me how to raise my child and I want to give that respect to other parents, even as I'm pained in my belief that their parenting is not healthy for the child.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy Also, while it probably wont stop the abuse to speak up, it will send the message to the child that how they are being treated is not acceptable or okay - what a huge impact that can have on the child and their future children.

This is what I was going to say. I think sending the message to the kids that what there parent is doing is very valuable (at least I hope it is). If I'm not in a position for whatever reason to say something to the parent, I will try to make eye-contact with the child and give a look of empathy/support.

 

[Super Glue Mommy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama I struggle so much with this! I also happen to notice a lot of these incidents happening. The other day at Target I was in the little girls section browsing for dd and the only other person in the section was another young mom. Her DS ran over to her from who knows where excitedly chattering about something he had seen and out of nowhere she yelled, "SHUT THE F UP!" and I was SHOCKED! I shouldn't be anymore, though, with the things I have seen. One time I was at a thrift store and seriously saw a mom whack her child with a clothes hanger. My eyes filled up with hot tears and I have never felt so mad at someone I didn't know, I was so hot I had to leave immediately. I had an intense feeling of wanting to hurt that woman. The other really bad time was at walmart. I had seen this woman in the store a few times. She was just being so absurd with her precious DD I honestly had a fleeting wish that I could kidnap her! The woman at one point was dragging the little girl by her hand. The littl girl had done nothing to provoke any of the stuff I saw. In the parking lot was the last straw for me, though. We ended being parked very close to the woman and I heard her yell "Get in the f-ing car, now! and I looked in time to see her yank the dd and smack her right in back really hard and when the dd started to cry the mom told her to "shut up"....the little girl was like 2! It made me depressed all day I just hate that kind of stuff SO MUCH.

I agree, I hate that kind of think so much too, and I also witness it too often. I mean at all is too often, but its scary when its this frequent!

 

[momasana]

My DH witness a child being beaten by his mother/caregiver and immediately ran over to stop her. He said it was difficult because if it had been two adults he would have physically intervened but because it was an adult and a child he froze up and was afraid to touch them. I know he struggled trying to process this because it seems so opposite of how one would expect to react in that situation.
Fortunately he got into enough of a verbal spat with the woman that she stopped hurting the child to focus on yelling at DH, but then they all jumped in a car and sped off. He called the police and they were looking for the car, but we don't know what happened after that.

I do not know how I would react in that situation. I I had DS with me I am sure I would do everything possible to protect him from witnessing it and would try to get him out of the vicinity, but I would definitely call the police right away.

 

[Smithie]

If there isn't a way for me to intervene positively, I stay completely out of it unless I think 911 is warranted (which has not happened to me yet).

I actually differ with PPs in that I don't want to shield my own kids from the incident - I want them to see me intervene positively, and talk later about how that mommy was really angry, and lost her temper and hurt like you sometimes do with each other, and Mommy tried to help her just like she tries to help you etc.

I have lost control and gotten physical/yelled with my kids before, and while I regret it and try very hard not to do it, they do seem to understand that those incidents do not mean a lifetime of fear and insecurity. So they don't get too worked up when they see another adult lose it in public and spank or holler at their child. Of course, they have never seen or experienced (the legal definition of) abuse - they have no concept of that and I'm sure they'll be deeply disturbed when they do learn about it - which will probably be that time I wind up calling 911

 

[frontierpsych]

I have witnessed it one time. I was too stunned to say anything. I was in my car at the time looking for a parking spot by the liquor store and a kid who looked in the 10-12 range was arguing with his mother and she was grabbing at him leading him to the car. His dad came out of the store and his mom said something to him, then he took off his belt and started hitting the kid.

Having been spanked as a kid, it was SO much worse in public, especially when you're that age. I was never *beaten* as a kid, or physically abused (in the legal sense, anyway) but I remember one time we were in the car and I apparently did something wrong to cause my dad to pull over to the side of the road, pull my pants and underwear down and spank me. I was 11.

 

[St. Margaret]

We don't have a lot of this type of parenting around here, at least not in public. People will say HARSH things to their kids, shaming and fear-mongering statements... but I try to just let go because unless we're getting to know each other, I figure I'm not going to change them into Alfie Kohn devotees. But if I ever see a child being hit, I will do something. It would depend on the situation, but offer to help (and then say something), say something, call security (thank goodness you did, MtBkLover, perhaps that was what got the family some help, some training in less physical parenting techniques...). I would hate to cause the kid MORE anger and harm once the family was home, but I'm not going to just stand by and watch and pretend it's not happening.

 

[sarahope]

This is such a tough issue. I really appreciate all the suggestions here.

 

[krystyn33]

There are some wonderful articles about intervening on behalf of a child here:
http://www.naturalchild.org/articles..._advocacy.html

I think the biggest challenge for me would be getting a grip on my own feelings enough to respond calmly in a way that wouldn't exacerbate the situation.

These stories make me terribly sad.

Going to give my little guy a big hug now...

 

[PlayaMama]

i think lots of our problems in america are due to what is considered "acceptable" parenting.

i had a neighbor that frequently yelled at and hit her children (spanking the 1 yo

), when they came over i made sure to mention things like, we don't spank here. or we're polite to each other.

just so they knew it wasn't normal. they moved away and i still hope they remember my house.