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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9454821/n...tions-may-prevent-heart-disease/#.V0ZXfuTRjh6

It looks to me, based on this research, there could be some benefits to childhood illnesses. Of course it is just preliminary.

Childhood contagious diseases were more frequent in the controls, researchers noted. Furthermore, they found a consistent trend between the number of childhood infections and the reduction in coronary risk. For instance, having two childhood viral infections reduced the coronary risk by 40 percent; four infections was associated with a 60-percent decreased risk; and six infections lowered the risk by 90 percent.
 

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Yes.

There is evidence that mumps can help prevent ovarian cancer in later life.

There were studies using the measles virus to treat cancer before the vaccine, wasn't there?

We are losing the possible benefit of a short round of viral infections during childhood in favor of chronic disease. There is plenty of evidence that these viral diseases are more easily tolerated in generally healthy children than in adults.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes.

There is evidence that mumps can help prevent ovarian cancer in later life.

There were studies using the measles virus to treat cancer before the vaccine, wasn't there?

We are losing the possible benefit of a short round of viral infections during childhood in favor of chronic disease. There is plenty of evidence that these viral diseases are more easily tolerated in generally healthy children than in adults.
No, no, no! Much better to come up with a complex, expensive and possibly dangerous way of providing the same sort of stimulation of the childhood immune system rather than allowing children to simply go through a few fevers and rashes as kids. Because we all know that childhood illnesses are deadly...
 

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Odd indeed, and what did follow-up studies show? Since this was merely a preliminary finding. And where is the link to the study? The only thing I found by that author in 2005 appears to have come to the opposite conclusion: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16188762/?i=368&from=pesonen

There is mounting evidence from both human studies and animal experiments that infectious pathogens could be implicated in atherosclerosis development. The vulnerability of the arterial wall to the adverse effects of infection is probably augmented when additional risk factors and/or certain proatherogenic genetic profiles are also present. The precise mechanisms whereby infection, alone or in synergy with conventional cardiovascular risk factors, could contribute to atherosclerosis are not fully understood.

CONCLUSION: Injury to the vascular endothelium, which could be elicited by infection through inflammatory, metabolic, autoimmune, and pathogen-related mechanisms, might be a central link between infection and early atherosclerosis.
 

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From your first link:

Measles vaccination is compulsory in Singapore
Fourteen of the children were aged between one and six years and had missed their MMR vaccination, while the remaining three were at the age of one and had received only one dose of the vaccination.
So how can fourteen children not have had the vaccine if it is compulsory in Singapore?
 

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Samaxtics: I guess it depends on the definition of compulsory.

In the US, it can be said that vaccines are are compulsory; vaccines are compulsory unless a parent files an exemption following the laws of the state the family lives in.

Semantics!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Odd indeed, and what did follow-up studies show? Since this was merely a preliminary finding. And where is the link to the study? The only thing I found by that author in 2005 appears to have come to the opposite conclusion: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16188762/?i=368&from=pesonen
I didn't claim that this was conclusive! The link you provide sounds as though it is discussing adult illnesses.

In my experience, feverish illness in childhood is quite different from feverish illness in adulthood.

Anyway, I'll keep my eyes open for more on this and post anything I find.
 

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I didn't claim that this was conclusive! The link you provide sounds as though it is discussing adult illnesses.

In my experience, feverish illness in childhood is quite different from feverish illness in adulthood.

Anyway, I'll keep my eyes open for more on this and post anything I find.
What makes you think they are discussing adult illnesses?

Abstract
Although clinical manifestations of atherosclerotic coronary heart disease occur in adult life, the initial stages of its development commence in childhood. Therefore, elucidating the pathogenesis of early atherosclerosis and identifying the network of risk factors have become fundamental priorities for both cardiovascular healthcare providers and scientists. There is mounting evidence from both human studies and animal experiments that infectious pathogens could be implicated in atherosclerosis development.
Again, this study appears to be coming to the exact opposite conclusion of the link in your OP and is by the same author. Very odd indeed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Dug around, found a whole bunch of studies, started putting up links and quotes and then hit the wrong key and lost it all.

Will try again tomorrow.

However, there is published evidence that blocking normal childhood illnesses does increase the risk of heart disease. The illnesses that increase the risk of heart disease, on the other hand, are mostly not connected to vaccines.

Stay tuned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
This clarifies the situation a good bit. Not final, but definitely leaning towards a benefit from childhood illnesses. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16780845

The subjects answered a questionnaire about their childhood contagious diseases: varicella, scarlet fever, measles, rubella, mononucleosis and mumps. Blood samples were taken for bacterial and viral serology. The odds ratio for CHD was highest in the upper quartile of the enterovirus (EV), herpes simplex virus (HSV) and Chlamydia pneumoniae HSP60 IgG antibody titers (1.86, p=0.001, 1.57, p<0.048 and 1.70, p=0.016, respectively). The antibody titers increased cumulatively the risk for CHD (odds ratios 1.89, 2.24, 3.92 and p-values <0.001, 0.001 and 0.047). Childhood contagious diseases (n=6) had a protecting effect against CHD (odds ratio 0.86, p=0.013). The risk for acute coronary events decreased significantly with increasing number of childhood contagious diseases (p=0.007).
So certain infections increase the risk and others decrease it. Polio is an enterovirus--the other two don't yet have a vaccine available. Since there are many other enteroviruses, being vaxed against polio may not help. There is something odd about the enterovirus piece, as human beings have had these viruses in their digestive systems for a fairly long time, but CHD at current levels is something new.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
A general pointer on the possible role of illness. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16188762

This one points to acute infections during childhood as part of the problem. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12643884 This is the same one you found @teacozy . It is 2005 and the one above about the protective effects of certain childhood illnesses is from 2007. So in terms of "later" research, it looks like the benefits of childhood illnesses are ahead at this point. Of course neither of us has done a comprehensive literature search, so don't take that statement seriously, ok?

This last article seems to be mainly about infectious illness incidents in adults http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19773293
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Some general points--

problems with mass vaccination solutions to childhood illnesses can take many years to show up and may or may not be recognized.

there may be many bits and pieces showing problems with the vaccine program buried in that big mass of "vaccine science" on which the "consensus" rests. Unless someone does a thorough analysis of all the data, we could be missing a whole bunch of important information.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Bumping this up in case some people missed it the first time around.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Bumping this up again for new people.

Interesting thread, interesting topic.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I wanted to address the possible benefits of childhood illnesses from another angle. http://www.tuiheightshealth.co.nz/did-you-know/child-health/benefits-of-illness/

Steiner considered childhood illnesses to be milestones in spiritual and emotional development. His view was that they help the child process and excrete unwanted matter from its system. As the child’s Ego (self) matures, it is more able to discern what belongs in its body and what doesn’t, and through the process of excretion via the skin, it proceeds to eliminate the non-self from the self (this activity is generally considered a function of the immune system). According to Philip Incao, MD, an anthroposophic physician in Denver, CO, if we suppress or avoid simple excretory illnesses (colds, measles, chicken pox) through vaccines, antibiotics, or other medications, the child’s immune activity of cleansing and organizing is thwarted; then the matter that is supposed to be discharged is pushed back into the system, where it lingers and festers, causing worse (chronic) illness to develop later. Thus, minor illness is beneficial and should be allowed to run its course.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
It seems as though using bacterial vaccines creates some of the same issues as the overuse of antibiotics. http://www.nature.com/news/early-exposure-to-germs-has-lasting-benefits-1.10294

The study supports the 'hygiene hypothesis', which contends that such auto-immune diseases are more common in the developed world where the prevalence of antibiotics and antibacterials reduce children’s exposure to microbes.
“We as a species are not exposed to the same germs that we were exposed to in the past,” says study co-author Dennis Kasper, a microbiologist at Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts.
The researchers induced two groups of mice — germ-free (GF) mice, which are raised in a sterile environment, and specific-pathogen-free mice raised under normal laboratory conditions — to develop forms of asthma or ulcerative colitis. GF mice had more iNKT cells in their lungs and developed more severe disease symptoms, indicating that exposure to microbes was somehow influencing iNKT cell levels and making the GF mice more susceptible to inflammatory diseases.
The study also found that a lack of exposure in early life could not be compensated for by introducing the GF mice to a broader range of microbes in adulthood.
Despite the best efforts of modern medicine, there are a lot of sick children nowadays. It doesn't seem unreasonable to question whether modern medicine really understands the long-term outcomes of using vaccines, drugs, pesticides, herbicides, etc.
 
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