[SoggyGranolaMomma]

Here is an example of why I suck.

I realize that I need to be swift and consistent with my teachings.

I believe strongly in natural consequences.

This is a current ongoing battle.

We eat dinner, child sits at the table to eat. Then gets up to play and then comes back to eat. Back and forth.

"Please come to the table and eat. See? We are all eating at the table. That's what people do at meal time. They sit together and eat. Let's talk about your day."

Child continues to get up and return. Frustration mounts.

"Please come back to the table and eat. If you don't finish, I think you are done and I will clean up your plate."

Child continues to ignore me and play.

I pick up the plate and rinse it off. "Ok, I guess you are done. No treats later."

Dinner is complete, cleaned up. Before bed child asks for something to eat. In order to follow through on what I've said, I cannot give the child food. Even if I know they muts be hungry. The child cries and wails and my heart breaks for them, but I can't give in because then they will believe 2 things, I can play at dinner and I don't have to finish my dinner and I will get what I want.

Argh! It doesn't FEEL right to do this, but I don't know what else to do! I know not all kids like everything and I'm not about the "eat everything or your plate or else" so if they truly don't like it, I'll ask them to take 3 bites or 4 bites (however old they are) and be done. If they don't MIND what they are eating but are distracted by play, do I wrap it up and serve it later?

I have to keep some sort of order and routine to MY day because I have so much to do and coordinate. How much autonomy do you give a preschooler?!?!

 

[Ruthla]

What would you do if your child DID finish his/her dinner but was still hungry for a snack before bed?

Personally, I offer healthy snacks at bedtime regardless of what happened with dinner. Why can't "no treats" mean that instead of "treats" the child needs to eat fresh fruit, cheese, or yogurt?

Maybe try making a routine where the kids clean up their toys before dinner, and (maybe) have to stay at the table until everybody's finished eating, even if they're done. Maybe that would reduce the distractions enough for them to eat better?

 

[mamaduck]

I tell my kids that they are finished with dinner when they leave the table, but they are always welcome to snacks when they feel hungry later. Not sure its worth the stress of making it a big deal. Does it hurt anything to give access to healthy snacks? Does it matter if they eat yogurt at 8 instead of spagetti at 6? I think it probably doesn't. I understand that a mama of five can't spend her day standing in the kitchen taking short orders. But there are plenty of foods a preschooler can get for him/herself.

This is a struggle that parents create, imo. Many little kids just feel better when they can "graze." They only eat when they feel hungry, and they only eat enough to feel satisfied. These inclinations are built in and perfectly healthy.

 

[SoggyGranolaMomma]

I guess there is really no harm in giving them healthy snacks.

They would eay yogurt and frozen fruit until the cows came home.

They graze CONSTANTLY, but I guess if they didn't graze so much maybe they would eat more substantially at a meal?

Not that they need 3 squares or anything, but seriously, CONSTANT eating. One thing after another ALL day! I have them eat at the table and I do have to serve most of their snacks (the yogurt is in a big container, the fruit bag is really heavy) there isn't much "self serve" around here.

Ideally I would like them to have a breakfast-snack-lunch-snack-dinner-snack sort of thing happening.

I dunno. I don't want to fight over food with them, so not completing meals is one thing I could not worry about, but seriously, the all day constant eating? Is that really something your kids do?

 

[captain crunchy]

Okay the title of the post is "how would you handle this" so here goes:

We don't make mealtimes or food a battle at all. Our daughter eats what she wants, when she wants, and how much she wants ---I am usually agreeable in accomodating her within reason-- in other words, I am not agreeable to cooking 5 seperate dinners but I will get out fruit/yogurt/toast/cheese/vegetable slices (whatever) all day long --

She can choose to eat with us or not -- I would rather have a happy baby playing than a child forced to sit and eat -- sometimes she sits with us,sometimes not.

As far as eating all day long, our daughter pretty much grazes throughout the day. It is usually a little bit at a time here and there...

I personally would NOT impose consequences for not eating at the table. Not eating before bed is an imposed consequence and therefor a punishment for not eating at the time and place you determined. A natural consequence would be there is ONLY X amount of food in the whole entire house at X time, when it is gone, there is no.more.food. so if you don't get while the gettin's good you'll go hungry.

Knowing there is food in the house and that you could get your child an easy snack with little effort on your part if they are hungry, then refusing it because they didn't eat at said time at said place is a punishment and I fear will set up food issues in the future.

Children are people and should be afforded (imo) the same rights regarding their body and the signals their body gives them. I mean, if any of us were to wake up at 10pm, 4am, 7am (whateveR) and were hungry, we would think nothing of getting a little snack regardless of where and what we ate the night before. Children should have that right.

I would just let the food battles go. Seriously, it is not worth it, it is their body, they know best when they are hungry, how much they want to eat, and we should let them determine who they want to eat with too. Is it really that big a deal?

No one is suggesting you should cook 15 different meals and be a short order cook all day long -- but you said your children love fruit and yogurt and I am assuming other very easy meals or snacks you could just whip up in a minute or two --- some people make snack trays for their children every morning so their children can graze throughout the day (simple things like veggie sticks/dip/apples/cheese cubes -- stuff they already have in the house anyway but it prevents getting out the vegetable sticks 5 times a day and the children can help themselves)

Good luck to you

 

[SoggyGranolaMomma]

I agree that they are people and I recognize that they might be hungry or not and various times of the day, but they also don't have any self control.

If I were to put a plate of grapes out say, they would eat the whole thing is 2 mins flat. If I put out a whole spread with loads of variety, they'd still eat it in 2 mins. They'd either a) make themselves sick, or b) still end up hungry in 1/2 hour.

It would seem that I can't put enough food out for them. They don't always EAT it and I often times find half eaten peaches and PB sandwiches under the couch or in toy bins.

I guess while I agree to a point, *I* sit down for regular meals because it's part of a daily schedule that I follow in order to get the stuff done that needs doing. My schedules are fairly flexible, but I do need schedules. I have 20 mins of time to accomplish a task, if I prepare ahead of time and get them snacks and drinks and settle them on a craft or activity, I need to count on that time.

If 10 mins into a sewing project, they ask for another snack, I still have to get up, prepare the snack, then get drinks, then wash faces, then break up a fight, then the baby wakes up and needs to be changed and fed, so now she's up, somebody needs their butt wiped after going to the bathroom, the washing needs to be switched and my sewing is out the window.

I don't say "no!" but I will ask them to wait until I'm finished with a task, which usually they won't do, so they sit and badger me until I give in, my task isn't getting done anyway because I keep getting interupted. I mean, there is stuff I *have* to get done. That's when it becomes a problem.

I KNOW they shouldn't be scolded (at all) but in particular for interfering with MY schedule, but honestly, they do need to learn patience and understanding and respect of other people's time as well right? It just seems like I'm doing an awful lot of "respecting" of their feelings, time, and tummies and no one is respecting mine.

 

[octobermom]

As often as possible we all sit together as a family for meals, Everbody sits down and our DD 3.5 must ask permission to leave the table. We don't require her to eat everything we encourage her to try but I refuse food battles. If she gets up shes done but I do keep her plate up untill DH and I are done and were clearing the table. If she changes her mind she can come sit back down and eat. I wont keep asking her I might say once, daddy and I are almost done would you like to finish your diner before I clear the table? Between meals we have frush fruit milk and ussually a basket of home made bread or muffins free for the taking.

 

[cmb123]

You got yourself in a jam! I have found myself in that situation of feeling like you have to follow through on some threat you made or else your kids will never take you seriously for the rest of thier lives

Here's what has helped me...
- Realized that expectations lead to resentments. If I expected my toddlers to sit happily at the table and eat thier dinner (or any other unreasonable expectation) I was setting myself up for un needed stress and resentment, leading me to making empty threats, or throwing my own temper tantrum, and making a huge deal out of something dumb
- Really, really examined my motives for all of my expectations. Let go of most all of them after I realized that most of them made absolutely no sense at all, and were mostly me wanting to feel like I had some sort of control over things.
- Stopped making empty threats (or threats at all for that matter) as I knew they were usually things I didn't mean, couldn't feel right about following through with, or were things that ended up punishing me, and not them.
- If I do spew some ridiculous thing at my kids, became willing to appologize and explain to them that I was angry/ frustrated and I didn't really mean them- giving me the freedom to not feel like I then have to follow through with something just "because I said it."

 

[paxye]

I go through this with my 4yo ds and it is getting a lot better...
he almost never wants to sit down for supper... Of course we would rather he sit and eat with us but we eat when Daddy gets home and often I think he is just too excited or he is just not hungry...
Instead of making it a battle what we did was tell him that if he doesn't want to eat at supper to please come and help put his plate away in the fridge in case he is hungry later... If he eats a bit at supper then usually he won't go back to the plate but if he doesn't then he will ask for the plate before bed... We will warm it up but then we are doing other things so he eats alone which he finds boring and doesn't like much...
For us that is a Natural consequence... he is not alone really... we are just not sitting at the table... (well sometimes we do if we are free to do so but mostly not)
He has come to understand that supper time is family meal time but knows that we would never withhold food from him, however, if he wants reliable company while eating then that is when we can all do it...
Another thing that has helped is getting him more involved with making supper.. he used to not like it but now he wants to help... and he now loves setting the table too... this is something that he started all by himself and now has become his "job"... I am not sure where he picked it up from since we never set the table before...
Anyways....More and more often he has been sitting with us...

 

[mamaduck]

No, I wouldn't jump up everytime someone says they are hungry either. They can wait until I'm available or they can fix something by themselves.

Without controling when or how much they eat, there are some limits and boundries you can set to make your life more sane.

My kids eat frequently, but not constantly, unless they are bored. If I think they are eating out of boredom then I ask them to find an activity and wait 10 min. to see if they are really hungry or not.

Wasted food is not cool, and one way to cut down on that is to have designated eating places. My kids may eat at the kitchen table, the picnic table outside, or at the craft table in the family room. Typically, the combined requirements of "fix your own" and "eat at a table" are enough to prevent the random snacking/wasting habits. And they MUST put their trash in the trashcan, etc. If I start finding food in random places then eating is restricted to the kitchen for awhile.

Also, keeping snacks in resealable containers helps too. They need to cover the snack and put it away when they've had enough. They need to put their milk cup in the fridge when they've had enough. And so on.

I know its harder when they are little, but helping them to establish these habits/routines will help in the long run.

 

[maya44]

The way to solve your problem without your kids going hungry is to PLAN snacks like you plan meals.

So if there is always a healthy snack before bedtime, you know your child won't be hungry even if they didn't eat dinner.

I have no problem with saying to a child that if they are not sitting at the table and everyone else is done, I am going to assume they are done with what is on the table.

I don't take away treats though, which for us is very small (one treat from the treat jar made up of mini candies).

Then if they are hungry they are going to have to wait for the NEXT planned meal/snack.

This would be sometime before bed and your child would be offered someting from a long list of healthy sancks: Yogurt, Peanut Butter on Celery, Cheese slices and crackers, fruits and veggies.

If you only have planned snacks you won't have to be jumping up at odd times, but you can assure that your child won't be too hungry yet won't come to the dinne table already full.

My advice comes from the works of Ellyn Satter "How to get your kid to eat, but not too much"

 

[majikfaerie]

Firstly, and most importantly, I think; beware of making food into a punishment.
especially if its a nutritious snack, why withhold it as a punishment?

If you're having a hard time getting your kids all the snacks they want, then maybe you can find some way that helps them to get their own snacks. Perhaps you can put some fruit out in an easy-to reach bowl. If they eat it all "in 2 mins" like you said, then GREAT, put out some more next time. Really, you CAN'T overeat on fruit. I see you have 5 kids, so that means putting out a LOT of food, I know. But I would guess that you know, in general, how much your kids eat in an average day, so just anticipate that amount, without worrying if it fits into "mealtimes" or "snacktimes" or any kind of prerequisite "amounts".

I'm just wondering why it bothers you so much if your toddlers or preschoolers are "up and down" at mealtimes?
sitting still at the table is REALLY boring. Dont you remember being 3 or 4 and being forced to "sit quietly and eat"? I do. and honestly, the only thing it serves it to set up a resentment between parent and child. A bored child is an 'acting-up' child.

How I handle this situation is to have snacks out or easy to get at all times, I prepare meals because *I* want to eat them. I invite my dd to come to sit and eat with me, but she doesnt *have* to do it. She is free to graze and come and go as she likes. It's just the same respect that I give to my DH, or anyone else. If Dh doesnt feel like eating, I wouldn't force him to sit with me just because I said its dinnertime. he does it because he wants to, not because I force him to.

If my dd doesnt finish all her food by the time I come to clear the table, I'll clean up but leave her plate on the table, or in the fridge with the other leftovers if she wants it later.
If she doesnt want it later, but she's hungry for something else, I'll get it for her.

Sometimes *I* dont feel particularly hungry at a mealtimes. Sometimes I feel like a snack before bed, or even in the middle of the night. Sometimes I DONT feel like eating the leftovers from dinner, I'd prefer a banana or whatever. I give my dd the same right to choose what she eats as I have.

I think the bottom line is, If you feel the need to be consistent and follow through, then dont set yourself or your children rules that you know will be a pain to follow through with in the future. Especially when it comes to food.

You yourself said that "this doesnt FEEL right". If you personally need to have a regimented 3 square meals, that's great, but your kids might not have then need. and I know with 5 kids, it might seem like they are really eating constantly, but each individual child probably isnt literally eating "constantly". Your best solution to this is probably to put out enough nutritious snacks that they can graze to their hears' content without disrupting your schedule too much. and if by mealtimes theyre already full, great! At least you know they got nutritious food. And there;s no rule that says you cant serve them leftovers later as snacks

 

[DevaMajka]

Well, you asked how I'd handle the situation, and my answer is that I wouldn't make it a situation in the first place.
If ds wants to play and eat and play and eat, I have no problem with that. At all. And I'd give him a snack later if I had to pick up his plate before he was done (like if the dog took a big lick of it. lol). He usually sits with us for the majority of the time while we eat anyways. But the few times he doesn't feel like it for whatever reason, its not an issue at all.

If it really did bother me, and I really did want him to eat a meal with us THAT particular time, I'd just tell him that. Then if he still didn't want to, I'd have to realize that its my issue, and that he will sit with us next time or the time after. If its made into an issue, it may have the opposite effect on him than I was hoping for! (forcing to eat with us this time, will make him less likely to want to eat with us next time).
Having meals together is about family time, and enjoying each other, right? I don't see how a child who is forced into eating with the family is enjoying it, or contributing to other enjoying it.
Perhaps, find a time AFTER dinner to sit with your dc and talk to them. That's really what you want anyways, right? Is to just have time to connect with them.

And I'd never never never withhold food from a child. Especially a hungry child!!! And definitely not just to prove a point, that I'd follow through on my threats.
(well, I guess if he'd asked for 3 different things, and refused all of them, and I knew that they were all things that he'd like, then I might not make anything else. But if that happened, I'd know there was something else going on that needed addressed).

Also wanted to address the "just a bite" thing. My mom used to do that with us. I hated it. I remember vividly- I didn't want to try the rice (it looked gross) and she made me take a bite before I could be done. I did, and I actually liked it. But I REFUSED to eat rice again, or admit that I liked it. That was until I was...actually, until I moved out of the house, now that I think of it. (it obviously wasn't a consious effort on my part for that long).
She had made it into a power struggle, and I wasn't about to admit that she was right. (and we didn't have that type of relationship- she was a pretty good, gentle mom most of the time).
I bet if it had been offered a few times, I would have gotten curious and tried it. And I do like brown rice better than white, so I may have been more likely to try that if she had made it.

gotta go- ds is calling

 

[SoggyGranolaMomma]

You guys offered a LOT of great suggestions.

If I truly look at it, it's NOT a big deal to sit together and eat, if they are done, they don't have to stay at the table, we simply aren't that formal. I guess my only issue is that when dinner is done, it's done, so if they don't eat what they want, whether they get up and down or not, it's going into the fridge.

I just don't think it's necessary to keep a plate a food on the table indefinately right?

Honestly, the whole issue truly came up at my ILs house when they kids were up and down and they kept looking at me like "aren't you going to do something?".

I shouldn't give a crap about what they think I guess. Which mostly I don't but I take my parenting very seriously and feel inadequate most of the time anyway, so I hate having that reinforced.

So say they don't eat at Gmas and everyone goes out for ice cream afterwards. I plan to have cheese and crackers or veggies and dip before bed, but since they didn't finish eating, they don't get the treat. Do I just let them have it because it's "special" and in which case, how do I deal with the ILs who think I'm too permissive giving treats when they didn't finish dinner. I could just tell them they will have a healthy snack before bed when they get home I suppose.

I don't want to battle them about food, but I don't know if this is a food issue so much as a manners issue.

I think I will try several of the great ideas posted. Getting them more involved in making the meal and setting up for the meal, then telling them how much I would enjoy their company at meal time. The natural consequences of eating alone should they decide to eat after everyone else is finished.

Seriously, great ideas! Thanks!

 

[DevaMajka]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoggyGranolaMomma I just don't think it's necessary to keep a plate a food on the table indefinately right?

I woudn't think so. I'd do what Maya said, and after everyone is done, if there's no indication that dc still wants it, it would go in the fridge, or to the dogs depending on how messy the plate is. lol.

As for your other questions, in our family, nothing that happened the rest of the day would have anything to do with dinner. As a matter of fact, I pay very little attention to what ds eats. I try to know how much he's eaten veggies over a few day period, I try to make sure there's something filling in his tummy, and I am aware of how much he eats overall (again, in a few day period). But as to how much he eats at any given meal, I will have forgotten 5 minutes after the table is cleared.
So, I'd let him have ice cream if everyone else was having it. I'd probably try to offer something healthy before ice cream even came up though. Then I'd probably be a bit more conscious of trying to get some healthy foods into him the next day.

As far as the IL's, as long as they think you are being too permissive, you can probably take that as a compliment

lol (I do, anyways)

 

[slightly crunchy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamaduck No, I wouldn't jump up everytime someone says they are hungry either. They can wait until I'm available or they can fix something by themselves. Without controling when or how much they eat, there are some limits and boundries you can set to make your life more sane. My kids eat frequently, but not constantly, unless they are bored. If I think they are eating out of boredom then I ask them to find an activity and wait 10 min. to see if they are really hungry or not. Wasted food is not cool, and one way to cut down on that is to have designated eating places. My kids may eat at the kitchen table, the picnic table outside, or at the craft table in the family room. Typically, the combined requirements of "fix your own" and "eat at a table" are enough to prevent the random snacking/wasting habits. And they MUST put their trash in the trashcan, etc. If I start finding food in random places then eating is restricted to the kitchen for awhile. Also, keeping snacks in resealable containers helps too. They need to cover the snack and put it away when they've had enough. They need to put their milk cup in the fridge when they've had enough. And so on.

This is pretty much everything I would say.

Except with a 4 yo, I expect to remind him pretty often that I want the food to stay at the table. Not only because of random snacking, but because I am not willing to wipe up and sweep dropped food and crumbs around the house several times a day.

My 4 yo has been able to get his own snacks since before he was 3. At first, I told him he could choose anything from the bottom shelf of the fridge, which is all that he could reach. I usually have fruit and cut up veggies, or leftovers there. I still prepare snacks, too, but with other children, I think getting up every few minutes to prepare more food would be exhausting to do all day long.

I do ask him to clear his plate after meals, since he was about 2.5. He doesn't always do it, and for a while there, he would get upset when I asked him to, and insist he wasn't done yet....and we would end up with food left out on the table for hours with him insisting he was going to eat it later.

So I cleared his plate for him again for a while, and now at 4 he tells us when he is finished, gets down from the table and (usually) takes his plate to the sink. I still remind him to put food away after snacks, but we will get there some time before age 18.

We have healthy foods in the house and he pretty much eats what he wants, when he wants. He seems to really need a snack before bed, no matter how much he ate for supper. Usually it's peanut butter and fruit.

 

[sunnysideup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoggyGranolaMomma So say they don't eat at Gmas and everyone goes out for ice cream afterwards. I plan to have cheese and crackers or veggies and dip before bed, but since they didn't finish eating, they don't get the treat. Do I just let them have it because it's "special" and in which case, how do I deal with the ILs who think I'm too permissive giving treats when they didn't finish dinner. I could just tell them they will have a healthy snack before bed when they get home I suppose.

I'd let them have the ice cream. I'm like Deva33, in that I don't let what they eat at dinner effect the rest of the day at all. I do not impose punishments or give rewards for eating/not eating. If my in-laws gave me the hairy eyeball in this situation I'd just tell them that I don't think rewards or punishments are an effective tool for teaching good eating habits. I do try to teach healthy eating habits by modeling and talking.

 

[WuWei]

I haven't read all of the responses, but I saw who posted. So, I am comfortable saying I agree with them.

I do believe that "consistency" is overrated. It seems to have replaced being reasonable. It may be consistent to withhold food from a hungry child, but it isn't *reasonable*, imo.

You don't "suck", you just are focused on 'teaching a lesson' rather than working with your needs and the child's needs to find a solution which works for both of you. I am sure you received helpful suggestions.

The only other comment is if you want family meals to be joyful, don't make it a battle ground.

Pat

 

[WuWei]

Quote:

How much autonomy do you give a preschooler?!?!

Unless it is life threatening, pretty much total autonomy, with information, engagement, support and constant availability as a trusted advisor and resource.

Pat

 

[bunnybartlett]

as dd has gotten older.Now that she is 4 1/2 I do feel she is capable of eating at the table w/o getting up and down.

We have went through the whole didn't eat dinner now I am starving at bedtime routine.Then she would want one snack after another and her bedtime was getting later and later.smart kid!!

I do encourage but not force her to eat at mealtime.If she doesn't eat much there will be no dessert for her.Usually once everyone else is eating ice cream or whatever she will then eat some of her dinner.No matter what she eats at dinner we have bedtime snack....healthy of course..sometimes I heat up her dinner and she eats that.

I too have found myself preparing snack after snack all day.much of which is wasted.I agree with mamaduck that making her eat at the table limits this.Also if she doesn't finish something and half hour later says "I'm hungry!" I say go eat your whatever it is.If she says but I don't want that then too bad you are not that hungry.That is boredom or trying to get my attention off whatever I'm doing.

Hope this helps...I get really frustrated w/this and can only imagine it x5!!!

in response to the snack trays has anyone else found these to just not work because if she doesn't eat the fruit fast enough it gets yucky and goes to waste??