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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Or so says the American College of Pediatricians.

http://www.acpeds.org/the-college-s...ncerns-about-the-human-papillomavirus-vaccine

Thus a causal relationship between human papillomavirus vaccines (if not Gardasil® specifically) and ovarian dysfunction cannot be ruled out at this time.
The College is posting this statement so that individuals considering the use of human papillomavirus vaccines could be made aware of these concerns pending further action by the regulatory agencies and manufacturers. While there is no strong evidence of a causal relationship between HPV4 and ovarian dysfunction, this information should be public knowledge for physicians and patients considering these vaccines.
Bolding is mine. I wonder what this means for people living in areas that are mandating this vaccine? Should it still be required? The language used seems to indicate that there is a choice, but for some there is not.

It could be years before studies show any proof that the HPV vaccine is causing these issues in girls. Is it ethical of the government to allow mandates in light of this information?

EDIT: I should add, that I am interested in both sides of the opinion here, not whether the vaccine IS in fact causing this problem, but if you feel that the program should be made completely choice driven in this instance.
 

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this is interesting as well -per above link
Nevertheless there are legitimate concerns that should be addressed: (1) long-term ovarian function was not assessed in either the original rat safety studies3,4 or in the human vaccine trials, (2) most primary care physicians are probably unaware of a possible association between HPV4 and POF and may not consider reporting POF cases or prolonged amenorrhea (missing menstrual periods) to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), (3) potential mechanisms of action have been postulated based on autoimmune associations with the aluminum adjuvant used1 and previously documented ovarian toxicity in rats from another component, polysorbate 80,2 and (4) since licensure of Gardasil® in 2006, there have been about 213 VAERS reports (per the publicly available CDC WONDER VAERS database) involving amenorrhea, POF or premature menopause, 88% of which have been associated with Gardasil®.5
how will these concerns be addressed properly?
 

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per the link
A Vaccine Safety Datalink POF study is planned to address an association between these vaccines and POF, but it may be years before results will be determined.
in the meantime, legislation is attempting to be passed in states to mandate to blindly point, shoot, and jab this into all teens, regardless of safety concerns raised. So, how many more will be affected by the time they get around to doing and finalizing a study?
 

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What is the mechanism by which this vaccine causes ovarian dysfunction?

I discussed this with a vaccine promoter and was told that there is no way possible that Gardasil nor Ceravix would affect the reproductive tract or hormones.

Looks like some more research should have been done and more long term studies.
 
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I can't remember where I read some details of the HPV vaccine trials.
However, I do recall thinking it curious that they insisted that the trial subjects take birth control for at least the duration of the trials. Might that be to mask effects of the vaccine. :nerd:

Remember that this vaccine was fast tracked so there is a lot that could have been missed. Don't trust reassurances from the 'experts' on this one.
 

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Or so says the American College of Pediatricians.

http://www.acpeds.org/the-college-s...ncerns-about-the-human-papillomavirus-vaccine

Bolding is mine. I wonder what this means for people living in areas that are mandating this vaccine? Should it still be required? The language used seems to indicate that there is a choice, but for some there is not.

It could be years before studies show any proof that the HPV vaccine is causing these issues in girls. Is it ethical of the government to allow mandates in light of this information?

EDIT: I should add, that I am interested in both sides of the opinion here, not whether the vaccine IS in fact causing this problem, but if you feel that the program should be made completely choice driven in this instance.
Until this matter is settled, definitely no mandates. Equally important, until the matter is settled, informed consent of all recipients is essential.

Finally, if there really is an auto-immune connection, all other reports of illness following these vaccines with an auto-immune element should be reconsidered. If one major problem was missed due to "masking" in the original testing, several others could also have been missed.
 

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This is an interesting site for women about hormones: http://holyhormones.com/global-gard...nstrual-phase-may-increase-adverse-reactions/

Every cycling woman, who is aware of the changes that her body goes through prior to menstruation, knows that she is more prone to infections, colds, fatigue, irritability and a general feeling of malaise at this time. All of these issues are a direct result of hormonal changes that are cycling through her entire body, from the brain right on down to the uterus. Why haven’t the clinical researchers, FDA/CDC oversight committees, gynecologists, pediatricians or family practice physicians who have approved and administered Gardasil® considered how the injection of this chemical cocktail might affect a still maturing female body that is least able to defend itself during the paramenstrum?*
Maybe timing was the issue for those females suffering from ovarian dysfunction? On another search, I saw a discussion of women whose periods were always like clockwork but stopped after they had the H1N1 vaccine. IIRC, there were a lot of miscarriages and stillbirths after that vaccine as well. And if a vaccine can disrupt a menstrual cycle, what is it doing during gestation? I really can't understand pregnant women that will allow themselves to be vaccinated during that time.

Also from the Mayo Clinic when I searched POF causes, and it stated that there are two causes- follicle depletion and follicle disruption.
Causes of follicle depletion include:
Toxins. Chemotherapy and radiation therapy are the most common causes of toxin-induced ovarian failure. These therapies may damage the genetic material in cells. Other toxins such as cigarette smoke, chemicals, pesticides and viruses may hasten ovarian failure.
Causes of follicle disruption include:

An immune system response to ovarian tissue (autoimmune disease). Your immune system may produce antibodies against your own ovarian tissue, harming the egg-containing follicles and damaging the egg. What triggers the immune response is unclear, but exposure to a virus is one possibility.
my bold

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/premature-ovarian-failure/basics/causes/con-20028351
 

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About the ACP for the lurkers:

"The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a socially conservative association of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States. The College was founded in 2002 by a group of pediatricians including Joseph Zanga, a past president of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), as a protest against the AAP's support for adoption by gay couples.

Zanga has described ACPeds as a group "with Judeo-Christian, traditional values that is open to pediatric medical professionals of all religions who hold true to the group's core beliefs: that life begins at conception; and that the traditional family unit, headed by a different-sex couple, poses far fewer risk factors in the adoption and raising of children."[5] The organization's view on parenting is at odds with the position of the American Academy of Pediatrics, which hold that homosexual behavior has no correlation with the ability to be a good parent and to raise healthy and well-adjusted children.[3][6][7]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_College_of_Pediatricians

So yeah...
 
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Ah. So if they are wrong about homosexual parents they are misreading the science on Gardasil?

There were actually a good many facts in the original article. Perhaps we could discuss the facts?

Or do we have to wait for Skeptical Rapture to chime in?
 

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Ah. So if they are wrong about homosexual parents they are misreading the science on Gardasil?

There were actually a good many facts in the original article. Perhaps we could discuss the facts?

Or do we have to wait for Skeptical Rapture to chime in?
The evidence that children are not any worse off living with same sex parents is pretty overwhelming. So yeah, I would take what they say about this kind of stuff with a grain of salt. Conservative groups often have huge issues with the gardasil vaccine because it's a vaccine against a sexually transmitted disease.

I mean, in the first paragraph they talk about a group of three case studies (which are some of the absolute weakest forms of scientific evidence) possibly linking gardasil to POF. One of the authors for the case report, as Orac put it
...is on the board of advisors for an Australian Catholic anti-abortion group called Family Life International, whose official patron laments the growth of promiscuity and the “redefining” of marriage (big surprise, the group is against gay marriage as well). On the website is a diatribe against Gardasil, which, FLI gravely notes, is “often associated with promiscuity,” along with a link to a YouTube video of the antivaccine propaganda film The Greater Good. It also turns out that Ward is, as one of my commenters put it, cut from the same cloth, described as a “pro-life obstetrician/gynecologist.” He also apparently helps an antiabortion activist named Stephanie Gray give talks at local churches in Canada in which she shows graphic abortion videos to convince the audience that abortion is “wrong 100% of the time.
Ward is the second author of that study. Like I said, I'd take it with a grain of salt as these kinds of conservative, pro life groups often do have an axe to grind against Gardasil. Plus, they didn't provide any good evidence that the vaccine caused ovarian dysfunction in any case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So the college says there is a very small body of evidence that could possibly maybe show a correlation between the vaccine and the ovarian dysfunction. The vaccine itself was never tested for this ovarian issue and there seem to be a number of claims showing that the issue is increasing after vaccination. The college then says that more studies are needed, and that parents should make their own decisions in regards to giving their kids the vaccine and speak to their doctors about it. They never said don't get the vaccine, they never said that the vaccine should be suspended until further studies are undertaken. In fact, I never thought for one second that the college was advocating that people avoid the vaccine at all.

So do you believe that every single doctor who belongs to the American College of Pediatricians is a liar who can't be trusted when it comes to vaccines? I mean, they're all associated with these horrible anti-abortion gay bashing Gardasil hating people. Can any of them be trusted?
 

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Still not discussing the actual points raised.
Show me an actual large peer reviewed study showing a link between gardasil and "ovarian dysfunction" and we can talk.

The link from the OP entailed some case studies (which, again, are some of the weakest forms of scientific evidence) and a bunch of VAERS reports which does not prove anything. There is a Gardasil VAERS report filed after a woman fell into a well and drown. Honestly now. The link even admits that there has not been any increase in Premature Ovarian Failure diagnoses since the vaccine was introduced.
 

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Standard line.

Cannot even consider a problem unless there is a large peer-reviewed study documenting such a problem.

However, these big studies are done based on case reports. And VAERS report. Which are now considered nonsense (by the vaccine defenders), so no need to follow up or do further research.

Brilliant system if you want to sell product for as long as possible without acknowledging anything that goes wrong. Not so great for the people who end up injured.

And still not discussing the facts.
 

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Standard line.

Cannot even consider a problem unless there is a large peer-reviewed study documenting such a problem.

However, these big studies are done based on case reports. And VAERS report. Which are now considered nonsense (by the vaccine defenders), so no need to follow up or do further research.

Brilliant system if you want to sell product for as long as possible without acknowledging anything that goes wrong. Not so great for the people who end up injured.

And still not discussing the facts.
a large study which shows the same correlations would be very damning for the vaccine, thus no studies are going to be done. The science is settled. There.
 

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Also, the system is very well designed to avoid spotting rare problems.

So I don't think the HPV vaccine defenders have anything to worry about. The vaccine will continue to be pushed and mandated and any problems will continue to be denied.
 
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Looks like redwineandapplesauce covered this response. They point out, like I did, that this sounds like an opinion based on ideology, not evidence.

http://www.redwineandapplesauce.com...ricians-group-promotes-ideology-not-evidence/

They note that the same organization also has a pro spanking position, even mentioning that the spank needs to be "painful" to be effective.

Other objectively false statements they make include stating that abortion increases the risk of breast cancer and pre-term birth, which is not true no matter where you stand on the abortion issue.

The link notes:

Again, these are hot button issues — but that’s my point. They are relying on ideological beliefs to replace evidence rather than simply providing an ethical or moral argument in addition to what the evidence shows. The latter is fine. The former is not. Therefore, their position statement on HPV vaccination should be viewed in this context. They write in their statement, “The debate as to whether vaccinating adolescents against a sexually transmitted infection such as HPV may contribute to an increase in premarital sex is not settled.” That’s inaccurate. A couple dozen studies have investigated this question in depth and determined that vaccination against HPV does not increase the likelihood of a child or teen engaging in sexual activity any more than getting a tetanus vaccine encourages kids to step on rusty nails.

Similarly, their most recent press release updating their HPV vaccine statement needlessly creates fear about an alleged risk of the HPV that is not supported by the evidence. They attempt to link HPV vaccination with six cases of premature ovarian failure among the millions of doses of the vaccine administered. While it is important to pursue all adverse events that occur after vaccination, it is also important not to confuse correlation with causation. There is no reliable evidence that the HPV vaccine causes ovarian failure. Premature ovarian failure is a tragic, rare occurrence caused by chromosomal defects, toxins such as those from chemotherapy or radiation treatment for cancer, an autoimmune disease or unknown factors, but there is no evidence or described biological mechanism which would suggest HPV vaccination is one of those factors. But statistically, premature ovarian failure is practically guaranteed to occur at least sometimes after administration of the HPV vaccine — not because the vaccine causes it but because that’s how random distribution over time works.
 
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Actually, this line of reasoning is quite interesting.

The argument you are bringing forward is that if an organization takes some positions which conflict with the general stance of the Mothering community, then anything and everything they say should be disregarded.

The Mothering community takes a very clear stance AGAINST mandatory vaccinations. Nevertheless, you, @teacozy, regularly link to organizations and individuals who take a strong stance in FAVOR of mandatory vaccinations.

Gotta love it.
 
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Actually, this line of reasoning is quite interesting.

The argument you are bringing forward is that if an organization takes some positions which conflict with the general stance of the Mothering community, then anything and everything they say should be disregarded.

The Mothering community takes a very clear stance AGAINST mandatory vaccinations. Nevertheless, you, @teacozy, regularly link to organizations and individuals who take a strong stance in FAVOR of mandatory vaccinations.

Gotta love it.
That wasn't my line of reasoning. There is a lot of evidence that spanking does more harm than good yet this same organization recommends it anyway. In other words, it's more evidence to take their recommendations with a grain of salt.
 
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