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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hippie.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hippie"> Sorry I haven't been around, not that I have much to contribute around here. Being one of the lamens around here, I'm more of a taker than a giver. I got caught up "on the other side" - a mainstream board I participate on. A recent thread had me wondering what some of you around here would think of the issue.<br><br>
The opinions of some on the board were that if you accepted interferences during birth, such as an induction or an epidural, that you are a hypocrite for not vaccinating. Thoughts?
 

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how is that even comparable???????<br><br>
hypocritical is a doctor who pushes vaxes on his patients and doesn't vax himself or his own children.<br><br>
receiving pain relief or trying to speed up a birth is not the same as deliberately injecting known poisons into your child's body. apples and oranges.<br><br>
you can't have a debate with people who don't know their subject matter any better than that.
 

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While it is true that pitocin,cytotec,and epidural drugs can harm a baby(and mother) I don't get it how people would think because you accept one poision you must continue to accept that and other poisions. Each procedure/intervention must be considered on an individual basis.<br><br>
Sara
 

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I wonder if they may be coming from a position something like this:<br><br>
If you benefit from the wonders of civilization you are not supposed to pick and choose and take just the goodies you want. Civilization is a package deal, all or nothing, etc.<br><br>
No, it is not remotely logical.
 

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I don't think it is logical..but I"m guessing they think that all nonvaxers chose not to vax because they don't like foreign things in the body..manmade things...<br><br>
that is only one part of the reason for some people to not vax. There are a myriad of reasons that some of us don't do it.<br>
I should find my old thread about why we don't vax. I'll find it and bump it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Sounds like, if you did, you'd drastically lower the average IQ.</td>
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Well thanks, Hilary!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"> I guess it boosts my confidence in my own intelligence after visiting here. :LOL I agree especially with Sara's comment that each procedure should be considered individually.<br><br>
Yes, the biggest criticism was that a non-vaxer who uses birth intervention <b>justifies</b> it for their own "comfort". Four out of the five main participants of the discussion wanted a drug-free birth. Two of them ended up with an emergency c/s, both of whom are also not vaccinating. Of the two who did have a drug-free birth, one is vaxing, the other delaying. The one who was induced & had an epi has fully vaxed her child and is married to a med student/soon to be pediatrician (her view is self-explanatory). Of course, most held the view that the risks to your baby are much greater having a drug during birth than the risks of vaccinating.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes">:<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I don't get it how people would think because you accept one poision you must continue to accept that and other poisions.</td>
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I specifically addressed this. The response I received, predictably, was "I don't think vaccines are poisons". This was followed by the pediatrician's wife telling me that aluminum should not be a concern or considered a toxin because it is made naturally by the body. Yes, at this point I found the continuing the conversation to be completely pointless.
 

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This discussion made me start wondering about something.<br><br>
We mainly worry about governmental organizations, backed by medical groups pushing vaccines on us, narrowing exemptions, calling out CPS, etc. If, however, the majority of parents disapproved of forced vaccination, it would be very hard for the government, medical groups and CPS to pursue their policies. So ignorance and wrong-headedness on this topic help the pro-vaccination forces and endanger our children and, in my case, grandchildren.<br><br>
So maybe we do need to monitor the discussions on these groups. It is one way to find out how successful the pro-vaccine media strategy is. It is also a way to find out why people vaccinate. What do they fear? What do they believe? What positive gains do they expect?<br><br>
Hope I managed to be clear!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/confused.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Confused">:<br><br>
Deborah
 

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Hi Deborah,<br><br>
You were eminently clear and I thank you for saying what you did about the government, forced vaccines and our compliance with it. My bottom line reason for doing the website, writing my columns, etc. is to educate the public, so they will be armed with enough information and motivated enough to fight these mandates.<br><br>
But equally important is that we demand sound studies on vaccines, and refuse vaccinations until and unless we are satisfied with the quality of the research, and only if we believe vaccines to be of benefit to us and our children, after gaining access to valid and useful information.<br><br>
Then and only then will we have truly INFORMED consent.<br><br>
It is also worth keeping in mind that the vaccine manufacturers have absolutely no incentive at this time to create safer vaccines, given that they are mandated AND bear almost no financial responsibility for negative outcomes. (By the way, I deliberately said "safer" as opposed to "safe", as it is my opinion that vaccines can never be made safe [even the powers that be, covering their you know whats, marginally admit that when they say no vaccine is 100% safe], but they can be made "safer". For instance, removing "thimerosal", depending on what they used to substitute for it, if anything [single-dose vials would require substituting nothing, from what I understand], would make vaccines safer. )<br><br>
BTW, while I may personally believe the benefits of vaccination do NOT outweigh their risks, given that there will always be people choosing to vaccinate, I certainly want them to be as safe as possible.<br><br>
Anyone, interested in joining the political fight, to allow freedom of choice, hold vaccine manufacturers responsible, improve the quality of vaccine research, etc. can contact me privately at <a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>.<br><br>
All the best,<br>
Sandy<br><br>
Sandy Mintz<br><a href="http://www.vaccinationnews.com" target="_blank">http://www.vaccinationnews.com</a><br><a href="http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Scandals/past_scandals.htm" target="_blank">http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Scand...t_scandals.htm</a><br><br>
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." - Wendell Phillips (1811-1884), paraphrasing John Philpot Curran (1808)
 

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Even if our bodies DID make aluminum... which these other smart mommies have already clarified they do not... Off the top of my head I can come up with an impressive list of things our bodies make that I would kill you if you tried to inject into my child.<br>
Give THAT some thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
OMG! Someone pass me the dunce cap and put me in the corner (no, my name's not Baby)!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/duh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="duh"> Sorry, it was REALLY late when I posted that last night. Here is what she said...<br><br>
Mercury is not found in vaxes anymore, formaldehyde is made naturally by the human body and aluminum is naturally found in the body. She does not consider them toxins.<br><br>
When I later went on to discuss how mercury IS still in vaccines, the group went on to say how one would need to consume 5lbs of tuna to equal the amount of mercury in one vaccine. Funny, I don't know anyone that injects tuna into their body, but maybe we can start a new thread on that one. :LOL<br><br>
To answer Deborah's comments, from hanging around this group, I would have to say that their (the vaxers on that forum) biggest fear is their children dying of a "horrible" disease that can be "prevented" with vaccination. Many have extreme trust in their pediatricians, often commenting that they wouldn't prescribe something if it "wasn't safe". They also believe the vaccination is the sole reason some diseases are not around anymore.<br><br>
I also feel, from my discussing vaxes with them, that there is a big wall up against receiving any info on vaxes. I get the vibe that many WANT to blindly trust their doctors. This way, if something does go wrong, they'll have someone else to blame other than themselves. Got to go - DD is "calling" me.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hippie.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hippie"><br><br><i>edited to paraphrase previously used quote.</i>
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><i>Originally posted by insider</i><br><b>Our bodies make aluminum? How wonderfully fantastic! Do our bodies make other metals?? Gold? Silver? That is amazing! I'm going to have to be a little more careful about what I flush down the toilet.<br><br></b></td>
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<br><br>
:LOL <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/ROTFLMAO.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rotflmao"> :LOL<br><br>
insider as usual your post was very informative, but i just had to comment on this specific part!!!!!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin">
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><i>Originally posted by Mommy To Baby Roni</i><br><b>went on to say how one would need to consume 5lbs of tuna to equal the amount of mercury in one vaccine. Funny, I don't know anyone that injects tuna into their body, but maybe we can start a new thread on that one. :LOL<br></b></td>
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<br><br><br>
:LOL:
 

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In regard to mercury, you don't have to eat a lot to cause a problem, especially if it bioaccumulates. I will forever remember the picture in National Geographic of a Japanese mother from Minimata cradling her around 5 year old blind, deaf, mentally impaired and crippled daughter in a tub...all due to the effects of mercury.
 

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I had a rant ready to spew after reading the initial post; but, after reading all the replies, I think I just need to say "I second that".<br><br>
And Minimata. I hadn't thought of that in years. I <i>could</i> provide a visual, but all our emoticons are too cute for it.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><i>Originally posted by Mommy To Baby Roni</i><br><b>This was followed by the pediatrician's wife telling me that aluminum should not be a concern or considered a toxin because it is made naturally by the body.</b></td>
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As Machiavelli wrote: " The genius of a man [sic] can be determined by the people with whom he surrounds himself."<br><br>
People frequently call me judgmental, but I think I prefer to call it "having judgment". I would never go to that paediatrician on the basis of the ignorance of his wife.<br><br>
And if ya don't know, don't flap yer gums.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes">:
 
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