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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I don't have anybody close talk about with this and need somewhere to put it.<br>
I know many of you have been in situations like these and can maybe help me sort out a massive jumble of feelings that have just been dumped in my lap.<br><br>
I have an outstanding father. He's my best friend, has always been there for me even at the drop of a hat.<br><br>
I have what I would call a shitty mother. Major mental health issues, drug/liquor addiction periods, has had very little contact with me since my dad pulled me out of her house (at my request) my freshman year of high school.<br><br>
98% of the contact with her over the years have been initiated by me only to leave me upset.<br><br>
Recently I went through a patch with my son where I almost totally turned him over to his father permanently. It was a combination of his issues and mine. But then I thought about what it was like to be neglected by a mother and all the baggage I carry with it. I totally snapped out of it and realized it would do neither of any good and sought help for both of us. Things def turned around and now we're all good.<br>
I told her all of that....and actually thanked her for putting me through that because I think it totally pulled me through that patch. No contact from her...and understandably.<br><br>
So, she emails me a wonderful birthday wishes this year and how my birth was the happiest day of her life and how she's missed being a mother. Ok, I understand people turn around, but over the past 20 years I have tried time and time again to get her to be my mom with open doors. I finally just got fed up with it being my responsibility and basically told her that we needed to stop playing games with each other.<br>
That I open my door far enough to be in her grandson's life, but nothing else.<br><br>
She sends me an email (with a CC to her whole family) laying out major details that my father raped her sister, got away with it, and hopes that he burn in hell....and invites them all to send me all the details (basically witness statements).<br><br>
I ask her why any part of the relationship between her and I ever depended on what (if anything, really) my father did during their marriage. She says that she never felt welcome to be my mother. W.T.F!!! She's always known my phone number, email address, physical address. I told her when y my son was born. When I found out I was pregnant the second time and then when I had a miscarriage.<br>
You know what she wrote back when I told her I had a miscarraige? "Hey, sorry. Did you know your aunt just found out she's pregnant?"<br>
Really motherly. All you ladies who've been through a miscarriage can understand how devastating a comment THAT is.<br><br>
She says she's tried to tell me this before, but that I got up and walked out on her the one time she came to see me when I was 17. I truly don't recall that incident. I think I would remember my mother trying to tell me that my father raped my aunt. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"><br><br>
I'm just...I dunno. Confused. I haven’t asked my dad yet. Which I feel like he has a right to know that this is being said, but….um, I’m confused.<br><br>
Thanks for reading. I just need somewhere third partyish to work this situation out.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>HappilyEvrAfter</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15423830"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I have what I would call a shitty mother. <b>Major mental health issues, drug/liquor addiction periods</b>, has had very little contact with me since my dad pulled me out of her house (at my request) my freshman year of high school.</div>
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Because of the bold, is it possible that she is lying and made the whole thing up?<br><br>
Has anyone supported her bombshell? Have you asked your dad about it yet?<br><br>
By no means do I want to come across as brushing off something as serious as sexual assult to the side but I have experience with families members who are so dysfunctional/mentally unstable that I could totally see them doing something like you described. And they have, it was just a different scenario.<br><br>
My MIL told lies so big/outrageous it would be funny if not so damaging.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Because of the bold, is it possible that she is lying and made the whole thing up?</td>
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Yeah, it totally could be this. Maybe it just hurts me so much that she doesn't/can't be my mother that I'm actaully subconciously trying to validate her story. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Has anyone supported her bombshell? Have you asked your dad about it yet?</td>
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Well, I "replied to all" and told them that any contact from them would be considered harrassment since I'm not the one that invited them into the conversation. None of them have emailed back any uninvited info.<br>
My older half-sister emailed back and said that she didn't have the time or inclination to get involed. Ok, I'm fine with that as I didn't ask her to get involved.<br><br>
I sent my dad the email, but he must be with a client cause I'm sure he'd be on the phone lickety-split about this. He's a drug and alchohol abuse counselor...which is totally ironic.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">My MIL told lies so big/outrageous it would be funny if not so damaging.</td>
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I guess this is where I'm at with this right now. Knowing my dad I'm just at a loss with my mother's retort.<br>
I mean, she is a totally functioning adult. Meaning that nobody outside our family history would EVER begin to believe her issues during my childhood.<br>
I mean, if there was any validity to it I would think my grandfather would have exscorted my father to his property line with a shot gun and shot him there just so he wouldn't have to have racial blood on his grass. That man was super racist, yet loved my mexican father. I'm not trying to be offensive, but that is a very true picture of who he was.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>HappilyEvrAfter</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15423998"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br><br>
Well, I "replied to all" and told them that any contact from them would be considered harrassment since I'm not the one that invited them into the conversation. None of them have emailed back any uninvited info.<br>
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Hopefully this isn't what it seems -- you're subconsciously trying to protect yourself from the truth.<br><br>
She could be a crappy mother AND telling the truth about your father. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
 

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I think you need to see your father face to face and ask him about the rape. I would do it face to face so you can see his reaction.<br><br>
Also, I would not engage your mother in any type conversation about this. To me, it seems like the only reason she is telling you about it now is to hurt you and damage your relationship with your father.<br><br>
Sorry you are dealing with this. I hope you are able to get some answers...honest answers.<br><br>
Have you read <i>Toxic Parents</i>? That book was life changing for me.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

A&A;15425525 said:
Hopefully this isn't what it seems -- you're subconsciously trying to protect yourself from the truth.<br><br>
She could be a crappy mother AND telling the truth about your father. The two aren't mutually exclusive.[/QUOT<br>
I fully see your point with this. I'm at a point where I don't think I really, truly want to know the nitty gritty details.<br><br>
I went ahead and asked my father about it. I couldn't have kept him from figuring out something was on my mind. He can read me like an open book.<br><br>
His first reaction was exasperation. The he launched into a vague, but accountable version of what happened. He told me a situation occured, military police were called to the house, an investigation ensurd and no charges (military or civilian) were pressed. He asked me if I wanted to know any other details of the situation and I declined at the time.<br>
He said ok. He went on to make some valid points: my grandfather would never have let him back in their house if any of that would have been true, my grandfather never would have left a request for him to perform his funeral (my dad is a licensed reverend) in his will, my mother stayed married to him for another 10 years, we still went to my grandparents house quite often after that without incident. And, of course, he brought up the fact that she might be making this a big deal because I called her out about playing games.<br><br>
It might help to say that the sister is question is about 16 years younger than my mom so my aunt would have still been living in my grandparents house all the times we went to visit after "the incident".<br><br>
And we talked about laying the last 15 years side by side...my mother's actions and his. The whole actions speak louder than words thing. I have to tell you, where I'm involved, my dad wins hands down. He's had a stellar record.<br><br>
So, maybe I am just trying to make myself blind to the whole thing. I might not want to know anymore about it.<br>
But, really, even if what she says IS true that's absolutely no excuse for her actions toward me all these years. It's not like *I'm* the one that was accused of raping her sister. Yeah, I love the man that was, but he's my DAD who's never harmed me, always protected me, always been there, never been in any conflict since they've been divorce, yadda-yadda.<br><br>
I guess I'm best just to let this go...it's still niggling in the back of my head, but...i dunno...it ifts, but it doesn't.<br><br>
Is it usually best to let sleeping family deamons like this go? Or should I press for the details and put it to rest finally?
 

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Could you ask your aunt for her version of the story? Seems like that would be the quickest way to hear the "other side of the story".
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>HappilyEvrAfter</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15426256"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I fully see your point with this. I'm at a point where I don't think I really, truly want to know the nitty gritty details.<br><br>
His first reaction was exasperation. The he launched into a vague, but accountable version of what happened. He told me a situation occured, military police were called to the house, an investigation ensurd and no charges (military or civilian) were pressed. He asked me if I wanted to know any other details of the situation and I declined at the time.</div>
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So he didn't actually say, "No, I didn't rape her"?<br><br>
If it were me, I'd HAVE to know. But I understand if you don't want to know right now.
 

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I'd have to know as well, considering it sounds like <i>something</i> sexual happen.<br><br>
It all sounds rather strange. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2">
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>A&A</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15429401"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">So he didn't actually say, "No, I didn't rape her"?<br><br>
If it were me, I'd HAVE to know. But I understand if you don't want to know right now.</div>
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Well, his exasperation was followed by, "Nothing like that happened."<br><br>
I assume <i>something</i> either inappropriate or missunderstood must have happened, but it apparently wasn't blatent rape like my mother said it was.<br>
There really are many details that cooberate <b><i>his</i></b> points.<br><br>
I keep continually keep going back and forth in my head about whether I really want to know the fine details.<br>
What would it change though, really? I mean, it wouldn't change the fact that he's been a totally stellar father, that he's NEVER once let me down, and it wouldn't change the fact that my mother is using this one issue as an excuse for not having a relationship or, at least, <i>trying</i> more to have a relationship with me.<br>
Maybe I don't want to know because it <i>would</i> validate my shitty mother. But, then, what good would that do? It certainly wouldn't change the fact that her actions let me know I was not a priority in her life. Everyone goes through stuff, but when a child gives you 'umpteen-million chances to return to their lives and you don't take at least one, then you clearly state a matter of fact.<br><br>
I keep coming back to this one point: their personal actions these last 20 years makes one look awesome and one look...well....shitty.<br>
Do I really let something that <i>allegedly</i> (I use that lightly) happen when I was, like, 6 potentially ruin a solid, spotless relationship with my dad?<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">If it were me, I'd HAVE to know.</td>
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Oh, trust me, I def. understand the need to know.<br>
What would be some reasons that I would really need to know though?<br>
Would anyone else persist with needing to know the fine details? Why?<br>
I'm totally open to your reponses.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">It all sounds rather strange.</td>
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Ha, it feels strange. It's like I'm looking in on someone else's life suddenly.
 

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To me this all boils down to 2 bottom lines:<br><br>
1. As you yourself told your mom, nothing your dad did could ever or would ever excuse or explain her lack of mothering to you. And the bit about "I never felt invited to mother you" is a pack of BS. An old friend of mine, her mom told her that as a baby she "didn't let her mother hold her". BS! Babies are just that, babies! Even a squirming baby needs to be and must be held and loved, and the idea that a baby could actually send a coherent "Don't mother me please. Id' rather you didn't." message to a mother is absurd, even the most colic-y needy baby is still a baby in need!<br><br>
Ok, that was a long 1st bottom line... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
2. As has been said, it sounds like SOMETHING happened between your father and your aunt. The fact that your mom said this out of meanness/effort to disrupt your relationshp with your father doesn't mean it isn't true. And yes, it sounds inappropriate.<br><br>
You have to decide if you want to know or not. But sounds to me like you'd be making a mistake if you took what your dad said as "nothing inappropriate happened". I agree that if you want to know, you should probably ask your aunt.<br><br>
But let's just imagine the worst case scenario: rape. As horrible as a rape would be, and as awful a side of your dad you'd be discovering, if he was a great father to you and has been there for you, please don't let that awful news erase what's been good and right. Yes, you'd have to process that and figure out how it affects your current relationship with him, but if he's been a good father, he's still hopefully a good father, and just like it's possible for him to be a great dad and to have done something awful (or maybe just really bad judgement or who knows what...), it's also possible to keep loving him and having a great father AND knowing he's done something really bad that is hard to process.<br><br>
HOpefully, if you pursue the truth, it will turn out not to be as bad as that anyway. But even if it is, you can handle it and still have your father. It just would not be the same father you knew, but he can still be a good one to you.<br><br>
Life can be that complicated, but don't let it have the effect your mom hopes it would, of erasing his good parenting and maybe even-ing out your views of htem.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>LROM</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15441399"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">But let's just imagine the worst case scenario: rape. As horrible as a rape would be, and as awful a side of your dad you'd be discovering, if he was a great father to you and has been there for you, please don't let that awful news erase what's been good and right.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that"> I don't think you will ever really get the whole truth. You can hear both sides and the truth would probably be somewhere in the middle.<br><br>
To be honest, this happened so far in the past, I can't imagine it is a reflection of the man your father is today. Accept who he is now and not who he might have been decades ago. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>HappilyEvrAfter</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15431524"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">What would be some reasons that I would really need to know though?<br>
Would anyone else persist with needing to know the fine details? Why?<br>
I'm totally open to your reponses.<br><br><br>
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Personally, I'd want to know how much time I was spending with a rapist. It's not merely "the fine details." It's RAPE --potentially.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I "hear" all three of you and thank you for your replies.<br><br>
LROM - You've pretty mush summed up very nicely where I'm at right now.<br>
But, I don't know about asking my aunt. I haven't spoken to her in...geez...25 years. I don't even know that she'd WANT to talk about something that was potentially rape. Would people who've been raped really want to talk about it?<br>
I mean, it would be different if she was the one that sent the email, but it was my mother that brought it up.<br><br>
And my mom pretty much told me "goodbye forever" in her last email. Do I go back now and say, "Hey, you said goodbye, but I need the details from you if you're still willing?"<br><br>
Ugh. This is horrible. I swing horribly back and forth from "this can't possibly be true in a million years. Let's just move on." to "I now live in the twilight zone where my crazy mother tells the truth and my awesome dad is a rapist".<br><br>
Pauletoy - I can def tell ya'll that this wouldn't be a reflection of who my dad is now in a million years. But, would I be willing to give any other rapist in the world the same break just becuase they did it 20 years ago? Yeah, YES, he's my dad and that counts, but.....still. That makes me feel like a hypocrite.<br><br>
Nah, I don't think I'll ever get the honest to goodness truth. Then, even if I hear both sides I have to reconcile myself with that fact.<br><br>
I'm sorry, I know this is paltry compared to other people's family issues, but I feel like my world has been turned upside down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>A&A</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15441698"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Personally, I'd want to know how much time I was spending with a rapist. It's not merely "the fine details." It's RAPE --potentially.</div>
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Sorry, I meant to address you too! I understand where your coming from....and if it was anyone other than my dad I would be hard core "I demand to know who I'm around"....which is why I feel like such a hypocrite for making the excuse about him being my dad and why this is so conflicting.<br><br>
If it turns out to be true and I still hold to my "that person is a rapist and doesn't deserve a second chance then.......you know what I mean?
 

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I think it's been touched upon that there are two very, very separate issues here.<br><br>
1) Your relationship with your mother.<br><br>
Is totally and completely separate from:<br><br>
2) What happened between your father and your aunt.<br><br>
About point 1 - hon, have you considered closing the book on your mother? Do you get anything positive from your relationship with her or is it heartbreak after heartbreak? My DH cut his father out of his life because he found it was just heartbreak after heartbreak. Obviously cutting him out was a heartbreak of its own, but it was only one last one, and not ongoing, and it's healed over the years. Hoping for a parent to be a parent and always being disappointed, that must be so hard to live with.<br><br>
Your mother's revelations about your father is, whether completely true or partly true or wholly untrue, are strictly manipulations and have nothing to do with her relationship with you. IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE. Clearly she is flailing about and trying to deflect her responsiblity for her relationship with you, onto anyone else.<br><br>
Now, about your father - you have to decide if you want to know more. If you're not ready to, fine. However, I think that the healthiest thing is to find out. I think it's ok if you're not ready to do it now, but I would not feel comfortable pretending nothing happened.<br><br>
What effect will it have on your relationship with your father? We don't know. You won't know until you find out. I understand being scared. I'm trying to figure out how to say this, it's sort of vague: but I just sort of see you avoiding the truth of your relationships with BOTH of your parents. And I'm sure you're doing that because it hurts to face it. But since you wrote in Personal Growth, I do think you'd grow if you were to look at the truth more rather than rely on the pictures you have made and maintained.<br><br>
It's not exactly the same but I have found as an adult I am seeing my parents in different ways than I did as a child. I always saw my mother as kind of perfect but I am finding she is flawed, perhaps deeply. Yet I have a feeling that as I work through this, I will come out on the other side and understand and love her more than before - and for who she really is, not the image I used to have of her. I already understand the reasons for her flaws (she was abused and abandoned) but I'm still in the process of seeing her true self and really being ok with it. I think this stuff is extremely important, as in meaning-of-life important.
 

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Well, your mom is still a poor mother no matter what your dad did or didn't do and you need to hold her responsible for that. It sounds like she's trying to distract you from remembering her actions.<br><br>
However, knowing exactly what happened might explain some things. It might explain ways that your mother felt towards your father, or ways your father felt towards your mother. Perhaps your aunt liked your dad and your mom accused them of wrong doing and it got blown out of proportion. How old was your aunt at the time, anyway? Seems like she must have been young.<br><br>
I guess my point is that perhaps knowing all the details would illuminate some things for you, even if it is just to confirm what you've always felt about your mother. It sounds like there's more to the story- I can imagine many variations, some innocent, some not, some just less than flattering. It sounds like you trust your dad and he's willing to tell you more if you want to know. It also sounds like nothing he could say will change how you feel about him so if it's driving you crazy, why not just find out the story and deal with whatever it is? And deal with your mother separately- in most ways, the two have nothing to do with each other.<br><br>
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this and that your mother reinserted herself into your life to drop this on you. Obviously, she's trying to alter the relationship you have with your dad in seemingly toxic ways. Seems best to be done with her for more reasons than this alone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Sigh. So, thanks again for the posts. I need to be pushed to get this done.<br><br>
I pretty did much write my mother off last summer. I sent her an email letting her know that I can completely forgiver her actions, but they will always be remembered. That I would maintain a line of contact strictly for her to access to my son and his life as his grandmother....not that I truly expected much interaction from her.<br>
I thought that would end it, but apparently she either truly didn't get it or decided to play the "i'm gonna let you think I'm stupid card". I friended her on FB (yeah, yeah, I know) so that I could give her distant access to my son. Well, she started with b-day messages to me....then I finally bluntly laid it all out to her because I was tired of this emotional "i wanna play mommy on my terms" game. THAT's when she started with this rape accusation. Yes, I totally saw it as her manipulation and backlash for me calling out her actions.<br>
She told me that if I couldn't see her "truth" then she would just say goodbye. Well, ok, I'd been trying to say goodbye for the last year so I simply wrote back "Goodbye".<br><br>
Then some details came creeping back to me that just wouldn't let this die.<br><br>
I told my dad yesterday that I wanted him to lay out his side of the story...and he did without hesitation, without any malice towards my mother (other than being mad in regards to her manipulation tactics), and urged me to get my mother's side of the story.<br>
Again, all his details can be accounted for and all coincide with other family memories I have. He also gave me some further details about my mother I wasn't conciously privy to and made some sense out of a couple of things. Like, the time she lost her job for sleeping with underage clients...well, I know for a FACT that she slept with one of my high school boyfriends so that goes along for par. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"><br><br>
Anyway, my dad gave me everything he said he had, that he life was an open book to me, and again urged me to recontact my mother for her side if I thought I could handle it.<br><br>
At this point, I don't think it really happened. I think my dad had an affection for my aunt, which he admits to, and I think she used that to cause trouble. Too many things I know now and some things I know that my mother doesn't know I know (lol) all fit together in his favor.<br><br>
I did email my mother and tell her that I'm willing to listen this one last time. I feel like I need both sides to get full closure. But even if she doesn't answer I think I'm ok with letting it settle enough to get on with life as it was.<br><br>
Whatever happens, whether she emails back or not, this starts the grieving process for truly and finally losing my mother. Putting that hope to rest is going to be hard, but I really think it will make me a better parent...my whole life experience with her has somehow made me a better mom to a difficult child, I think.<br><br>
Whew. This has been an emotional rollercoaster for a couple of weeks. Thanks for all your words and helping me along this craziness.<br>
I hope it's over and done...we'll see if she emails back, but I'm not holding my breath. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/innocent.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shy"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll">
 

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Have you read Toxic Parents? If not, I think it's a must-read for you. It is in my opinion the greatest self-help book of all time, and yes, I mean that.<br><br>
I mentioned my DH cut his father off, 100%. I've never met his father and never will. We won't go to his funeral or anything. (BTW, I'm not telling you this to recommend this course of action, just describing how it is). DH's sister does not have much of a relationship with their father, but she does allow little bits of contact here and there. Like he'll write an email once every two years or something. Every five or ten years they might even have lunch. She's afraid to completely cut him off. I cannot and will not judge her reasons (I think she's a little afraid he might show up and maybe even physically hurt her, even - so, coutnerintuitively she seems to want to know where he) but I will say that she does get emotionally hurt <i>every</i> time there is contact. So, for my DH (and again, I can't say this is a universal recommendation, you have to decide for yourself), NO contact EVER is best. It doesn't heal the hurts from the past, but his father never hurts him now.
 
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