[QueenSheba'sMom]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...id=smartliving

I always thought that the amount that I spend on groceries is excessive. For my family of 4, I range from $90/week to about $115/week. I think of my spending as a little bit out of control for our budget, and living beyond our means.

We buy mostly fruits, vegetables and tofu from a local asian megamart, where the basics are dirt cheap. Then we supplement with bread ($2.50/loaf for artisan bread), cereal ($2.99/box), fresh fish (whataver is the cheapest), etc. from our local trader joe's. We eat well, we eat quality whole foods...

Fast food for us means meals like quick sauteed veggies (some precut, a la tj's), canned chickpeas in dressing, canned baby corn, ... and it comes about as fast as I imagine fast food would take.

The idea that budget living with a family means that prepared foods are a neccessity is ridiculous to me. The idea that dry beans is a sensible path for people who are used to prepared foods is also ridiculous to me.

The whole food stamp for certain chemically processed prepared foods that have government contracts notion is offensive enough, but it just seems like this is a case of clueless meets clueless...

 

[Belleweather]

The whole "Congressional Food Stamp Challenge" thing just pisses me off. Our family recently went on food stamps because DH and I are unemployed and getting jobs is taking longer than we'd planned for. The woman who wrote that has obviously never been on food stamps!

Firstly, feeding one person well on food stamps is hella hard. There really are some economies of scale that go into food -- yeah, you can freeze or refrigerate excess portions, but you've still got to eat them before they go bad -- it's great for her to talk about a watermelon making 12 servings of fruit in the article but how long does she think she's going to have to eat all 12 before they go bad? (Plus, watermelon is not exactly overflowing with nutrition!)

Second, yeah. Dried beans are just ungodly hard to handle. I mean, I'm home all day and can leave a pot on the stove (where I have to pay for electricity...), and if I put black beans in in the morning they're still not entirely soft by dinner time, and I have a killer electric bill. Yeah, you can use a pressure cooker... but how many people have one of those ready and waiting?

Plus, she's taking an hour and a half to grocery shop -- not even including using public transportation! Totally not realistic for a family on food stamps. What kid is going to be patient with that kind of shopping without being drugged?!? And advocating using a paid online grocery delivery service? good lord, how privileged can you get to assume that people getting the full food stamp benefit (meaning that they have next to no income after paying rent) can afford $10 for grocery delivery? Or that they necessarily have regular internet access to even order groceries online or a credit card to pay for them. This sort of thing makes me so mad I start to see funny and growl.

On the other hand, I was totally astounded that getting food stamps was just a "here's your card, shop!" kind of thing. I guess I was used to WIC, where you have to go through nutrition training before you get your benefits. With food stamps, not only is information on nutririon not required, it's not even AVALIBLE. And it should be. Plus, there really are economies of scale in feeding a family; there is way less increased expense to make enough of something to feed 2 or 3 or 4 (especially if some of them are children) when you've already bought the ingredients to make it for 1. Food stamp alotments for single people NEED to be raised to reflect that.

 

[Ruthla]

Another factor to consider- around here anyway, the online food-delivery places dont' even accept food stamps!

I think the congressional food stamp challenge is a good idea though.

 

[QueenSheba'sMom]

Please comment!

I just did.

 

[Leta]

May, 2007 was the last month we got food stamps. (Yay for DH's new job!

) We got $338 per month, plus WIC/Project Fresh, for a family of three.

This was, if anything, too much for us. We are still living with the legacy of food stamps. We have tons of non-perishable staples in the house. We could easily go two weeks without setting foot in a grocery store. If produce/dairy runs were allowed, we could go two months without a problem.

However, we eat no convience food other than some meat analogs. The only meat we eat is fish. We have a chest freezer, and that allows us to store a lot of things that would otherwise go bad. It also makes cooking everything from scratch easier. We bake all our own bread, etc., the only cold cereal we eat is WIC or homemade granola, we make our own condiments, yogurt, salad dressing, popsicles, etc. We also grow some of our own vegetables.

Other than food, we also used food stamps to pay for seeds for the garden, vinegar, baking soda, club soda and extracts for cleaning, and the great majority of the staples we use to make pet food. We also bought 12 gallons of pickles so we could use the glass jars for flour storage (relax, we ate the pickles) and 50 jars of McCormick gourmet spices so we could reuse the spice jars.

It doesn't make any sense to me that I could buy liter upon liter of Coca-Cola with food stamps, but not toothpaste. Or bags of chips, but not stevia. For that matter, why could I buy Oreos but not soap?

On our food stamp budget, all our fruit and veggies were organic, our dairy/eggs/honey local and hormone free, our flours whole grain. We were able to eat VERY well. In fact, under out current budget ($250/mo plus WIC) we are able to to maintain this standard because we were wise enough to stock up on nonperishiables over the months that we had food stamps. This has afforded us the opportunity to have enough wiggle room in our budget to buy large quantities and bulk items. Basically, what food stamps did for us was to get the ball rolling so that we could use the pantry principle.

I think the problems with food stamps are not that the amounts are not generous enough- I think it has more to do with the other circumstances surrounding poverty. If we had not had a car, for example, and were reliant on our markets within walking distance, our dollar would not have stretched far at all. If we had relied on public transportation (which, for rural area, we are lucky to have) it would have been much more difficult and time consuming to stock up or go to three different stores for the best deals.

As I said, before, having a freezer (a gift from my ILs) helped us enormously. Most poor folks aren't so lucky. A friend of mine currently lives in a communal situation in a rental house. The oven has been broken the entire time she's lived there. She's not on food stamps or anything, but I imagine that a lot of poor people live in situations with negligent landlords and/or tempermental appliances.

Also, DH and I both can cook. This is a form of education that many people miss out on, and as we all know, money buys opportunity to learn.

Rather than increasing the amounts for food stamps, I think a more systemic approach would be preferable. For example, expanding the EIC or implementing a negative income tax or a minimum guaranteed income.

 

[CaraNicole]

i did find some humor in it but i'm twisted like that! i did get FS but only 71 dollars a month! what am i supposed to do w/that?

 

[dharmamama]

From the article:

"A family of four can receive a maximum of $518 per month -- or about $120 per week, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture."

My food budget for a family of five is $100 a week. I usually come in between 5 and 15 dollars under that. We eat mostly organic.

$120 in food stamps would be fabulous to me!

Quote:

if I put black beans in in the morning they're still not entirely soft by dinner time

I wonder why? I can put black beans in about 2 hours before I am ready to use them, and they are plenty soft when I need them.

I don't usually have to do that, though, because I soak the beans overnight and then crockpot them during the day. Even if you don't have a crockpot, if you soak them overnight they are usually cooked in about an hour. You can pick up a crockpot at the thrift store for less than $5. (I'm not trying to be snarky here, I am trying to be helpful.)

Quote:

Plus, she's taking an hour and a half to grocery shop -- not even including using public transportation! Totally not realistic for a family on food stamps. What kid is going to be patient with that kind of shopping without being drugged?!?

I take my five and four year olds grocery shopping with me, and it usually takes me about that long. Yeah, it's a PITA, but I do my best to get them involved. I let them hold the list, cross things off, look for things on the shelves, etc. I'm unsure why it would be harder for a family on food stamps to do this than it is for me. ETA: I also took them shopping with me when they were 2 and 1, 3 and 2, and 4 and 3.

I guess I'm kinda unclear on why using food stamps would make it harder to shop well. They can pretty much be used for any food, right? I understand that some families don't have the nutrition know-how or the time to cook whole foods from scratch that I have, but there are plenty of non-foodstamp families in the same boat.

dm

 

[Belleweather]

We get $408 in food stamps for a family of 3 + 1 fetus, which is absolutely plenty. On the other hand, we have some big bonuses that most people who are poor and relying on food stamps don't.

1. We get WIC, which subsidizes some of our more expensive groceries, like milk and cheese and cereal.

2. I can cook, and I was taught to cook by my mom who was a long-term vegetarian, so we can get by with very few convienence foods and not very much meat.

3. We're new to food stamps, meaning that we have a well-stocked pantry and have all the spices and condiments that we need to throw meals together. We also have a well-stocked freezer with a ton of meat in it.

Like I said, I think the food stamp amounts for families are PLENTY. I think single parent families (especially those headed by women, who get less then men in food stamp alotments) as well as single people get screwed when it comes to food stamps because of economies of scale are working against them.

Quote:

I think the problems with food stamps are not that the amounts are not generous enough- I think it has more to do with the other circumstances surrounding poverty. If we had not had a car, for example, and were reliant on our markets within walking distance, our dollar would not have stretched far at all. If we had relied on public transportation (which, for rural area, we are lucky to have) it would have been much more difficult and time consuming to stock up or go to three different stores for the best deals.

I think this is SO true!

Quote:

I take my five and four year olds grocery shopping with me, and it usually takes me about that long. Yeah, it's a PITA, but I do my best to get them involved. I let them hold the list, cross things off, look for things on the shelves, etc. I'm unsure why it would be harder for a family on food stamps to do this than it is for me.

Apparently, you have exceedingly well-behaved children. I have one toddler, and he cannot handle shopping for longer than 20 minutes. We let him pick out produce, let him hold things and give him toys in the cart, but after a half an hour he's screaming and trying to commit toddler suicide by tossing himself out of the cart onto his head.

: maybe it's the florescent lights, I don't know. But an hour and a half shopping trip would be impossible, unless I had childcare. In fact, we've had to break our grocery shopping up because we can't do a 'full run' without the baby freaking out, so now we 'get' to shop 2-3 times a week rather than once.

Plus, right now we're lucky in that at least one of our cars is road-worthy and safe. Without a car, we'd need between an hour and a half an hour on public transportation to the closest (not cheapest) grocery store, shopping time, and then the same amount of time to get home. That's a LONG time for a toddler -- especially if we have to wait at the bus stop and he has to be held the whole time because it's unsafe otherwise. And I only have one kid at the moment. I have so much respect for moms of more than one small child who have to manage shopping on the bus.

 

[dharmamama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belleweather Apparently, you have exceedingly well-behaved children.

:

My kids are not hellions, but never would the words "exceedingly well behaved" be used to describe them. Ever. They are regular kids who scream and yell and make huge messes and whine and argue and bicker and push every button they can. Shopping with them is unfun. I just didn't understand why you said that spending that long shopping was unrealistic specifically for a family on food stamps.

Do you take snacks for your son? They used to occupy my kids enough that I could stretch out the shopping trip a bit.

Another thing I used to do is buy half my groceries, take them out to the car, let the kids run around for a while, and then go back in and buy the other half.

Can you wear your son in a backpack?

Can you shop after your partner gets home/on the weekend?

dm

 

[2Sweeties1Angel]

Quote:

Plus, she's taking an hour and a half to grocery shop -- not even including using public transportation! Totally not realistic for a family on food stamps. What kid is going to be patient with that kind of shopping without being drugged?!?

Mine are usually patient that long, but it's because we practically live in Wal-Mart and they're used to it

: Only the baby is drugged--Mommy's on antidepressants and a little bit passes through the breastmilk. The trick to keeping my kids quiet and happy in the store is confining and bribing. The 2 year old goes in the stroller, the baby gets worn, and DS has to walk alongside the cart. If they behave, they're rewarded with strawberries sprinkled with sugar when we get home.

We currently get around $350/month in FS for me, DH, a 6yo, a 2yo, and an infant. It's enough for us to eat mostly healthy on (and buy a little junk now and then), but we live in a LCOL area. We don't get WIC, just FS. We're eligible for WIC, but I'm lactose intolerant and the kids don't drink much milk (and we can't get anything but cow's milk here) so there's no reason for me to drive 30+ miles to the WIC office.

 

[Kavita]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leta We also bought 12 gallons of pickles so we could use the glass jars for flour storage (relax, we ate the pickles) and 50 jars of McCormick gourmet spices so we could reuse the spice jars.

OT, but that's a helluva lot of pickles to have to eat!!!! (how long did that take you and how many people in your family?)

 

[Free Thinker]

I think the amount for FS is sufficient if you know how to cook. We live rural, and basically don't ever eat out. A few years ago I stopped buying any processed foods, now I Have added a few cereals and bread back in, but for hte most part we are a whole family food. This would be plenty to feed my family on. I do however have a freezer, and a pressure cooker (use for green beans mostly), and I have all of hte "basics". I feel that the main problem is that people are not educated on how to prepare healthy foods for their families on a budget. Frozen veggies are great, and often go on sale. Beans and oatmeal are great CHEAP staples. My family eats either oatmeal or malt-p-meal everyday, and it's just SO cheap! Much cheaper than cereal. We use cold cereal mostly as a treat, or a snack for DH. We also eat lots of bananas, which are always cheap, and potatoes! So, I think if a person knows how to cook, one could easily eat on that budget.

 

[Khourtniey]

I think this describes it well

"Already, the latest participants in the "Food Stamp Challenge" are hungry and humbled."

I like how they broke it down in servings.. but I would assume that most of them were not actually eating the right amount per serving..

 

[Belleweather]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Thinker I feel that the main problem is that people are not educated on how to prepare healthy foods for their families on a budget. Frozen veggies are great, and often go on sale. Beans and oatmeal are great CHEAP staples.

I think this is part of my point -- I don't think we can put a program into place that forces all food stamp recipients to get lessons in cooking or making wise choices in the supermarket because seriously... where would we start? There are some people who need to learn everything from what goes in which pan, to people who just need a little help understanding how to stretch their dollar. (More importantly, the idea that we can all cook healthily presumes that everyone who is poor has access to pots, pans, a fridge, space to store food, things to store it in, and the other pieces of a working kitchen, which unfortunately isn't universal.)

But I'm totally floored that that kind of information isn't even AVAILABLE to food stamp recipients... and I looked! (I was thinking I could use a bit of a refresher on combining amino acids into complete protiens) I asked our worker, I looked on-line, I called the county and they had nothing to give me and nothing to recommend besides contacting the ag department at our local college.

I mean, if there's a federally-funded 24 hour hotline I can call with questions about canning food, they can come up with something about family nutrition for food stamp recipients!

 

[dharmamama]

Have you tried your county extension office?

dm

 

[gossamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Sweeties1Angel We currently get around $350/month in FS for me, DH, a 6yo, a 2yo, and an infant. It's enough for us to eat mostly healthy on (and buy a little junk now and then), but we live in a LCOL area. We don't get WIC, just FS. We're eligible for WIC, but I'm lactose intolerant and the kids don't drink much milk (and we can't get anything but cow's milk here) so there's no reason for me to drive 30+ miles to the WIC office.

I don't know if you know this but where I live, WIC also pays for things like peanut butter, whole grains, beans and rice. Things like that. It is more than just dairy products. It might be worth you looking into.
Gossamer

 

[Emmeline II]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belleweather Apparently, you have exceedingly well-behaved children. I have one toddler, and he cannot handle shopping for longer than 20 minutes. We let him pick out produce, let him hold things and give him toys in the cart, but after a half an hour he's screaming and trying to commit toddler suicide by tossing himself out of the cart onto his head. :

:

My SIL can shop with her 4yo and 2.5yo walking beside the cart, while it is a strggle for me to keep my 3yo and 1yo seated and not flipping out in some way. This is with letting them play with the contents of my purse and snacks.

 

[Gendenwitha]

Family of five, four of which eat solid food, and we spend about $600-700 on a totally carnivorous, non-frugal, gluten-free, dairy-free, feeding extra kids on the weekends, menu. We spent WAY less before we were CF/GF. We got FS once and it was about twice as much as we actually spent on groceries when we were pretty frugal. But it takes TIME because we make everything from scratch.

 

[mamamoo]

I seriously need some pointers on how to stay under our food stamp amount every month. The last week we are usually eating just beans and rice, no fresh fruits or veggies. I think part of it is that we are usually pretty deprived during that last week, so when I get the next months fs I go crazy with fruit for two weeks, and we just eat it like crazy, then I run into the same issue. LOL
We get $541 for 5 of us, and I am pregnant nursing 2 kiddos(and fat, so I eat a lot at this point to keep from feeling faint). 6 of us on weekends(my husband comes to visit then). We don't do a lot of treats, but I do drink some pepsi (total

: I am trying to stop, I did wean myself to reg from diet when I got pregnant).

We do a lot of beans and rice(dry, cook them myself), which are super easy, black beans take me an hour when I do an over night, or quick soak. Don't put salt ni them while they are cooking(it seems like they never get done when I put salt in them), add it when they are soft.

My kids can go through fruit like there is no tomorrow, and I hat elimiting them, but I guess it woul dbe better than going without for a week every month. We also get WIC. A box of cereal lasts 2-3 days, and I never buy it, just use the wic stuff.

Anyway, I am always shocked when people say they give too much money for fs. I can't even buy organic food with this amount of fs and keep fresh stuff in the house. I get my bread at the bread store(good breads for about $1 a loaf), we don't do much meat at all, maybe once or twice a week.

Off to read the article now. LOL

 

[mamamoo]

hmmm...wish she had a shopping list of what she spent her $120 on. I am skeptical that with a family of four everyone would get all the servings of fruits and veggies with what she was spending her money on.

I think everyone is right though. There is not enough nutritional/cooking info our there for fs participants, same with budgeting info, it seems like a simple idea, to budget your money/fs, but it is somethign I struggle with every single month. I don't think it is a stretch for people who have never done it before to cook beans or rice from scratch. There was a time most of us had never done it before.