I can't even believe I'm posting here -- yucky experience, need your input!

1814 Views 21 Replies 19 Participants Last post by MCatLvrMom2A&X, Sep 12, 2009

velveeta

Discussion Starter · Sep 11, 2009

2

So, I am SUPER against circumcision. It is all I can do not to use ugly words in place of "circumcision". I really am not a fan.

So, I have two beautiful boys, and my 2 1/2 yo got pretty sick this week (high fever, etc), so I took him to the conventional dr. to get a flu test. I am pregnant, and am around a lot of preg ladies, so I didn't want to take him anywhere if it is flu. So that is why we went, for the flu test.

That morning, my trusting DH asked me to ask them about Peter's penis -- he says that it has been hurting the last three mornings, and I noticed it is when he has an erection. I figured it was b/c of this illness deal, but I told my DH that I would ask. So, I asked.

The dr. examined him, and she was gentle -- I was all up in her business making sure of that. Anyway, she said that "by 3, we expect them to retract fully" and that his foreskin was "stuck". Huh!??

So, you examined him for like, 2 seconds, and are now recommending MAJOR surgery for a baby? Major surgery that will scar him forever! Without thinking, I just responded, "well, there's no way in the world I would ever consider that." She just rolled her eyes.

I guess I was just thinking that she looked at my PERFECT little boy, and declared him deformed, requiring corrective surgery. I know it sounds a little defensive. What you have done?

She asked me whether DH was circumcized, and so I said "of course not!" revealing my bias, I think.

She was trying to illustrate how a penis should look, that's why she asked about DH -- I don't think she was trying to get me all riled up. I just can't believe she even mentioned the c-word.

So, I guess what I am asking is -- what *should* you expect for a 2 1/2 year old's penis. I have never tried to retract it because I thought you weren't supposed to. And I asked Peter whether his penis hurts today (b;c he didn't complain today) and he said it doesn't hurt.

Oh, and you'll love this part. When I told dr. that Peter said his penis hurt, she said that at his age, children don't always understand what pain means -- it could be pressure or feeling good. What do you think of that? It sounded a little ridiculous to me, but I will accept that idea if I understand it better. I believe that my kids understand when something hurts.

Your thoughts?

See less See more

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

Apple Girl

· #2 · Sep 11, 2009

What do I think?

I think I'd be finding a new doctor.

Also, I think it's ridiculous to say a 2.5 year old doesn't know the difference between hurt and feeling good. Um... maybe that's why she's so pro-circ? My 1.5 year old knows when things hurt! I'd be looking for a new ped.

MyBoysBlue

· #3 · Sep 11, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by velveeta

View Post

Oh, and you'll love this part. When I told dr. that Peter said his penis hurt, she said that at his age, children don't always understand what pain means -- it could be pressure or feeling good. What do you think of that? It sounded a little ridiculous to me, but I will accept that idea if I understand it better. I believe that my kids understand when something hurts.

I do believe this. My son who is now 7 told us it hurt back when he was about 4. I then asked him what he meant. He said it felt funny. DH told him to show him what hurt and DS had an erection. It wasn't painful but he wasn't completely retractable and it was putting pressure on the places where it was still adhered, so I think there was an element of pain in with the pleasure. Which was why he was saying it hurt even though it wasn't really painful. At least that was what we figured because, he didn't react as if he was in pain.

Oh and yes your right nothing wrong with your boy being unable to retract yet. The average age is 10.

See less See more

pdx.mothernurture

· #4 · Sep 11, 2009

I think that sometimes children will describe other strange or uncomfortable sensations as "pain" sometimes. When Quinn says something hurts I usually try to get him to describe it or prompt/encourage him to use words like sting, ache, cramp, etc.

He has never had any penis troubles of any kind and he turns 6 next month. He *just* became retractible, on his own/by his own discovery a couple weeks ago. From everything I've read, this is totally and completely normal. I really would love to know where this "3 years" crap came from or why so many doctors get their undies in a bundle that if a toddler's not retractible it's somehow problematic. It's a totally clean environment under there until there's a way for foreign material to get underneath, right? Gah.

Anyway, I'm sorry to hear about your experience. There are some good resources you can print and take to your doctor to help inform them about what's normal when it comes to retraction. Here's one: http://doctorsopposingcircumcision.o...etraction.html

Jen

See less See more

isabchi

· #5 · Sep 11, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by velveeta

View Post

Oh, and you'll love this part. When I told dr. that Peter said his penis hurt, she said that at his age, children don't always understand what pain means -- it could be pressure or feeling good. What do you think of that? It sounded a little ridiculous to me, but I will accept that idea if I understand it better. I believe that my kids understand when something hurts.

Your thoughts?

Find a new doctor!!...

My 13 mo. hit his head with the corner of the table yesterday,and my DH asked him where it's hurt? . He point out the back of his head.
I'm so tired that some people assume that little kids are incapable of express themselves. Maybe, you LO not had a full vocabulary, but I'm sure He can descriminate between something that hurt or not!..

See less See more

velveeta

Discussion Starter · #6 · Sep 11, 2009

Thanks for all the great replies. That is what I thought. We normally go to another practice, I just went there b/c it's closer -- who knew it would be so crazy! I was so surprised to find a dr. today who is pro-circ. I know, I am living in a dream world.

I won't go back there. Funny -- I was referred to this practice b/c they were supposedly supportive of the non-vax choice. That turned out to be SO not true -- they ask you to sign a waiver if you don't vax, and also if you choose to take the "risk" of co-sleeping. OMG!

Monkeygrrl

· #7 · Sep 11, 2009

My boys don't fully retract - they are 6 and 3. My 3yo plays with his enough, though, that it won't be long before it is. lol

It's not always easy to find a new doc, as others are suggesting. Especially a good one that respects every other decision you make. (I'm thinking of my own experiences here. My doc trusts me with everything - except vaccinations. Then he argues with me. *sigh*) Maybe you could take in some information for her to read the next time you are in, and help educate her on intact penii and just how long it takes the average child to become retractable (if she will take it).

peace...
Margaret

Ruthla

· #8 · Sep 11, 2009

I just want to chime in on the "boys don't always know what hurts" point.

Kids learn "hurt" for a strong unpleasant sensation. Sometimes, when they first get erections, it causes a strong sensation and maybe theyr'e not sure if it's pleasant or not. So, with their limited vocabulary, they describe the feeling as "hurting" when it isn't always what we'd think of as pain. It's also possible that there WAS some pain, but it was still part of a normal process- the skin pulling a little too much because the underlying tissue grew faster than the skin did. The main point I'm trying to make is that "it hurts" doesn't necessarily mean that anything is wrong.

Yes, boys get erections even in infancy, but as they get older they can start getting bigger/more intense erections than they had before. I think it happened to DS around age 2, and he did describe it as painful at first.

jocelyndale

· #9 · Sep 11, 2009

Yeah, when my two year old says his penis hurts, what he generally means is, "I have an erection and my diaper is too tight against it. I'm uncomfortable." But being two, he's not going to say all that. He's going to say, "Mommy, peener hurts. Mommy take off diaper?"

I've asked him if it hurts like a skinned knee or if it just feels different. And "different" is the term he chooses.

He also refers to eggs and mangos as spicy. He's allergic to them. I suspect they make his mouth itch (not that he's had them since the nasty allergic reactions) and he remembers that sensation. They're certainly *not* spicy and he does eat (and likes) spicy foods! So we talk about what words mean and how to use them and offer him alternatives.

As for his penis--if he retracts in toddlerhood, I assume I'll know. If it happens later, I may never know.

I'm certainly not messing with it.

See less See more

Yulia_R

· #10 · Sep 11, 2009

My 4+yo is not even close to being retractable. Totally normal! Only 50% of the boys retract by the age of 10.
The doctor had no business trying to retract him...EVER. Under no circumstances.

13Sandals

· #11 · Sep 11, 2009

so sorry about your experience! just wanted to reassure you - as with other posters - one of my sons took a long time to be able to fully retract. Its foggy in memory now - but it was past the age of 7. my second son was fully retractable by age 2. its very individual and too bad the doc is so poorly informed. lets send her some flyers!!!

glongley

· #12 · Sep 11, 2009

If you do decide not to return to these doctors due to your experience, PLEASE send them a letter of feedback about the pressure or misinformation you got from them.

Send them info on the normal age of retractability.
http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...kinleaflet.pdf

Send them the Fleiss article.
http://www.mothering.com/protect-you...advice-parents

They need the feedback, otherwise they will keep giving bad advice, and putting intact boys at risk of unnecessary interventions.

Gillian

akat

· #13 · Sep 11, 2009

Fully retracted by 3, no way. Everything I've read said *some* kids retract 'as early' as 3 or 4. It's totally normal not to fully retract until puberty!

Look for a new doctor, or if you can't, do some research and educate her. I wouldn't feel able to trust her about other things, though, knowing she's so misinformed about this. What else is she misinformed about?

My son was really disturbed by his erections around that time. It took me a little while to realize he didn't understand what was happening and felt confused and worried by them. He would say, 'My penis! It won't go down!' in a wail and he would mess with it, the exact opposite of what would make it 'go down'. Haha, poor little guy. It seemed like he would also get erections when he had to pee, which made it harder to pee.

Once I realized, I told him that it's normal, that all penises do that, that Dad's does it [lol], and that the way to 'make it go down' was to leave it alone. And I had to tell him over and over. His issues with it went on for a long time, maybe a year he would complain about it. Also during this time he played with it *constantly* and sometimes the tip was red/irritated. But he didn't have an infection. I think we put a little cream on the tip, I can't remember.

Now that he's 5, the 'phase' is over and it's not an issue. He does seem to be fully retracted now, but it didn't happen until about 4.5 I think. And he did play with it ALL THE TIME. When he was 'working' on retracting it, he would say, "Mom! Look! Look what I can do!!" lol.

See less See more

ThomasL

· #14 · Sep 12, 2009

Regarding the last thing the doctor said I would have looked at the doctor crossed eyed an asked does that mean if my child was crying saying something hurt he could actually be having an orgasm?

PuppyFluffer

· #15 · Sep 12, 2009

Am I the only one totally skived out that she asked about your husband's private parts? I mean WTF!!!

titania8

· #16 · Sep 12, 2009

2

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer

View Post

Am I the only one totally skived out that she asked about your husband's private parts? I mean WTF!!!

seriously! how is that any of her business??? what does it have to do with *anything*??

:

See less See more

eepster

· #17 · Sep 12, 2009

I just skimmed the rest of the thread, so I maybe repeating.

First, she should not be trying to retract your DS's foreskin in the first place. This can cause damage and infection.

Not being retractable at 3 yo, is perfectly normal. (though it's also normal to be retractable, there is a very broad range of normal.)

What she said about the pain was sort of right, but mostly wrong. Children certainly know if they are in pain or not, but they sometime say that thing which feel strange "hurt" b/c they lack the language to express themselves fully. Frankly though, since he has only been saying it for 3 days and he is sick and has a fever, she should have taken it seriously. She should have asked for a urine sample, to check for UTI. It's odd that she didn't since they often do go over board in the other direction and check intact boys for UTIs when it is a real long shot.

sapphire_chan

· #18 · Sep 12, 2009

I know basically nothing about little boy penises other than you wash the intact ones like a finger, but even I know it's common for them not to retract fully to age 7.

A doctor has no excuse for that ignorance.

Storm Bride

· #19 · Sep 12, 2009

6

Quote:

Originally Posted by velveeta

View Post

The dr. examined him, and she was gentle -- I was all up in her business making sure of that. Anyway, she said that "by 3, we expect them to retract fully" and that his foreskin was "stuck". Huh!??

So, you examined him for like, 2 seconds, and are now recommending MAJOR surgery for a baby? Major surgery that will scar him forever! Without thinking, I just responded, "well, there's no way in the world I would ever consider that." She just rolled her eyes.

I guess I was just thinking that she looked at my PERFECT little boy, and declared him deformed, requiring corrective surgery. I know it sounds a little defensive. What you have done?

She asked me whether DH was circumcized, and so I said "of course not!" revealing my bias, I think.

She was trying to illustrate how a penis should look, that's why she asked about DH -- I don't think she was trying to get me all riled up. I just can't believe she even mentioned the c-word.

Did she actually say that? She thinks a penis "should" be without a foreskin?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer

View Post

Am I the only one totally skived out that she asked about your husband's private parts? I mean WTF!!!

Yeah - that would bug me, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jocelyndale

View Post

As for his penis--if he retracts in toddlerhood, I assume I'll know. If it happens later, I may never know.

I'm certainly not messing with it.

This. DS2 became retractable several months ago, before he turned four, and we all knew, because he was proud of his new "trick". DS1? He stopped being naked around the house all the time at about age 6. He stopped being naked in front of me ever at about age 9. At that time, he wasn't retractable. I have no idea if he is now (he's 16), and I really don't care. His penis is none of my business.

See less See more

sapphire_chan

· #20 · Sep 12, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by velveeta

View Post

...and also if you choose to take the "risk" of co-sleeping. OMG!

Wait, now 'over-laying' is a problem for active 2 1/2 year olds? Or is it your 6yo who's 'at risk' from bedsharing?

These people, I do not think they are thinking.

See less See more

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.