[Heavenly]

I am just at my end. I am completely shut down. I just feel absolutely no emotion right now. He is just so... I don't know. He doesn't listen to a word I say, he trashes the entire house, he hits his sister and me, talks back to me, is rude to me. I do not like him at all anymore. I love him because he is my son but as a person I don't like him. I can't stand to be around him. I know this sounds horrible. It horrifies me that I actually think that I would be much happier if he were somewhere else - day care or preschool or something. DH doesn't understand, when I try and talk to him about it he just tells me to calm down and be gentle with Elijah. Yeah right, if that would work I wouldn't be on the verge of a nervous breakdown right now. I have not spoken to either of the kids in half an hour because I am scared of what I will say. I'm not scared I will phsyically hurt him, don't worry about that. I am just apathetic. I can't cope with this. I am not just a mommy-slave, I'm a human being. But of course my feelings don't matter, I'm just supposed to be his personal punching bag and slave and be treated like garbage in return. I don't want to be a mommy anymore!!!!!

Edited to add - and no there is no one who can give me a break.

 

[lauraess]

Shawna>>> Im so sorry you are going thur this. I know it is tough, although im not in your exact situation, I think I can relate a bit. I have been feeling like a slave lately also, giving giving trying trying and Wham bam thankyou maam. It's difficult as he#$ to do sooo much and never get an ounce of thanks and than on top of it to feel like theres no respect as well. I dont want to advise you. You are not asking for that are you??? I suspect you've searched for just what to do or not do. Im sure your husband Means well, It's all he can do. Of course, they are terribly lacking in the right ways to support a mom, arent they??? I've actually had a rant once were I pretty much said we DESEREVED to have Flowere EVERYDAY! The next day he brought them. He,he.
I hope you can find someway to have peace with this. I feel for you mama. IT must be so hard, it seems, with a son like that. You do have support here. If you dont have support there, how can you find it??? I once put an ad in the grocery store for a friend and playmate for myself and son. it seemed kinda silly and weird but i did it and it worked.
Please, breathe deeply and know it will all be okay. REALLY

laura

 

[Mama J Rock]

to you! I remember when my son was 3, I found myself not liking him very much. I had thought when I made it past the 2's it was supposed to be better but 2 was nothing compared to 3.

I know you said you can't get a break right away, but try to plan one soon. You need to take a few hours and rejuvenate. It's a hard age, they're big enough to understand a lot and yet still too little to act like it. Your dh is right in that you need to be gentle with him, but I'm sure deep down you know that. It does make you feel like you'd feel better if you could just let him have it but you also know that it won't.

When I get in a rut like that where I don't like my kids very much I try to step back and remember that it means I need to work harder as a parent. Try to be on the front end of his behavior and fend off as much of it as you can be being 100% focused on playing and interacting with him (alongside your dd of course). If at all possible, let the rest of the things around the house slide and just play with them. He may be acting out to get your attention because he doesn't have the cognitive understanding of his feelings to say "hey mom, i need you close".

Hang in there. This too shall pass, he just needs some extra time right now.

 

[BunnysMomma]



 

[mammastar]

Oh, poor you! It does sound like you're at the end of your rope - and you've probably not been doing anything 'wrong,' but you may want to try something different.

I agree with maybe showing your post to your husband. I'm guessing he probably doesn't spend as much time with your kids as you do, if he works outside the home. I work outside the home and my husband stays home with our daughter, and I know that lots of days when I get home it is just so much easier for me to be 'patient' with her, because I'm coming to it fresh. Sometimes it's just not possible to respond calmly and cheerfully to your child's outlandish behaviour when it's the twentieth time that day that it's coming at you! That's totally understandable.

How old is his younger sister? Maybe he could use a place that is all 'his,' like a preschool or part-time daycare at a fun place. That's not an admission of failure on your part, it's just a recognition that his needs change over time. Especially where there are siblings, it's nice as they get older to each have their own time and spaces. Sometimes kids are also more receptive to learning social skills in a different environment - it could get him out of his snarky rut. Finally, there's absolutely nothing wrong with you needing a breather, and if you're away from him for a bit (knowing that he's off doing something he enjoys and that is helping him grow and develop), you may find that you enjoy him more when he's with you and that you also like more how you are at those times.

Good luck!

 

[party_of_seven]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BunnysMomma I know that this is not a popular sentiment around here, but if you are actually at the point where you dislike your son, perhaps you should find a good preschool or babysitter that you can send him to for a few hours a week. You deserve to be more than just a beleaguered mom to a child you don't enjoy being with, and spending some time with other people who are trained to take care of children is not going to be harmful to your son. Also, it sounds like your daughter deserves a break form your son as well. If he is abusive to her, she needs some time away from that. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your parenting style. I know it's *terribly* unpopular on these boards to advocate disciplining children, but if your son is out of control (which it sounds like he is), it's up to you and your husband to teach him to control himself. I don't hold with the idea of letting children express themselves in any way they wish, and I don't believe in the idea that parents should never discipline their kids because it's disrespectful to them. (And I'm not saying that you believe these things either ... but since that seems to be the common theme around here, I'm making an assumption.) I try to use gentle discipline with my kids, but I also don't have a problem with hauling them into line when they get out of line and can't find their way back on their own. Self-expression is good; family harmony is better; liking to be with your kid is best of all. Different discipline styles work well with different kids. There is no one-size-fits-all approach. Maybe it's time to find something new.

I totally agree with this. Maybe your son is at that stage where he is really trying to find his boundries. Maybe you need to find a way to be firmer about where those boundries are. I know this may not be a popular idea here, so flame me if you want. I hope you get some support, and hopefully it is just a stage.

Christina

 

[marice]

I second the recomendation to find some kind of pre-school program. My dd is 3 and she goes 3 days a week for just 2 hours, but having time away from me where she is interacting with kids her own age is great for me and her. She loves it, she wants to go to school everyday! And having just a few hours break from each other helps our relationship a lot, I can be a less frustrated mama and she acts better at home when she has burned off some energy.

I think all SAHM's need a break now and then for our sanity and everyone has felt what your feeling to some degree.

 

[HollyBearsMom]

Quote:

Perhaps you should re-evaluate your parenting style. I know it's *terribly* unpopular on these boards to advocate disciplining children, but if your son is out of control (which it sounds like he is), it's up to you and your husband to teach him to control himself. I don't hold with the idea of letting children express themselves in any way they wish, and I don't believe in the idea that parents should never discipline their kids because it's disrespectful to them. (And I'm not saying that you believe these things either ... but since that seems to be the common theme around here, I'm making an assumption.) I try to use gentle discipline with my kids, but I also don't have a problem with hauling them into line when they get out of line and can't find their way back on their own. Self-expression is good; family harmony is better; liking to be with your kid is best of all. Different discipline styles work well with different kids. There is no one-size-fits-all approach. Maybe it's time to find something new.

I am not quite sure if you are reccomending corporal punishment but I hope not because that is not the answer.

Heavenly-

it sounds like you really do need a break. I know that you believe that there is no one who can give you that break but maybe you could call the parent crisis hotline? They may have resources available to help you find someone to help you out or someplace you could afford to take you son. Or maybe just the act of actually speaking to someone IRL, over the phone might be cathartic? I also second printing out this posting for you husband so he can understand the full extant of your feelings. I know when I get past the pint of no return and try to talk to my husband my emtions get in the way so all he does is try to calm me down not deal with what is causing the problems.

Good luck to you and if I lived near by I'd offer to help!!

 

[BunnysMomma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HollyBearsMom I am not quite sure if you are reccomending corporal punishment but I hope not because that is not the answer.

No, absolutely not. Discipline is not a synonym for corporal punishment. But I do know that a lot of people here don't think that children should have parentally imposed consequences (punishment) for their behavior, and I heartily disagree with that.

Wilma

 

[Piglet68]

BunnysMomma: in general, I love your posts, and find myself nodding right along with you on so many issues, so if I sound a bit "vehement" here, it's partly because I'm just shocked to read a post of yours that "sets me off" (usually I'm cheering you along)...but I am also upset because your post is perpetuating a negative and false stereotype of something that is strongly advocated for at MDC.

Quote:

I know it's *terribly* unpopular on these boards to advocate disciplining children...

That is so not true!

This is a HUGE misconception about GD. The word "discipline" is *right in the title* (gentle discipline). All children need discipline and there is not a single mama here who would say otherwise. GD is about acheiving discipline while keeping the child's self "intact", about solving the root causes of behaviours, rather than simply suppressing the behaviour by virtue of your bigger size and stronger power. It is absolutely NOT about "letting kids get away with whatever they want".

People who don't discipline their kids are in no way "GD". I am so tired of being compared to lazy or ineffective parents (and Heavenly, I am in no way referring to you here!).

Quote:

....if your son is out of control (which it sounds like he is), it's up to you and your husband to teach him to control himself.

Or, you could try to find out why he's acting like this and solve the problem at its root, rather than putting a bandaid on it by making his behaviour conform to some "standard" by sheer force of size or will. Yes, there are guidelines and no, hitting should never be allowed. But while taking measures to stop the hitting, never lose track of the fact that there is a root cause for that hitting that needs to be addressed and dealt with. Your basic punishment/time out methods will never address this, and the negative feelings and issues will simply be expressed in some other undesireable form of behaviour. Which you keep quelling with punishment until one day your child has a life of their own outside the home, and starts taking out their negative emotions when you aren't around to punish them, or by self-abuse like drug overuse, etc.....

Quote:

...I don't hold with the idea of letting children express themselves in any way they wish, and I don't believe in the idea that parents should never discipline their kids because it's disrespectful to them. (And I'm not saying that you believe these things either ... but since that seems to be the common theme around here, I'm making an assumption.)

Yes, you are making an assumption. A HUGE assumption which is not only NOT TRUE, but is hurtful and defaming to the concept of Gentle Discipline.

GD is NOT "letting your kid do whatever they want".
GD is NOT "letting your kid hit and punch you"
GD is NOT "doing nothing to discipline your kids".
"Discipline" is NOT "disrespectful to children", and no GD advocate would say that. It's HOW you choose to discipline them that can be disrespectful or not.

Quote:

I try to use gentle discipline with my kids, but I also don't have a problem with hauling them into line when they get out of line and can't find their way back on their own.

Maybe GD isn't a high priority for you (and that's okay - just b/c it is for me doesn't mean it has to be for you) BUT....if there are mamas who want to use GD (or learn more about it), then I think it does them a disservice to not only promote incorrect and negative stereotypes of what GD is, but also to suggest that it can never function as a complete system in and of itself. (and given that you don't seem to understand what GD is, it seems doubly unfair to report that it doesn't always work for you, kwim?).

Not everybody has to resort to "hauling them into line"...it's a matter of priorities. Again, I'm not saying your method is any better or worse than mine, I'm just saying that you seem to be dismissing GD while at the same time perpetuating misconceptions and false stereotypes about what GD is. If GD is a priority to you, there is never a need to resort to "hauling them in line"...you simply go out and educate yourself further, just as you would if you developed mastitis and people told you to just switch to formula. If you don't care either way, then go ahead and take the easy way and switch. But if formula is not an option for you, then go and find out more about mastitis and how to deal with it.

Heavenly: I have heard that 3 is a tough age all around. I encourage you to visit the Gentle Discipline forum because it is FULL of moms who can not only sympathize, but give you tons of fabulous suggestions as to what you can to do help. Personally, it sounds like your son's behaviour is a reflection/expression of what is going on inside him emotionally. NO, you do not have to accept being kicked or hit, nor should anyone else in your family. I also agree with bunnysmama that a babysitter or something could give you the mental break YOU need. But obviously that doesn't solve the issue at hand.

Gentle Discpline is all about Discipline...EFFECTIVE discipline. Discipline that solves the root cause of the problem. It's hard work, and even those of us who couldn't dream of doing anything other than GD are hard pressed to come up with solutions sometimes. The mamas on that board are always full of such wisdom and great ideas and insights....I think it would help you alot.

 

[BunnysMomma]

Piglet, sorry to have disappointed you. I know that I have a lot of different ideas about discipline than a lot of people here do, and it's probably a result of my upbringing, which I feel has had very good results not just for me but for a lot of people from my "culture" of origin (which I'm assuming you know of from reading the swearing thread).

I just wrote out a huge long response to you that I don't feel adequately addressed the things you pointed out, and I don't think that I can right now, so I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree.

Wilma

 

[BunnysMomma]

Ok, because I don't want to be thought of as some ogre who's mean to my kid or some ignoramous who doesn't know of what I speak, I'll try briefly to explain myself.

First, I was speaking more of TCS than GD (I should have made that more clear), and I know that there are a lot of TCSers here. I don't agree with TCS.

Second, I don't believe that every behavior exhibited by small children, especially, and even bigger children has some underlying psychological component. When my 3-year-old wants a bowl of ice cream right before dinner, I don't give it to her, and then she cries. I don't see this as a psychological issue, and I don't try to get to the root cause of it. She wants ice cream, I want her to eat dinner. I win, because I'm the adult and I know more about nutrition than she does. I don't yell at her to stop crying, but I do tell her that crying is not going to change my mind.

Third, I believe that there are certain behaviors that must be stopped immediately (hitting, especially of younger children, being one of them) and that stopping the behavior in the here and now is more important than mining the pyschological cause of it. That can come after the behavior has been nipped in the bud.

So yes, I believe in being gentle to children (no hitting them, screaming at them, demeaning them, etc.) but no, I guess I'm not an adherent of GD as a set philosophy of guidelines to follow. In general, I don't follow any set philosophies because I never agree with any of them 100%.

Wilma

Ps. When is used the words "gentle discipline" in my original post, I wasn't thinking of GD as a philosophy. I was speaking of discipline that I consider gentle.

 

[Piglet68]

Bunnysmama: I'm not sure you "got" my point.

I sure don't think you are an ogre, or that you necessarily even use punishment. I don't know enough about your discipline philosophies to comment (and I can't even remember offhand what your cultural background is without going back and looking at that thread). I do know that I usually like your posts alot, so if pressed would probably put money on "she's a caring, gentle mother".

The point of my post was not the method YOU use, and whether or not that method is effective, appropriate, or whatever. Not my place to say, and not what this thread is about. I don't like seeing you feeling like you have to defend yourself. You don't! Not to me, anyway.

The point of my post is that you made some gross generalizations about what people "on this board" think about "discipline". Or, more accurately, you suggested that we advocate against it. Since MDC has a board devoted specifically to Gentle Discipline, I felt it was important to address the misrepresentation of the preferred (advocated) methods of discipline used here. I know there are some who practice TCS, but I have not seen that advocated here "en masse". And I'm wondering if TCS advocates would find your description of what they do correct (don't know enough about it to comment myself).

Note: I'm not writing this as a moderator, some "protecter of the MDC faith"...I'm writing this as a passionate MDC mama, and frequent poster/contributor to the GD board.

I think I know enough of your posts to know you are level-headed mama as interested as the rest of us in what is best for your kids. And, like all of here, you have your own unique ways of doing things. I wasn't trying to cast any judgment on you, your methods, or anything like that.

I just wanted to make it clear what GD *is* and what it *isn't* and where you were incorrect in your stated assumptions about it. It pains me to see the stereotype of a GD parent as unwilling to discipline, unwilling to set limits, letting their children "rule the house", etc.....especially perpetuated by an established and contributing member such as yourself.

I'm not saying you have to be "GD" to be a good parent. I just don't want to see GD painted in a negative (and untrue) light.

 

[BunnysMomma]

Heavenly, I'm sorry your thread got hijacked. I never meant my original post to be an indictment of anyone else's parenting philosophies or practices. I guess I didn't express myself well. What I wanted to express is that maybe it's time to try a different approach. I have tried many different things at many different times with my daughter (and my various foster kids) and sometimes it's been the most unexpected things that have bridged the gap, solved the problem, and brought us closer together. I hope that you are able to find someone to support you, someone to give you a break, and something that works for you and your family.

Wilma

 

[Marsupialmom]

You sound emotionally like I was when our world was falling apart.

I was to stress to use good Gentle Discipline techniques. My child was to stress to learn and be receptive to them.

I was recommended 1,2,3 Magic. I would recommend you get and use it until you reclaim yourself and home.

 

[captain optimism]

So, as the future mother of a three year old I would like to know how gentle discipline for an out of control three year old would look. I've seen some good and some not so good models in real life.

One thing I've seen that looked effective was taking the child away from what my favorite parenting book calls "lousy local conditions." That is, if they can't handle being at the park anymore, take them home. If they can't behave when they haven't had a nap, then they need a nap.

One thing I've seen that looked not at all effective was from my neighbor. She is probably the most effective parent of older children I've ever seen, but when her children were little, she set them up to fail so many ways! She didn't enforce bedtimes, she fed them sugar for breakfast as a treat

and she often let them play in another room in public space, thinking that they could supervise themselves. It was like, she thought that they would learn to handle it. And five or six years later, they did!

Anyway, I'm sure you are somewhere on the spectrum between the ideal parents who are super careful about putting their children in difficult situations, and the parents who are careless about that.

 

[LoveBeads]

Okay. First of all, Piglet you totally ROCK MY WORLD! I couldn't have put it any better. I am also so tired of people assuming that Gentle Discipline (or as I prefer to call it, Positive Discipline) is NO discipline. It is about 100 times more work than "traditional" discipline methods and the rewards are beyond any description.

Heavenly, my daughter just turned 4. I really, really, really understand how hard the 3's are. I am completely empathizing and sympathizing with you and I wish I could come through the computer, bring you a cup of Chai, and take your kids to the park so you could take a bubble bath.

It would be very helpful if you gave some specifics because it would be easier to say, "try this when he does X" but I will try to help with what you have provided.

First, routine: do you have one? If not, it's probably a good idea to establish one. Breakfast at x time, play, arts and crafts, lunch, nap, run errands, whatever.

Second: nutrition. Is your son getting sufficient protein? I can't tell you the difference in my DD after she eats a spoonful of peanut butter or a cheese sandwich - totally chases away the crankies.

Third: rest. Is he getting enough sleep? Is there an enforced nap or "quiet" time? I moved DD's bedtime one half hour earlier and it is like having a different child in certain ways, she really wasn't getting enough rest.

Is he very verbal? He needs to start learning to deal with his frustration by using words instead of his hands. Every single time he raises his hands to you, catch them (if you can!), squat down and look him in the eye, and gently explain to him that you like when he uses his arms for hugging but he needs to use his words when he wants to talk to you. Try to help him find the words while empathizing with him and his feelings.

Fourth: (this is the hardest one) Keep your sense of humor. I know, I know...you probably already hate me after the paragraph above but bear with me. I cannot tell you how many times a day I have avoided a fit by using humor. I just did it tonight! DD wanted some turkey, I don't have any. Of course, I thought I did so I promised her some turkey. When I saw I didn't have any, I took out a piece of cheese and handed it to her. She immediately got PISSED! "Where's my turkey!" I calmly looked at her and said, "that is turkey, isn't it?" She said, "NO! I WANT TURKEY!" I said, "Maddy, I'm sure that's turkey. It's white!" She started to ease up - "it's white but it's CHEESE!" I said, "let me taste it." I did and proclaimed that it was the first ever piece of turkey cheese! She was laughing her head off because I was being very "over the top" and silly in the way I was expressing myself. I even picked up the cheese, held it to my ear and said, "listen, it's saying 'gobble gobble gobble' just like a turkey."

Heavenly, I know that a lot of this is easy to say but I really have been where you are. Sense of humor is the most important diffuser of a bad situation that I have ever used although it is hard to find your sense of humor when you want to crawl under your bed and cry. Try hard, it really will do wonders.

And please keep checking in with us and let us know how we can help.

 

[stafl]

Quote:

never lose track of the fact that there is a root cause for that hitting that needs to be addressed and dealt with.

I so totally agree!! Any sort of discipline won't address what is causing the behavior in the first place.
Have you looked into the chance it might be diet-related? My three year old was having some really big (to me) behavior issues, that must have been at least partly from certain foods in her diet, sugar in particular. but also I was letting her eat food I know she has mild allergies to, just because it is sometimes so hard to get her to eat so I let her eat whatever she wants... and of course, she always craves the food she shouldn't have.

 

[Naughty Dingo]

Hugs to you, you sound so worn emotionally and physically.

My daughter is only 2 so I don't know what you are going through yet. I can only offer encouragment and tell you what works for me. My toddler is a good girl but has her moments. I have found when I look critically that her behavior wears me down and I start to reflect negativity back on her in my attitude, tone, and words. My usual strategies stop working and we both get more frustrated. What turns it around is when I reach deep deep down for some positive energy and focus that back on my daughter. I always find it in me and it always helps.

Now I am not blaming you for your son's behavior, please don't take my words that way OK? I just feel that our children's emotions feed off of ours, and vice versa. I also know how hard it is to focus on the positive when they are offering up nothing but maddening behavior.

I am amazed at how much mothering is a drain of ALL our resorces at times. And then I am amazed at how we always rise to the challenge and manage to keep on giving when we think we can't anymore.

I hope you can find some IRL relief, you need to celebrate yourself too, even if it is lying alone with your eyes closed for 30 unexpected minutes now and then. And please continue to allow the women of this community to lift you up.

You are a good mother doing your best in a tough tough job.

Erika

 

[Leatherette]

Three is a hard age - we are going through that right now. My son has started throwing things around, being messy, ignoring me, laughing and sticking out his tongue at me when I say something about it. Ugh. He has never been like this before.

One thing that has helped: he loves books. If I am "done" and feel like I am going to parent in a way that doesn't feel good to me, I offer to read him a book. We both calm down, and I see again what I really love about him. Then it is easier to get back in the GD swing.

Being out at a kid-friendly area or having a friend of his over also helps.

It really feels like a stage. He is asserting his one-ness and independence. On the flip side, he totally falls to pieces whenever he gets hurt now, which feels developmental, like, I am a big boy, then I am sad and need to cry and hug my mommy. My son does go to pre-school, but I don't know if that is what your son needs.

Today he was a total angel. He was with me all day, did not nap, and it was a great day. Hope tomorrow is a better day for you.

L.