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dd's father (my x) and i have a lot of troubles. we were young and in love, madly in love. we took it too far, too fast. we're both horrible at dealing with things. you know, personal issues, respect for eachother as individuals, etc. we're very immature when it comes to making a relationship last.<br><br>
anyway, i frequently tell him i need space from him and he can't see dd until i'm ready for him to. i know that's wrong of me and it drives him to get blackout drunk every night. yes, he's an alcoholic.<br><br>
he asked to see dd yesterday after allowing me to have over a month of space. he spent all afternoon and evening with her in the mountains with his family.<br><br>
it was a nice change. the only problem is, he came over and asked me to come out to the car (while she slept in her carseat) to talk to him about a few things. he asked me how i was doing and i told him i was doing great. he broke down. not sobbing, just speaking nervously. he said he's in love with me and he wants me to marry him and he hates that we're not a family. i have a feeling dd and i keep him stable, i just don't want that negativity around me all the time. i like talking to him every once in awhile, but it's hard to take on the daily basis. esp while i was pregnant and immediately postpartum i was drowning in his emotion. he is very passionate and emotional. he isn't stable in his heart. stable in mind, but not heart...does that make sense?<br><br>
back to the story: we had a good talk, i obviously held back from saying a lot of things i could have said. but he helped me carry dd and her bags into the house. he stayed on the doorstep, but after saying goodbye to dd he grabbed my face and kissed me. then apologized immediately after. he left and called me about 3 more times on his way home just to apologize.<br><br>
i am very confused about the whole situation. im not sure if i still love him and i want to make it work...or if i left him for all the right reasons.<br><br>
he is trying to improve himself. he told me he is quitting drinking on his 21st birthday. if he were anyone else, i wouldn't believe him...but he did quit smoking cigarettes cold turkey when we found out i was pregnant...he hasnt had a cigarette since, so i know he is capable. he said he has been trying to eat right and gain muscle, and i can really see a difference. he is also seeking therapy for childhood traumas and the trauma of our breakup.<br><br>
i just don't know what to do. i need help.<br><br><br>
anyone?
 

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hon, first of all, you don't drive him to drink. He drinks and blacks out. It's not a normal response to stress.<br><br>
Second, your gut is giving you good advice. You know he's not stable, and you know you have a little one to take care of. Your good heart makes you want to take care of him and help him, but the fact is that you can't mother another adult.<br><br>
It's wonderful that he wants to get better, and I'd applaud him for that. But I would not even consider getting back together with him until he had been sober, stable, and happy in his own life for several years. Even so, the odds of his falling off the wagon repeatedly are very good.<br><br>
Frankly, given the trouble he has with impulse and emotional control, not to mention the booze, I would be concerned about letting him go off with your dd without another adult present, especially in a car. He just sounds too highly strung and unstable. Have you documented the blackouts; has he ever been in an accident while drunk?
 

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jazzbaby9 - i'm sorry but this just reminds me of my ex husband. the drinking, the passing out, the fighting, the ups and downs. he needs to get his act together before you two can have a chance at anything. i would try to distance from him and his negativity. ask for supervised visits or just pick up/drop off in a public place so you are not pulled into his emotional BS.<br>
this will give you time and space to sort yourself out too...<br>
hugs to you mama...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
but what happened to compassion? i want to help him move forward. it must be so lonely for him to do it alone.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jazzybaby9</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13379090"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">but what happened to compassion? i want to help him move forward. it must be so lonely for him to do it alone.</div>
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You cant help him. Only he can. I dont think you should entirely close the door on the possibility that maybe one day you two can be together - but it doesnt sound like now is a good time. I dont necessarily think you should wait years and years for him to prove himself - this is not about proving himself to you really. Its about getting his act together - not for the sake of being with you but because he sincerely wants a better life for himself. You are both very young 21 is NO age. My advice would be to focus on how to make your own and your DDs life better - just the two of you - and encourage him to do the same with his life - again not because he hopes to gain you back, but because he wants to create a decent future involving his daughter at least if not the package.<br>
The first step for both of you to behave more mature would be to work out a decent visitation schedule for your daughter so she gets to have a relationship with her father - and not just when it is convenient. That obviously requires him to be mature about it and NOT drink before or while being with your DD - it requires him to behave responsibly around her. And it requires you to be ready to hand her over say every other saturday - or whatever could work for you.<br>
Maybe - who knows - maybe a couple of years from now you are both more ready to enter a relationship for good - one that is based on trust and respect. It sounds like your guy does have it in him to get his act together. Now encourage him to go do it already.<br><br>
Lots of good wishes to both of you. I hope you can work something good out for the benefit of everyone.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jazzybaby9</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13378985"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">dd's father (my x) and i have a lot of troubles. we were young and in love, madly in love. we took it too far, too fast. we're both horrible at dealing with things. you know, personal issues, respect for eachother as individuals, etc. we're very immature when it comes to making a relationship last.<br><br>
anyway, i frequently tell him i need space from him and he can't see dd until i'm ready for him to. i know that's wrong of me and it drives him to get blackout drunk every night. yes, he's an alcoholic.<br><br>
he asked to see dd yesterday after allowing me to have over a month of space. he spent all afternoon and evening with her in the mountains with his family.<br><br>
it was a nice change. the only problem is, he came over and asked me to come out to the car (while she slept in her carseat) to talk to him about a few things. he asked me how i was doing and i told him i was doing great. he broke down. not sobbing, just speaking nervously. he said he's in love with me and he wants me to marry him and he hates that we're not a family. i have a feeling dd and i keep him stable, i just don't want that negativity around me all the time. i like talking to him every once in awhile, but it's hard to take on the daily basis. esp while i was pregnant and immediately postpartum i was drowning in his emotion. he is very passionate and emotional. he isn't stable in his heart. stable in mind, but not heart...does that make sense?<br><br>
back to the story: we had a good talk, i obviously held back from saying a lot of things i could have said. but he helped me carry dd and her bags into the house. he stayed on the doorstep, but after saying goodbye to dd he grabbed my face and kissed me. then apologized immediately after. he left and called me about 3 more times on his way home just to apologize.<br><br>
i am very confused about the whole situation. im not sure if i still love him and i want to make it work...or if i left him for all the right reasons.<br><br>
he is trying to improve himself. he told me he is quitting drinking on his 21st birthday. if he were anyone else, i wouldn't believe him...but he did quit smoking cigarettes cold turkey when we found out i was pregnant...he hasnt had a cigarette since, so i know he is capable. he said he has been trying to eat right and gain muscle, and i can really see a difference. he is also seeking therapy for childhood traumas and the trauma of our breakup.<br><br>
i just don't know what to do. i need help.<br><br><br>
anyone?</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> His drinking to the point of blacking out has nothing to do with you. I would encourage and support him in getting help. Be his friend in it. Be very clear about your boundaries and those for your daughter while he is seeking treatment.<br><br>
ETA: Can you find a counselor who you trust as well to walk with you through this drama and process things safely with? I think it would be wise to do this for yourself.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>ginger_rodgers</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13379047"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">hon, first of all, you don't drive him to drink. He drinks and blacks out. It's not a normal response to stress.<br><br>
Second, your gut is giving you good advice. You know he's not stable, and you know you have a little one to take care of. Your good heart makes you want to take care of him and help him, but the fact is that you can't mother another adult.<br><br>
It's wonderful that he wants to get better, and I'd applaud him for that. But I would not even consider getting back together with him until he had been sober, stable, and happy in his own life for several years. Even so, the odds of his falling off the wagon repeatedly are very good.<br><br>
Frankly, given the trouble he has with impulse and emotional control, not to mention the booze, I would be concerned about letting him go off with your dd without another adult present, especially in a car. He just sounds too highly strung and unstable. Have you documented the blackouts; has he ever been in an accident while drunk?</div>
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Ginger had given wonderful advice as always. My X was addicted to pills and coke and I thought Ds and I could help him but we can't/couldn't no one can help an addict except the addict themselves.<br><br>
I will tell you what I have told a friend of mine You should do what you have been doing and DO NOT allow him to see your Dd alone. Even when I didn't want to be with X any longer I still wanted to help him that is just the kind of person I am and you seem to be the same and it is so hard to break that I know it is but for your safety and you Dd's safety it would be best to keep distance. If he does clean up his act for a long peirod of time then if you feel the want to try it out again then that would be wonderful. But still becareful and keep and open eye out on him if he does come back into your lives. It is so easy to say that he is not drinking or useing when you know in your gut he is. It is a hard long process not only for him but for yourself also.Remember NOTHING you do can make him drink nobody has that power over another person! Please be safe <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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I can't recommend Alanon highly enough for you. You need to detach and learn to encourage without enabling or being his crutch or reason for doing well or badly with his recovery.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jazzybaby9</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13379090"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">but what happened to compassion? i want to help him move forward. it must be so lonely for him to do it alone.</div>
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jazzybaby, there's a big difference between compassion and trying to go along for somebody else's ride. Yes, it will be lonely for him; that's why there are groups like AA, so that people can struggle alone together. They understand that journey, and, very importantly, don't usually have to live with each other. They can offer each other what support they can without being obliged to be there all the time.<br><br>
You can be supportive and compassionate without living with him or being in a romantic relationship with him. And I second the idea that a good counselor or therapist can help you figure out how to walk that line.<br><br>
Your first responsibility is to that child. Her father can be part of her life, yes. But she must be protected from his addictions and instability.<br><br>
I want to tell you about my very favorite aunt, a woman I loved wildly, who was addicted to drugs and alcohol, and probably mentally ill, too. But she was so much fun, and so glamorous, and she played with me. As a young child, I was never left in her care, and even when I was older, I was never alone with her for long. Even when she came to visit us and was drinking, I didn't really know what she was doing, because we didn't have any other alcoholics my family or my grandparents'.<br><br>
I found out why I hadn't been left alone with her when I got to be college-aged and went to visit her on my own, and stayed with her. It was a terrible shock. There's no other way to say it: Her life was sick, ugly, and sad. I wanted to do something for her but knew instinctively that there was nothing I could do. My grandparents supported her quite a bit, but her place was a run-down, roachy mess; she had obviously no-good men in and out, she wanted me to get high with her, and she was not, absolutely not, a happy woman. I stayed in touch with her, though, until a few years later, when she took to calling me and waking me up at 2 am mid-fight (she'd been fighting with me in her head). After a while I decided I just had to stop talking to her. There was nothing I could say, nothing anyone could say, that would reach her through the addictions and illness and unhappiness.<br><br>
She died about ten years ago; she'd poisoned herself over the years, and my grandmother had to help her through the process of dying. A few years ago, going through old letters, I found the ones she'd sent me while I was at camp...and oh, it was terribly sad. She'd loved me too, but she was so lost in herself; she'd written me all kinds of inappropriate things about men and my grandmother, and somehow seemed to think of herself as perpetually 14. She'd been trying to talk me into sneaking away from my mom and going road-tripping with her, and she went on extended fantasies about the men and rock stars we'd meet. Of course, at 13, I thought that was incredibly cool. Now...no, it wasn't.<br><br>
jazzy, I cannot imagine the nightmare it would've been to have grown up with my aunt in the house. She brought drama everywhere she went; she always had something in a cast or sling, and she fought with everyone. Everyone was against her. Everything was someone else's fault, or else perfect people were putting her down for being human and having a soul; they were exhausting her and making her sick. Her loves and emotions were more real and sincere than anyone else's. And, of course, when she drank, she was mean. Mean like a serrated knife. Not to me, but I was "special" in her mind; I was "the only one who understood her". If we'd lived together, though, I'm sure I would've disappointed her in short order.<br><br>
Don't do it to your child or yourself. Give your child health, sanity, and stability. They may not sound very exciting to you, but they're crucial. And I agree with others -- you are still so young, and still going through the tail end of adolescence yourself, which is a drama all by itself. I think the idea of finding a counselor is a very good one, and if there is an agency with a teen-mom support group in your area, that might be a good place to start, even though you're not technically a teenager anymore. I don't mean at all to put you down for being young -- I sometimes miss the highs and lows of my early 20s myself. But it's good to have a counselor you trust to turn to for advice and venting, someone with solid judgment who's looking out for you and your child.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>homewithtwinsmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13380880"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I can't recommend Alanon highly enough for you. You need to detach and learn to encourage without enabling or being his crutch or reason for doing well or badly with his recovery.</div>
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This, too. I'd hesitated to recommend it because there are so many spouses involved who are trying to stick by the marriage, and the difficulty letting go may look attractive, or like a rationale to join the ranks of the martyred. But an Alanon counselor should be able to speak to that.
 

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your ex sounds very much like my son's father. i have not been in contact with him in over a year - although i would very much like for him to be a part of his life. he is also an alcoholic who took our break-up very hard. when you said he's stable in mind, but not in heart - something just clicked for me. but truthfully, alcoholism causes instability.<br><br>
what i did was to take my emotions out of it (as difficult as it was) and look at the situation at face-value. did i want my son to be around a highly emotional unpredictible alcoholic? i did not - so i told him to go to rehab, clean himself up, then we would see how things could go. this was when i was pregnant - and after he had asked me to marry him. the result? he was devastated and chose not to speak with us again because i was "uncaring and cold." he also told me that I wasn't being there for him during his difficult periods. well, I was pregnant and he was drinking to the point of blacking out every night. was i cold for leaving him? maybe, but i had to put my son's best interests first even though i desperately wanted to help him.<br><br>
i don't know what he's doing right now but the last time he talked to me, he told me he was still battling his demons and drinking and he didn't think a child should be around him. that was a year ago. i am incredibly sad that things turned out this way but i believe it's for the best rather than bringing drama in our lives.<br><br>
since your ex genuinely wants to be a part of your daughter's life - i think you should work out a visitation schedule that allows him to do so and try to stay semi-professional about it. there is nothing you can do that will help him clean up - only he can do it. if he does, and you are still interested in him, then of course you should do whatever you want. but in the meanwhile, don't let yourself fall into the drama again. you left for a reason the first time, didn't you?<br><br>
there is a place for compassion, of course - but don't make things harder on yourself. it is very hard trying to deal with an alcoholic.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>homewithtwinsmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13380880"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I can't recommend Alanon highly enough for you. You need to detach and learn to encourage without enabling or being his crutch or reason for doing well or badly with his recovery.</div>
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I was coming back here to say that Alanon would most likely be benifical. My mother went as a friend of her's is an achoholic and she said it was the best thing she has done for herself in a long time. BUT to search around as they are all set up a little different. Please again becareful my best friend has an acholholic mother and she is sober now for 12 years<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/joy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="joy">:..................... but her daughter went through a lot at times her grandmother had to come and pick her up as her mother was passed out and she couldn't wake her<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> so many other things that I do not wish to share as they are so personal. But again please becareful<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>JustAnotherBrick</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13381085"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br>
what i did was to take my emotions out of it (as difficult as it was) and look at the situation at face-value. did i want my son to be around a highly emotional unpredictible alcoholic? i did not - so i told him to go to rehab, clean himself up, then we would see how things could go. this was when i was pregnant - and after he had asked me to marry him. the result? he was devastated and chose not to speak with us again because i was "uncaring and cold." he also told me that I wasn't being there for him during his difficult periods. well, I was pregnant and he was drinking to the point of blacking out every night. was i cold for leaving him? maybe, but i had to put my son's best interests first even though i desperately wanted to help him.</div>
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I could have written this myself except X is addicted to pills and coke<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"> I was going to edit my other post but when I read that I had to say this... You need to do what is good for you and your Dc not your X yes it does sound mean and cold but he is a grown man and if he wants to get better he will but it needs to be for HIM not YOU or your DC just himself or he will relaps as my X did after being sober for over a year the stress of life got to him and he went under farther than I ever thought humanly possible. so that is why I keep coming back to your post to say things just becauseI have been there wanting so badly for someone with addiction to be okay and to top it off being your dc father I know for me it was so hard to say "no no more go do what you need to do and then maybe just maybe I will talk to you." He said the samething as JAB's X did that I was "cold for leaveing him in this dark place alone" I like JAB was pregnant and scared but sometimes it is hard but we as Mama's need to leave the ones we care for to protect our Dc and ourselves that is not being uncomapassionate it is what needs to be done at certain times. Maybe setting up somewhere for supervised vists for him and your Dd would be good. That way you know that they BOTH are safe.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Seie</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13379188"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">You cant help him. Only he can. I dont think you should entirely close the door on the possibility that maybe one day you two can be together - but it doesnt sound like now is a good time. I dont necessarily think you should wait years and years for him to prove himself - this is not about proving himself to you really. Its about getting his act together - not for the sake of being with you but because he sincerely wants a better life for himself. You are both very young 21 is NO age. My advice would be to focus on how to make your own and your DDs life better - just the two of you - and encourage him to do the same with his life - again not because he hopes to gain you back, but because he wants to create a decent future involving his daughter at least if not the package.<br>
The first step for both of you to behave more mature would be to work out a decent visitation schedule for your daughter so she gets to have a relationship with her father - and not just when it is convenient. That obviously requires him to be mature about it and NOT drink before or while being with your DD - it requires him to behave responsibly around her. And it requires you to be ready to hand her over say every other saturday - or whatever could work for you.<br>
Maybe - who knows - maybe a couple of years from now you are both more ready to enter a relationship for good - one that is based on trust and respect. It sounds like your guy does have it in him to get his act together. Now encourage him to go do it already.<br><br>
Lots of good wishes to both of you. I hope you can work something good out for the benefit of everyone.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: I agree, you cant help him or change him only he can do that. and can I add that he is getting sooooo drunk he passes out and he isnt even of legal drinking age!!!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bigeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bigeyes"> not a good sign.... it can be only the tip of the ice burg of things to come. He is young and this reminds me of my ex... they say one thing and do another. I know this is tough for you but again, there is no need to rush anything, no need for an answer today. Sit back and observe him and see if its for real this time. Ultimately you must do what is best for you and your dd. If he is really serious have him show you by joining a program like AA.
 

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I do not know much about al alon. I have a friend who attends and she finds it beneficial in understanding her parents' addiction to drinking.<br><br>
How are you doing today Jazzy?
 

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I agree that I need to keep my distance and see if he changes. Since that night he has been distant and unresponsive. Red flag
 

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It's still hard feeling such a strong attraction to him. He is what I'm looking for physically and his personality is great. He's funny, incredibly intelligent, he is an amazing poet...and so on. It is just frustrating when I know he is this amazing guy, but his family really f'kd him up and now he's battling his demons.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jazzybaby9</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13419718"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It's still hard feeling such a strong attraction to him. He is what I'm looking for physically and his personality is great. He's funny, incredibly intelligent, he is an amazing poet...and so on. It is just frustrating when I know he is this amazing guy, but his family really f'kd him up and now he's battling his demons.</div>
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Remember that his demons are part of his personality. Though you may have empathy for the reasons he is who he is today, please remember that's not your responsibility, and it doesn't make his behavior any less irresponsible.<br><br>
This must be a very difficult time, I hope you can find some peace.
 
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