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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
but i'm going to put it out there anyway.<br><br>
I have 13-month-old twins who will. not. sleep. ever. I am completely at the end of my rope. I spend all night just hating them because I'm so exhausted, and it doesn't help me to be patient with them all day. I have started feeling lately like I don't even like them. They used to be happy, smiley, independent boys, and now they don't sleep all night and they are whiny, cranky, and clingy all day. All day I have two babies screaming in my face, and all night, too.<br><br>
I feel like we have tried everything. Before they started solid foods, I did a total elimination diet and discovered that they were reacting to soy and dairy, so we have been incredibly careful with their diet. I don't think it's a dietary thing, since all the symptoms around that have cleared up. If it's a bad night and we think it might be teething, we give ibuprofen, even though we hate to do it. We saline and suck out their noses before bed. We nightweaned them a month ago. NOTHING WORKS. I don't know what is keeping them up or how to fix it. I have lost all hope that it will get better.<br><br>
And I have a wonderful, supportive dh who does the nighttime thing until he just can't handle it anymore. He does so much, in fact, that I feel terrible because he is in med school and has to go to class in the morning. But at the same time, I am just so far beyond my limit. I absolutely can't handle it anymore. And yes, I hold a grudge. When I am tired all day (as I am every day), I feel so angry and resentful toward my babies. I have fantasies about just putting them in cribs (which we don't own) and buying earplugs and letting them figure it out on their own. I don't even feel bad for them when they cry at night; I just want them to shut up and go to sleep. I feel like a horrible mama.<br><br>
I am trying to get some help right now for PPD because I think that's part of the problem, although I think that the PPD can also be traced directly back to lack of sleep. I just don't know what to do. I feel like crawling in a hole and crying myself to sleep. Help.
 

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Have you read Elizabeth Pantelys The No-Cry Sleep Solution?<br>
It helped us at one time.<br><a href="http://www.pantley.com/elizabeth/books/0071381392.php" target="_blank">http://www.pantley.com/elizabeth/books/0071381392.php</a><br><br>
(Dunno how old they are, there's one for Toddlers aswell:<br><a href="http://www.pantley.com/elizabeth/books/0071444912.php" target="_blank">http://www.pantley.com/elizabeth/books/0071444912.php</a> )
 

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Oh mama. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> I couldn't read this and not respond. Is there anyway you can drop them off with a friend or relative for a day and just sleep all day to at least catch up a bit on your rest and to recharge at least a teeny bit? Do they sleep with you? Have you tried putting them in a pack and play to sleep away from you to see if maybe it is getting too crowded in your bed? I don't really know what to say, but I have also been at the end of my rope in the middle of the night with my son, and I only have one. We have done the weeks (months?) at a time of not sleeping, and being a zombie during the day is so painful. I think you are having totally normal reactions to sleep deprivation. You need to figure out a way to at least get you some sleep so you can help your babes get the sleep they need too.<br><br>
Sorry I am not offering more helpful suggestions. I hope more come here and offer help. Definitely start calling anyone who has said they would help and get a break for yourself. You so need and deserve it.
 

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my daughter also has allergies, so I know what it is like to be up at night. She has never slept well. You might want to have them checked for reflux, because my daughter also had issues with that. She is also allergic to egg, so there might be something else they are reacting to that you have missed. And a lot of time she just has gas that keeps her up.<br><br>
I would recommend RAST testing or scratch testing (although my daughter has had negative results on the RAST test). And take them to a doctor, because while my daughter still does wake up at night, she goes through phases, so she will wake up every 2 hours for a few weeks, but I can see the teeth so I know that is what it is<br><br>
If they are whiny and cranky all day, I would take them to a doctor and bring up the allergies. Sometimes the only symptoms my daughter shows is trouble sleeping and maybe a small rash. I would guess they may have intolerance to some other foods that aren't giving typical allergic responses<br><br>
Also have you thought about seeing someone for the PPD? I had to use zoloft, because my daughter does not sleep either. I get so jealous of other mothers who kids sleep all night, after 18 months, I had a good night last night because my daughter was only up 3 times.<br><br>
I hope it gets better for you, if you think it might be food related, let me know, maybe we can put our heads together and see if anything helps.
 

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How were they sleeping before you nightweaned them? Is it possible that they are reacting to the weaning? Hugs to you mama<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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My DS never slept well either. At some point, my whole day was about getting him napping and getting him down to bed.<br><br>
Yes, I think lack of sleep is probably the biggest offender in PPD. Eating well can help compensate a little bit for lack of sleep, but it's only a temporary fix.<br><br>
I recently read another post about someone who has twins and they wake each other up...so she keeps them in cribs in separate bedrooms, also not in the same room with mommy & daddy. Is it possible they are keeping each other awake?<br><br>
Have you tried mama sleeping with one twin in one room and daddy sleeping with the other twin in another room?<br><br>
Some other thoughts...<br>
Does driving them down in the carseat work?<br>
Does a swing cause them to get sleepy, or at least relaxed? Is there somewhere you can mount an indoor swing? This saved us for awhile.<br>
We also had an exercise ball and bouncing him on that helped calm him down, many times he would even go to sleep that way.<br>
Does reading to them calm them down?
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> I have often felt the desperation that I hear in your post...I can't imagine going through it with twins! You are an amazing mama for keeping it together for this long. I would say the first thing to do is call in the reinforcements - you need to take a break and get caught up on sleep. There is no shame in asking for help and taking some time to care for yourself. For the next three days, ask your dh to take over nighttime duties while you sleep with earplugs in another room. Drop off the twins at a friend's/relative's house during the day so you can go home to nap. Really, you need to take this time for yourself. After three days, hopefully you'll feel re-energized enough to tackle your twins' sleep issues. Hang in there - better days are ahead.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the support, mamas. I have never felt so awful, and I really don't see any end in sight.<br><br>
I have read the No-Cry Sleep solution. It didn't work.<br>
I have talked to their ped about reflux, food issues, etc. I am pretty sure that we are right on track with that. Any rashes they had have cleared up with the dietary changes.<br>
We thought they might sleep better in their own bed, so they sleep on a queen mattress on the floor in their own room.<br>
It's extremely rare that they wake each other up. Most nights, they trade off so that there is a baby awake at almost every moment of the night.<br>
I don't think they are reacting to the nightweaning; it got better for a couple of nights and then went back to normal. This is normal for us. They have always slept poorly.<br>
Our family lives 3 hours away, so there is no one close by to take them.<br>
We read to them every night. We have a very consistent bedtime and routine. We keep the house cool at night, but not enough for them to be cold. We offer water sometimes at night. I feel like we have literally tried every trick in every book.<br><br>
So I'm totally at a loss, and totally exhausted and angry and i hate everything. This is why I don't think anyone can help me. So I guess I'm starting to think: at what point does CIO become less harmful than hating your babies? (I feel horrible for even thinking that). ugh. help.
 

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Just <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> momma. I'm so sorry. I have one bad sleeper and just that is super hard and demoralizing. I hope that they improve soon. I am praying that DD's sleep improves when she finally has some teeth come through - she only has 2 and she has at least 4 trying to come out for the last month.<br><br>
If you can find someone to watch them for an hour to nap (or have your DH take them for a drive or something on the weekend) so you can nap that would help. It helps me immensely to just know a nap and quiet are on the way. I work f/t, so it's hard for me to catch up, too.<br><br>
Could you and your DH do shifts at night? Like you sleep for a solid 4 hours and then he does? It would mean little sleep for both of you, but at least a few solid hours each. I'd do that if DD was night weaned.
 

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Hi again! Sorry I've been out of touch and as usual it's so hard for all of us southern Maine mama's to get together<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">. Anyways I don't know if I can help but I'm sending lots of sympathizing vibes your way<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/goodvibes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Goodvibes">:. We had lots of trouble with my middle DS waking up throughout the night and the No-Cry book also didn't help. It's amazing how nasty I get when I'm exhausted, I cry through my day and am a complete bitch to my kids<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">. I think eventually he just started sleeping better, but it took at least 6 exhausting months for him to only have 1 wake-up during the night. We also have little support locally but things are getting better, I wish we were a bit closer!! If you get desperate enough please feel free to visit, we've got spare bedrooms and my boys would love to keep yours entertained while you catch up on some much needed rest!! I'm home Tuesdays and most Fridays.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/grouphug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="grouphug"><br>
Sarah
 

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Have you tried to take them to the chiropractor? I know it sounds weird, but sometimes if they are out of alignment it can keep them up at night. Many chiros take insurance, and others offer pretty reasonable rates.<br><br>
Also, did you nightwean them and move them to their own room all at the same time? That might be too much change too fast for them. Maybe you could move their bed back into your room for a while?<br><br>
Good luck, mama!
 

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Oh I wish I could help you. I have twins that are three now and they have a big brother that is four. I can feel your pain. I cried through many a day and also suffered from post-partum depression.<br>
I found it helpful to sleep for 5 uninterrupted hours. For me this was 7 - midnight. Closed my door - no kids - no husband. After that I was on so my husband could get some rest for work.<br>
I must say that my babies did nap and did sleep (for the most part after 4 months). So I can't even imagine how badly you are feeling.<br>
But sleep deprivation is like torture.<br>
Is there a twins support group in your area - maybe you can find some support in being with other Moms. Maybe you tap into them for help with child care. Is there room in your budget to have someone come in to the home and help you. Maybe even while your home - so you can take a tub/shower, nap, etc.<br>
Please don't beat yourself up. No one can no what you are going through.
 

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In another thread, someone recommended Sleepless in America <a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showpost.php?p=12378582&postcount=4" target="_blank">http://www.mothering.com/discussions...82&postcount=4</a><br><br>
I haven't read it myself, but am interested in doing so.
 

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as for the op, my friend has twins a month younger than my babe and it isn't easy. hers usually go down around 7-ish and then the more active one wakes up and comes into bed with her and nurses to sleep, he then gets passed to daddy to cuddle while baby number two gets nursed to sleep.<br><br>
i can only think that you really need to get some sleep!!! i think the previous suggestion of 7-12 being your time to sleep and then your mate goes to sleep and you're on duty.<br><br>
how about a stroller ride? we used to put my ds to sleep in the stroller and then just wheel it inside.<br><br>
or any chance of co-sleeping? maybe if you just sleep on their bed with them so you get sleep too?<br><br>
i hear you on the sleep deprivation though, when i need sleep i find myself eating chocolate chips by the handful and yelling at the dog too much <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"> i wish i was closer to give you a break.<br><br>
good luck mama!!! and huge hugs.
 

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I agree with the hugs in this post but, wow, it seems to me that you need those and the last paragraph (choc chips and a break) more than anything else!<br><br>
I don't know what you should do... can do... will do. But I can tell you my story and maybe you'll feel better and like more of the options you have available.<br><br>
I spent years and years not sleeping (esp with #1) and always being "the one in charge of the kids, 24/7."<br><br>
My situation wasn't as extreme as yours (mine were singletons 3 years apart) but I remember when I lost it. Years of giving and not sleeping.... I really thought I was going to go insane from the "always on, almost 6 years of not sleeping through the night."<br><br>
I talked to a friend who had been admitted to a hospital for a physical/psych eval shortly after the birth of her third child (her issue turned out to be physical, but she had a lot of advice for me!).<br><br>
That made me realize that in my case being admitted wasn't likely to help. I saw my psychiatrist (I have seen one since '91 for anxiety) and he had no specific advice rather than to increase my Xanax. I saw my primary care doc. I had an EKG and a chest X-ray. Nothing.<br><br>
So I LEFT MY HUSBAND AND KIDS FOR OVER 48 HOURS! I checked into a hotel/resort (cost including room service dinner $300 for two days). I slept. I slept. I slept and ate. I read. I slept. I felt crazy... but better.<br><br>
For the next few months my husband was on night-time duty. I put in earplugs and took Xanax so I'd sleep. I felt guilty... but better.<br><br>
After I was restored to myself I took over nights again and have had them for about 3 years. But I needed that break. Sometimes we all do.<br><br>
I wrote this post not as a "you should do this" post, but as an example of a very AP parent's experience. After 7 years of being either pregnant or nursing, always being the one to go to the children at night... that's where *I* ended up. And that's our solution.<br><br>
I hope you find your "right solution" and are happy with it. We're all different. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">s
 

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Hello fellow twin mama!<br><br>
I haven't read all the responses so please forgive me if this is a repeat, but do you think it might be time for cribs? You can get cribs new, used, whatnot- but I know that I had to give up on co-sleeping with my twins at 10 months because they were becoming mobile and I was worried about them crawling out of the cribs that were set up like co-sleepers and then falling off the bed after we put them to bed.<br><br>
They couldn't make it past like 7:00 being up so they needed to go to bed way sooner than I was prepared to.<br><br>
We were sad to put them in cribs but it's really turned out good in the longrun.<br><br>
They never did cry-it-out, they were happy to go to sleep in their cribs. They're happy all sprawled out in there and I can relax knowing they're safe.<br><br>
Maybe they just want their own space?<br><br>
I hope that helps! I'd get a couple of used cribs this weekend at good will or Uncle Henry's or something this weekend and set them up and give it a try. You and your husband can soothe them to sleep and hopefully soon they start putting themselves to sleep. It's not a bad thing if it's peaceful! I love the setup. I feel like we co-slept as long as it was good for everyone and once it became more of a problem then a solution, we stopped and now we all sleep happily independently.<br><br>
Take care, and don't feel badly for your feelings. I remember feeling that way when I was sleep deprived too. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">:<br><br>
I think that them sharing a mattress might be causing problems as well... I just think some toddlers like being in their crib. I know mine do.<br><br>
Toddlers and babies ARE supposed to sleep. They need more sleep than the rest of us do and they're at the age when they can keep themselves up and they don't understand that they need sleep. It's easy to get up and walk off a mattress, but they can't walk off a crib.<br><br>
Do they take sippy cups or bottles at all?<br><br>
My girls get bottles of milk in their cribs if they wake up to help them soothe back down. They don't fall asleep with them in their mouths... and they never did that before but I think they might need more milk at night at this age. They're 16 months old- Anyway, GOOD LUCK!!!!
 

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"It's easy to get up and walk off a mattress, but they can't walk off a crib."<br><br>
Hubby got out of his crib and hid in his room starting at 9 months old.<br><br><br><br>
Since you've tried so much else....<br><br>
chiropractic.<br><br>
craniosacral therapy.<br><br>
rescue remedy (for everyone).<br><br>
visit with a homeopath to find their constitutional remedies that will help them be better in all ways, which might very well help their sleep.<br><br>
make sure you're not drinking coffee or caffeinated tea. My son wasn't sensitive to normal amounts, but one day I had two grande lattes in one day, and for some reason the 4 shots of espresso got to him! we were up all night that night. if you're having caffeine it might be getting to them.<br><br>
I thought I had another, but it disappeared from my brain.
 

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I think it is important for you to catch up on some sleep before you do any changes though. When you are sleep deprived you aren't rational - and you could have a total emotional meltdown at the sound of your babies crying if you did the CIO and the whole thing would backfire and you'd be worse off than when you started.<br><br>
Not only that, it is in your babies best interest if you get some rest. Your disconnection from them sounds like it is reaching a critical point and you don't want to do or say something you would not otherwise do or say if you were rested. Chronic lack of sleep is a seriously debilitating issue. This is priority. If you don't have any family or friends that can take the babies for the day so you can sleep, find an alternative care - like a drop off hourly care center. Even if its pricy, this is priority. Its not a money or convenience issue, its a health issue that is severely affecting you and your children.<br><br>
Better yet, if your town has a "crisis nursery", I would use that. I work for a school district in an early childhood home-visit support program and we recommend our city's crisis nursery to parents who are stressed to the max and just need a break because they are at the breaking point. They take children up to 5 yrs no questions asked for up to 24 hours (even overnight). They will not call CPS or give you a lecture about how to parent. They are wonderful, warm, non-judgemental and a great free resource to stressed out parents. I don't know how you may best find one - does your state have a 211 number to call? Here that is the number to call for any welfare resources needed (food, shelter, medical care, etc). You could also try a web search with crisis nursery and your home city.<br><br>
Please do something to recharge. Even if you have to drive 3 hours to family and recruit their help - do it. I lived 4 hours away from my family and there were times in that 8 years I HAD to go home and get some love and support.<br><br>
In the meantime, sleep every chance you get, even if its only 20 minute naps throughout the day. I fear nothing is going to improve until mamma gets recharged and then you will be fully present mentally and physically to solve this problem. You will know what to do at that point because your mother's intuition will not be clouded by the very real effects of lack of sleep.<br><br>
Wishing you peace and rest and love,<br><br>
Amy
 

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I apologize if this has already been discussed or suggested.<br>
Do they nap during the day?<br>
I've often read and heard that sleep begets sleep. They may be over tired if they're not napping.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">We keep the house cool at night, but not enough for them to be cold.</td>
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Another thing, maybe they'll sleep better if it's warm? I used to jokingly say that I cooked my now 5 yr old to sleep. Realistically though, when he was around the age of 2 he would not take a much needed nap unless we went for a ride in the car and it was slightly warm. I know that I sleep better if I'm slightly warm rather than slightly cool.
 
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