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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2004 Volvo Cross Country station wagon. It has side airbags/curtains in the back. It also has built in booster seats, which are basically just the bottom part of the seat that flip up to make ds high enough so that the seatbelt lands appropriately. And it does - he meets the height and weight limit. (Although when he falls asleep in there he kind of slumps over and then the seatbelt is no longer perfectly across his chest.)<br><br>
However, up until now we have just used the booster seats for around town, and kept him in his Britax 5pt for freeway and longer trips. Ds2 is about to outgrow his Britax, so he needs to move into the seat that ds1 currently uses.<br><br>
My question is what is the safest option for ds1: To use the integrated booster seats, or to buy a different booster seat that has back and head protection as well?
 

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Basically, your five yo is not old enough or mature enough for a backless booster. Any child who still falls asleep in the car needs a full back booster (if not a five point carseat) to keep him sitting in the correct position for the seatbelt to function properly.<br><br>
The built in boosters are good in a pinch but certainly not something you should be using for every day driving. IMO, a child shouldn't be in a backless booster unless he does not fit in any full-back booster.<br><br>
If you give me some ideas of your budget I can make a recommendation. If he's in a five point right now, is there a chance you can buy him a Britax Regent and put the baby in his current seat?
 

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You don't say how tall/heavy your son is.<br><br>
I have a 2002 V70. Not sure how completely comparable they are, I've never seen a XC inside.<br><br>
My 7.5 yo, 51 pounds and and inch or so over 4 feet tall ds uses the built-in booster. His friends do as well (he is actually among the smallest of his friends, though they're all pretty much the same age). In our other car, he has a backless booster.<br><br>
He actually hated the built-in booster until he was over 45 pounds. He felt like it didn't fit. For long drives, though, when he thinks he might fall asleep (like 6 hour drives), he still wants the full booster so he can sleep. Yes, that's his request. Honestly, I think for him, the full booster might be too small. We have to lift up the adjustable top part to what seems like too high for me, given the height of the headrest in the car. I need to read up on it.<br><br>
Do you ever use your middle seat with the Britax in there? How?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
We currently have the Britax (Roundabout? I forget - the smaller one) in the middle for ds2, but he is outgrowing it, and he needs to be moved into the next one (Marathon? I'm blanking on the names right now), which ds1 currently uses when he's not in the booster seat.<br><br>
The reason I am particularly confused is there was a thread on here awhile back, and it was mentioned that if a car had side curtain airbags, that a backless booster is potentially safer because the airbags wouldn't deploy agains the side of the taller booster. And then there was some discussion about how since 80% of carseats are installed correctly, that a built in booster is actually safer because there is no chance of it being installed incorrectly.<br><br>
I don't remember right now exactly how tall or heavy my almost 6yo is, but I remember when we checked last year when we bought the car he was over both the height and weight requirements.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>ThreeBeans</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7915321"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Basically, your five yo is not old enough or mature enough for a backless booster. Any child who still falls asleep in the car needs a full back booster (if not a five point carseat) to keep him sitting in the correct position for the seatbelt to function properly.</div>
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a little off topic, but im 24, and i still regularly fall asleep in the car, lol... drives dh crazy sometimes :p
 

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But the regent has sides. Unless the OP disables the airbags and renders her post irrelevant, that's kind of the issue. I have no answers though! I would worry about side airbags with a seat or booster with sides, personally. I am just bumping this so maybe a carseat expert will see it. What else am I gonna do in the middle of night when I'm slugging back the vino, eh? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
OP- can you disable your back/side airbags? Is this a good thing? Maybe the folks at volvo know?
 

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Side <b>curtain</b> airbags are EXCELLANT and offer additional protection in side impact collisions. A child safety seat next to a side <b>curtain</b> airbag is quite safe.<br>
1st and 2nd generation side air bags (the kind that poof out like a pillow....like the ones in the front seats) and car seats do NOT mix. The tests that have been done show the chance the child is injured when a side air bag deploys (and they are seated in the rear outboard position) is significantly higher than without the air bag there. So if you purchase a vehicle with side air bags in the rear (and they are NOT the curtain style) and you have children seated in the outboard postions..request they be turned off at the dealership before you take ownership. (Most dealerships automatically turn all air bags ON when checking in new inventory from the manufacturer.)<br><b>Curtain types are FINE.</b> The testing here shows a significant increase in crash protection, for a child seated next to a side <b>CURTAIN</b> device. This method of side crash protection is preferrable if you have children in CRS's.<br><br>
DC
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>dallaschildren</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7967182"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Side <b>curtain</b> airbags are EXCELLANT and offer additional protection in side impact collisions. A child safety seat next to a side <b>curtain</b> airbag is quite safe.<br>
1st and 2nd generation side air bags (the kind that poof out like a pillow....like the ones in the front seats) and car seats do NOT mix. The tests that have been done show the chance the child is injured when a side air bag deploys (and they are seated in the rear outboard position) is significantly higher than without the air bag there. So if you purchase a vehicle with side air bags in the rear (and they are NOT the curtain style) and you have children seated in the outboard postions..request they be turned off at the dealership before you take ownership. (Most dealerships automatically turn all air bags ON when checking in new inventory from the manufacturer.)<br><b>Curtain types are FINE.</b> The testing here shows a significant increase in crash protection, for a child seated next to a side <b>CURTAIN</b> device. This method of side crash protection is preferrable if you have children in CRS's.<br><br>
DC</div>
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Question- are new cars still being made with the side airbags that are dangerous? My dad just got a new honda pilot that dd may be in a seat in at some point- should I worry?<br><br>
thanks!<br><br>
-Angela
 

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Ok, I'm really interested in this side airbag thing, as we are looking into purchasing a new to us minivan. What years and models had the dangerous side bags?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>alegna</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7967593"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Question- are new cars still being made with the side airbags that are dangerous? My dad just got a new honda pilot that dd may be in a seat in at some point- should I worry?<br><br>
-Angela</div>
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Yes. Vehicles currently being produced may still have the head/or thorax deployable airbags. Head/or thorax air bags came out on most models who offered the option, in the mid-nineties. <b>Some</b> vehicle manufacturers are phasing all "old" technology head/thorax SIP combos out, however it is specific to certain models. I say some because there are still vehicle manufacturers such as Nissan for example, who have a combo of all 3 types of side impact systems on their Armada and Quest models; Head SIP, thorax SIP, <b>and</b> a deployable curtain. There are 2 inherent problems with phasing out <b>all</b> 1st and 2nd generation head/or thorax side airbags: One, some vehicular designs (their frame structure) are not compatible with the curtain airbag system. Second, the vehicle must meet safety specs ( if memory serves me it is FMVSS 214....?) so vehicle manufacturers find themselves boxed into certain types of systems to meet government safety criteria.<br>
In general, occupants restrained by supplemental side curtain SIP are statistically less likely to experiencing injury induced from deployment of the head/or thorax bags. Also I must note that the head/or thorax bags are not going to be useful for keeping the occupant inside the vehicle. The side curtain bag does offer a chance to keep extremities inside the vehicle as well as provide some protection against rollover. Why? Because basically a head/or thorax airbag is designed to deploy upon sensor trip and then immediately deflate.<br><br>
I want to reiterate that any SIP is better than none at all generally speaking. To be truly educated I feel it is crucial that consumers know the differences between SIP systems. Whether you have head/or thorax and/or curtain SIP systems, you are statistically "safer" than without them. The precaution is to be certain that if you have a head/or thorax SIP system in the REAR seats, you SHOULD not place a child restraint next to them.<br><br>
Dallaschildren<br>
CPS Instructor
 

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Is there a place we can look to find which cars have the airbags that carseats shouldn't be next to?<br><br>
They're still going to have latch anchors there though probably, huh? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: Maybe ONLY in those slots?<br><br>
-Angela
 

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I will dig through my stuff. I don't know how up to date my list is....it's been awhile since I have updated what I have. Generally speaking, it is of the utmost importance that all consumers are educated on the type of vehicle protection systems in their car. This education needs to start with the car salesperson and confirmed by the consumer with the actual vehicle manual and via other research done before purchase. All vehicle manufacturers need to conform to the revised FMVSS 214 and phase in compliance on or after September 1, 2011. The existing standard does not address side crashes into fixed narrow objects, which account for approximately 20 percent of deaths and serious injuries that occur in side impacts. The current standard also does not address head injuries, which account for 43 percent of the total deaths and serious injuries. The revision would require that all new passenger vehicles, trucks, and buses sold in the United States provide substantial head protection in side crashes. Manufacturers will also have to meet an additional performance test involving a 20-mph vehicle side impact into a rigid pole at an approach angle of 75 degrees.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>alegna</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7968694"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">They're still going to have latch anchors there though probably, huh? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: Maybe ONLY in those slots?</div>
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I hear you. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: Yes. But again, it is up to the consumer to know what type of SIP system is installed in their vehicle. Vehicular protection isn't given the same "press" or time as CRS safety has gotten as of late. What a lot of people don't realize is that the protection one's vehicle offers (in part by way of frame, structure, design, and acitve/passive safety options) is their first line of defense against injury or death in a MVC. There <b>are</b> a ton of vehicle options out there for those who will be transporting children and cannot utilize a head/or thorax deployable SIP system. So if there is anything positive about such a situation, it is that parents and caregivers still have a wide variety of vehicle choices with which to abstain from said option. Oh, and again.....the majority of manufacturers will still have the REAR SIP systems as <b>options</b>......so most consumers (parents and caregivers with kiddos in CRS' still) won't necessarily HAVE to HAVE such a system to contend with to begin with......<br><br><br>
Dallaschildren<br>
CPS Instructor
 

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See that's the thing- I KNOW what's in my car. We don't have side airbags. But we rent cars when traveling. And we may start putting a carseat in my dad's car now and then... and darn it, I keep tons of things in my head but this is getting ridiculous.... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:<br><br>
-Angela
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>alegna</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7971868"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">See that's the thing- I KNOW what's in my car. We don't have side airbags. But we rent cars when traveling. And we may start putting a carseat in my dad's car now and then... and darn it, I keep tons of things in my head but this is getting ridiculous.... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:<br><br>
-Angela</div>
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I know. Crazy eh? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"><br>
Here are some warning acronyms you might find in a vehicle and what they mean:<br><br><b>SRS</b> - Supplemental Restraint System<br><b>SIR</b> - Supplemental Inflatable Restraint<br>
Air Bag<br><b>SIPS</b> - Side Impact Protection System<br><b>SIAB</b> - Side Impact Air Bag<br><b>IC</b> - Inflatable Curtain<br><br>
The vehicle manufacturers are required by law to designate (usually by acronym), rear supplemental restraint systems somewhere in the cab (either up above or to the side of the window) of the vehicle. So go into the back seat and look above the window and if the vehicle has one of the above systems, the acronym will be marked appropriately. If all else fails, check the glovebox for the manual.<br><br>
DC
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>dallaschildren</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7974632"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I know. Crazy eh? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"><br>
Here are some warning acronyms you might find in a vehicle and what they mean:<br><br><b>SRS</b> - Supplemental Restraint System<br><b>SIR</b> - Supplemental Inflatable Restraint<br>
Air Bag<br><b>SIPS</b> - Side Impact Protection System<br><b>SIAB</b> - Side Impact Air Bag<br><b>IC</b> - Inflatable Curtain<br><br>
The vehicle manufacturers are required by law to designate (usually by acronym), rear supplemental restraint systems somewhere in the cab (either up above or to the side of the window) of the vehicle. So go into the back seat and look above the window and if the vehicle has one of the above systems, the acronym will be marked appropriately. If all else fails, check the glovebox for the manual.<br><br>
DC</div>
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Super. Now remind me which ones I don't want to put a carseat next to please? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/loveeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Loveeyes">:<br><br>
-Angela
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>alegna</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7975512"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Super. Now remind me which ones I don't want to put a carseat next to please? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/loveeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Loveeyes">:<br><br>
-Angela</div>
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Do you want to strangle me now or later? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/loveeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Loveeyes">: My answer may peeve you off......<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
SRS - Supplemental Restraint System: This is a broad general term. Includes all airbags....both the curtain and inflatable; front and rear seats.<br>
SIR - Supplemental Inflatable Restraint<br>
Air Bag: No CRS should be seated next to this one.<br>
SIPS - Side Impact Protection System: Another general term but usually means an inflatable air bag; so you should be cautious placing a CRS next to this.<br>
SIAB - Side Impact Air Bag: Self explanatory; No CRS next to this.<br>
IC - Inflatable Curtain: This system allows a CRS to be placed next to it.<br><br>
DC <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>dallaschildren</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7975624"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Do you want to strangle me now or later? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/loveeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Loveeyes">: My answer may peeve you off......<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
SRS - Supplemental Restraint System: This is a broad general term. Includes all airbags....both the curtain and inflatable; front and rear seats.<br>
SIR - Supplemental Inflatable Restraint<br>
Air Bag: No CRS should be seated next to this one.<br>
SIPS - Side Impact Protection System: Another general term but usually means an inflatable air bag; so you should be cautious placing a CRS next to this.<br>
SIAB - Side Impact Air Bag: Self explanatory; No CRS next to this.<br>
IC - Inflatable Curtain: This system allows a CRS to be placed next to it.<br><br>
DC <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:</div>
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So- no carseat on the outside if:<br>
SIR or SIAB<br>
SIPS - who the heck knows...<br>
IC is okay....<br><br>
right?<br><br>
gonna have to make a cheat sheet....<br><br>
-Angela
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Okay, having read this I am going to double check, but I am pretty sure we have side curtains in our Volvo.<br><br>
So do you think there is a significant safety difference between the integrated booster seat (backless) and a full back booster seat?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>oceanbaby</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7975956"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Okay, having read this I am going to double check, but I am pretty sure we have side curtains in our Volvo.<br><br>
So do you think there is a significant safety difference between the integrated booster seat (backless) and a full back booster seat?</div>
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How much does your 5 yo weigh? Whether you have an integrated booster or a removable booster seat, your DC should look like the child who says "I like my booster!" <a href="http://www.carseat.org/" target="_blank">http://www.carseat.org/</a> <b>(click on "5 step test")</b><br>
Children must have a lap and shoulder belt combo when sitting in a vehicle seat with a booster. The Lap portion of the belt should stay low and the shoulder portion should stay away from the neck and run diagonally across the chest. The one big problem with integrated car seats, is that they notoriously fail to allow children of all body types, weights, and heights, from fitting into them correctly,not to mention most are extremely uncomfortable. Does the seat with the integrated booster in your vehicle, not have a high back and a headrest there? If not, definately stop using the integrated seat and purchase a stand alone high back booster booster to put into your car.<br><br>
On a side note, if memory serves me, Volvo was one of the first manufacturers to install integrated seats and one of the first to take side curtain airbag technology to fruition. Volvo also has one of the most if not the most technologically advanced crash testing facilities in the world. I would LOVE to tour that facility. They are the gold standard.......<br><br>
DC
 
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