[josephine_e]

it started at the beginning of last week when i was trying to get dd to lay down for a nap. naps are an issue for us, as is bedtime. i think it's because when she was younger, i a lot of times forced her to go to sleep when she didn't want to (but she needed to, kwim?). i know now that there are better ways to help her go to sleep than holding her down while she screams until she's too tired to scream any more (i'm so ashamed!

: ), but at the time i was a new/young mom and at my wits end at bed/naptime and i just didn't know what to do. so now there's this intense power struggle surrounding all sleep. i've tried the wind down time. i've tried the carb-loaded snacks. i've tried warm milk, soft music, lots of books, letting her lay there until she falls asleep (she doesn't, she just winds herself up!). this has been a struggle for several months, and now i believe she's chronically over tired (she usually isn't asleep until 11pm and she wakes up around 8 or 9am. sometimes she gets an hour or two nap during the day, but not always, and she shows a lot of signs of being overtired). so we were doing our usual nap time thing, reading books, trying to be calm, etc. only now it's harder bc ds was 2wks old and so her protests were waking him up, he was keeping her up, etc. she NEEDED a nap, i NEEDED her to take a nap, but it just wasn't going to happen. it ended up with both of us in tears. i finally actually left and cried in the other room. when i calmed down a little i came back in here and took her into the living room with me to sit in the chair together (i didn't want to leave her crying by herself). but there's just something about her SCREAMING and being completely impossible to talk to that drives me INSANE. it's my button. which sucks because i know it's a time that she really needs me to be calm and rational. so then she starts trying to climb up the chair in a rediculousely dangerous way. i ask her to get down, she doesnt. i try to pull her down physically and she holds on as tightly as she can. finally i pull her off with all my force and set her down on the ground (hard!) then i take her by the hand and "march" her into the bedroom and set her on the bed and go back in the other room. even as i'm doing it i'm thinking "OH MY GOD I'M THE WORDLS WORST MOMMY!" finally i called up her grandmother and asked her to come pick dd up for the afternoon.

this is one of the more extreme samples of our week, but off and on it's been pretty much like this. then monday we went out to breakfast. dd was cranky, which i found odd bc she actually fell asleep at 8pm the night before (THE BEDTIME ROUTINE IS STARTING TO WORK!). anyway, long story short she ended up falling out of her booster seat onto the floor (i was on the other side of the booth changing ds's diaper bc the restuarant had no changing stations) of course i felt awful for not being more careful. she kept crying and crying and crying. we finally had to leave the restuarant. the crying lasted all day. dd just kept screaming and clinging onto me. something was wrong! i asked dh to stay home from work (he has a pretty flexible job, so he can usually pick his hours at short notice). he said we needed money, she was just cranky, she would calm down, it was okay, etc. NO. something was WRONG! grrr. so he and i ended up in a fight over this while dd is still crying, she won't take a nap (of course), ds is crying .... dh goes to work and this lasts all day until 4:30pm. after trying to figure out if her teeth hurt (don't babies get molars around 2yrs?) or if she was sick or tired or hungry, etc., i finally figure out that her arm hurts! OF COURSE! the fall. i didn't think anything of the fall bc she had already been really cranky and i thought it had just set her off again. i called my mother in law and she took us to the emergency room. after 3hours we found out that dd had broken her collar bone. now i REALLY feel like an awful mommy bc i had been picking her up all day (which hurt) and getting really frustrated at her screaming.

so now today, she won't eat, she won't nap, her arm hurts, she's super tired, ds is crying, i'm exhausted (emotionally drained + sleep deprived). i finally called dMi sobbing and asked her to come get dd. dd said she wanted to go, but when "ra ra" got here, she changed her mind and wanted to stay w/mommy. i wanted her to stay so badly, but i was having a meltdown and i was afraid of her seeing me like that. so i made her go. she cried and cried. i came inside and cried. i'm crying now.

i feel like i'm not cut out to be a mother. everyone tells me i'm a great mom, but i know that i just don't live up to my ideals. i feel like there's something i'm missing.

does anyone have kids about 20mo's apart? how'd you do it?!?! i feel like if we could just get the sleeping/eating thing under control we'd be fine, but when i'm at the end of my rope and exhausted, it's hard to come up with a good plan and follow through with it. please please please someone tell me the magic formula to a happy gd/nfl house, or at least tell me that she won't grow up feeling like i didn't fufill her needs because of this! i think i have guilt issues with because my mother showed me a lot of anger/frustration/resentment when i was young and i never ever ever want dd to feel that way!

 

[WuWei]

Josephine, You are in the middle of a hurricane and you just need to hold on while everything is whirrling around you.

I strongly recommend some Rescue Remedy (and Elm and Cherry Plum and Beech). Have dh buy these on the way home tonight. Absolutely this is the most useful thing you can do in my opinion. These will return you to a place of feeling competent and calm. They cost about $10 each. And I swear my days would look like what you described if I didn't have them when I was sleep deprived and exhausted and my hot button of physicality and fear of danger and overload of screaming were all occuring simultaneously.

Counselling about becoming overwhelmed when my child was screaming or grabbing me has helped me too. I suggest that you read at this thread called "Parenting and Rage". http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=394579 There are hundreds of mamas who had similar painful upbringings and similar ideals and struggles with reality when their children are needing them and they are overwhelmed. It is painful to feel like you can't help your child or yourself. You are doing the best that you can. It will get better. I'll try to make concrete suggestions within your post below. We had "sleep issues" when *I* made it an issue. I found ways to meet my needs for rest so that ds's lesser need for sleep didn't exhaust me to insanity. When I quit making it an issue, ds was able to relax and THEN he *could* sleep. As long as I was amped up about 'HE NEEDS TO SLEEP!! and 'I NEED A BREAK!' ds wasn't able to settle and become calm enough to sleep.

I'll send this and post more as soon as I can.

Pat

 

[Magella]

Oh, Josephine

It can be so hard and so overwhelming to have both a newborn and a toddler. I have 3 kids, the two closest in age are 23 months apart-and those 3 months make a big difference, so I imagine that it's even harder to have them only 20 months apart. You're still recovering, you're sleep deprived, you're getting used to mothering two, and you're alone all day. That's hard. You aren't a bad mom at all. You're a human mom.

My oldest has always had difficulty with sleep. She has a hard time settling down, shifting gears from awake to sleepy. She also has some difficulty regulating-one night of not enough sleep throws her off and it can snowball into weeks of not sleeping well and not sleeping enough. (And not getting enough good sleep negatively affects her behavior.) The worst thing we can do is make sleep into any sort of power struggle. She needs us to help her relax, and only certain things help her relax. So I can relate to your sleep issues as well. Does your dd get plenty of exercise? I find my dd needs to get outside first thing in the morning-it helps sort of set her internal clock. And she needs plenty of physical activity throughout the day. Go for a drive if it you are able and it helps your toddler sleep (I have sat in the driveway in my car with sleeping kids on numerous occasions).

WRT naps, would it be possible for you to take both the baby and the toddler into your room, keep the door closed so that she can't slip out (after making sure the room is safe, of course), and lay down with both of them? I used to do this when things were crazy and I was desperate for sleep, and it was good because it invited my oldest to sleep without making it a struggle (and she likes to cuddle, so she was likely to enjoy this) and it allowed me to doze off and on knowing the older kids were safe. (Newborn baby on one side in my arm, any siblings on the other to keep them separated for safety.) This typically didn't turn out to be a loud time. The key was to not be in the mindset of "s/he has to sleep", but more of a "let's try to relax, at least I can lay down for a few minutes" kind of mindset.

Also, keep in mind that your daughter is adjusting to having a new sibling and that is hard. This alone can affect her behavior and sleep. It might help to let a lot of things go right now, and focus on what you enjoy about her-fill up her up on love, support her, talk about what's difficult for her right now.

I would think that survival is the priority right now, and so the sleep issue may have to take a bit of a backseat (though I understand how much not getting enough sleep can affect a child's behavior and thus affect the whole family-I get that, it just takes time to work on sleep and if you're struggling about it so much maybe letting it ride a little will help the overall stress level). Is there anyone who can help you out a bit? This is such a hard time, and I don't think mothers were meant to do this alone. Do not neglect to take care of yourself-eat well, get as much sleep as you can (I know, that's the hardest one), get outside for some sunlight, talk to friends, ask for help. It is so important to take care of yourself.

And it will get better. It will.

 

[josephine_e]

oh! thank you both so much! i "knew" a lot of the things you've told me, but i just had to hear it from other mamas, kwim? (dh told me this morning "this age is just really hard for everyone. it's not just you." i said "DON'T SAY THAT LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!"

poor dh. we're all lucky that he's such and incredibly patient man).

Quote:

When I quit making it an issue, ds was able to relax and THEN he *could* sleep. As long as I was amped up about 'HE NEEDS TO SLEEP!! and 'I NEED A BREAK!' ds wasn't able to settle and become calm enough to sleep.

this is so true. i get in this cicle where, even when i do try to let the issue drop, i get so worried that she isn't getting enough (my brain thinks: oh no! she isn't getting enough sleep. that's going to ruin everything! it will stunt her growth, keep her from learning, make her cranky, etc.) so that i think that even when i'm "letting the issue go" ... i'm not really, kwim? i'm going to try not to even think about her sleep tonight. we'll pile up some pillows in the living room, turn on some soft music, get out some books and just think about having a good, calm time.

Quote:

I find my dd needs to get outside first thing in the morning-it helps sort of set her internal clock.

i'm going to try this!

Quote:

I would think that survival is the priority right now... Is there anyone who can help you out a bit? ... I don't think mothers were meant to do this alone. Do not neglect to take care of yourself-...

you have no idea how much this encouragement helps me! i've always wanted to be super-me. i used to be super-daughter, then i got married and wanted to be super-wife, now i'm super-mommy. of course, after just a little while of this i turn into super-melt-down-queen.

i was thinking to myself all morning that i wish i lived in a tribe where all the other women would watch dd while i nursed, and dd could play with the other children etc. ::sigh:: thank you for reaffirming those thoughts and telling me that it's OKAY for me to call in the grandmas!

i just woke up from a nap w/ ds (dd is still w/ dMi) and i feel so refreshed. dh is on his way home and we're going to try to have a really nice *calm* evening (btw, scubamama: i don't know what rescue remedy is, nor where to get it. more info?). i feel like i'm ready to start over from a better place. thank you both again!

 

[Artmama]

In case she doesn't answer, just go to a helath food store or a Whole Foods or something like that (if you have it) and ask for Rescue Remedy. It is an herbal concoction for calm. I am sure you can get it on line.

And do NOT feel ashamed about what you used to do. When you knew better, You did better. (or tried, right) You are not alone! Hugs to you!

 

[mummy marja]

I don't have any specific advice, just wanted say i've been there too. I'm the same--everyone thinks I'm such a wonderful mom, and I am,

but I have had days like you described and worse! You are an awesome mom.

Hang in there, I know how hard it is. You can do it, you will all get through it and it will be great.

Rescue Remedy was helpful for me too!

 

[kisagotami]

It's just really nice to know that I'm not the only mom out there who is having issues like yours...thank you for sharing, I feel a lot more human now that I know I'm not alone. I love my ds but by god some times I just can't take it anymore.

 

[josephine_e]

:

since i read these posts and the posts on the "parenting and rage" thread, i feel like a totally different person! i feel like this is something i can handle, and like all in all, the individual "issues" are not a big deal. what is a big deal is that i enjoy my children and my life.

we drove dd down last night and she was asleep around 10pm. i didn't even think about feeling guilty etc. i said, "hey, we'll try to start earlier tomorrow night. it's okay" -- this is such a big thing for me to be able to say!

i did get some rescue remedy from the local health food store today, so we'll see how that helps (i just put a few drops under my tongue, even though dd isn't even here and i'm feeling fine ... can't hurt, i guess.) dd is at her other grandmother's (she has 3 and none of them work or have much else to do except play with her, so i figure a couple hours every day or two won't be bad for anyone. especially if it prevents a meltdown!) she takes good naps over there so that means when she gets home this afternoon, i can already have the house clean and she'll be rested! and then we can play! and have fun! and not hate each other!! ... yay!

thank you all so much again. i think it's important for us to keep reminding each other that it's OKAY not to be super-mommy. we already are super, just because we're mommies!

 

[mummy marja]

Just wanted to add--remember your ds is still a newborn! This is a very difficult transition time, even without a toddler around! She may also be reacting to the new baby--even if she really loves him and doesn't do anything directly to HIM, things may be a little more difficult with her because she is going through a huge transition as well.

Don't feel guilty about sending her off to Grandma's for a while every day. That's wonderful! I think that's a great thing for everyone involved. My mom lives 2 minutes away and when I had a newborn and a toddler, i sent dd over whenever I could. We still do it. She loves it and so does my mom.

 

[Magella]

Josephine, I'm so happy for you.

I'm glad you have help, I'm glad you're feeling better, I'm glad you're more relaxed. And I agree that it's good for us to remind each other that we don't have to be super-mommy, that it's okay to just be human.

 

[lovesprout]

This is the best thread ever. I just want to cry! I don't feel abnormal anymore!

Thank you.

 

[sweetpea333]

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephine_e it started at the beginning of last week when i was trying to get dd to lay down for a nap. naps are an issue for us, as is bedtime. i think it's because when she was younger, i a lot of times forced her to go to sleep when she didn't want to (but she needed to, kwim?). i know now that there are better ways to help her go to sleep than holding her down while she screams until she's too tired to scream any more (i'm so ashamed! : ), but at the time i was a new/young mom and at my wits end at bed/naptime and i just didn't know what to do. so now there's this intense power struggle surrounding all sleep. i've tried the wind down time. i've tried the carb-loaded snacks. i've tried warm milk, soft music, lots of books, letting her lay there until she falls asleep (she doesn't, she just winds herself up!). this has been a struggle for several months, and now i believe she's chronically over tired (she usually isn't asleep until 11pm and she wakes up around 8 or 9am. sometimes she gets an hour or two nap during the day, but not always, and she shows a lot of signs of being overtired). so we were doing our usual nap time thing, reading books, trying to be calm, etc. only now it's harder bc ds was 2wks old and so her protests were waking him up, he was keeping her up, etc. she NEEDED a nap, i NEEDED her to take a nap, but it just wasn't going to happen. it ended up with both of us in tears. i finally actually left and cried in the other room. when i calmed down a little i came back in here and took her into the living room with me to sit in the chair together (i didn't want to leave her crying by herself). but there's just something about her SCREAMING and being completely impossible to talk to that drives me INSANE. it's my button. which sucks because i know it's a time that she really needs me to be calm and rational. so then she starts trying to climb up the chair in a rediculousely dangerous way. i ask her to get down, she doesnt. i try to pull her down physically and she holds on as tightly as she can. finally i pull her off with all my force and set her down on the ground (hard!) then i take her by the hand and "march" her into the bedroom and set her on the bed and go back in the other room. even as i'm doing it i'm thinking "OH MY GOD I'M THE WORDLS WORST MOMMY!" finally i called up her grandmother and asked her to come pick dd up for the afternoon. this is one of the more extreme samples of our week, but off and on it's been pretty much like this. then monday we went out to breakfast. dd was cranky, which i found odd bc she actually fell asleep at 8pm the night before (THE BEDTIME ROUTINE IS STARTING TO WORK!). anyway, long story short she ended up falling out of her booster seat onto the floor (i was on the other side of the booth changing ds's diaper bc the restuarant had no changing stations) of course i felt awful for not being more careful. she kept crying and crying and crying. we finally had to leave the restuarant. the crying lasted all day. dd just kept screaming and clinging onto me. something was wrong! i asked dh to stay home from work (he has a pretty flexible job, so he can usually pick his hours at short notice). he said we needed money, she was just cranky, she would calm down, it was okay, etc. NO. something was WRONG! grrr. so he and i ended up in a fight over this while dd is still crying, she won't take a nap (of course), ds is crying .... dh goes to work and this lasts all day until 4:30pm. after trying to figure out if her teeth hurt (don't babies get molars around 2yrs?) or if she was sick or tired or hungry, etc., i finally figure out that her arm hurts! OF COURSE! the fall. i didn't think anything of the fall bc she had already been really cranky and i thought it had just set her off again. i called my mother in law and she took us to the emergency room. after 3hours we found out that dd had broken her collar bone. now i REALLY feel like an awful mommy bc i had been picking her up all day (which hurt) and getting really frustrated at her screaming. so now today, she won't eat, she won't nap, her arm hurts, she's super tired, ds is crying, i'm exhausted (emotionally drained + sleep deprived). i finally called dMi sobbing and asked her to come get dd. dd said she wanted to go, but when "ra ra" got here, she changed her mind and wanted to stay w/mommy. i wanted her to stay so badly, but i was having a meltdown and i was afraid of her seeing me like that. so i made her go. she cried and cried. i came inside and cried. i'm crying now. i feel like i'm not cut out to be a mother. everyone tells me i'm a great mom, but i know that i just don't live up to my ideals. i feel like there's something i'm missing. does anyone have kids about 20mo's apart? how'd you do it?!?! i feel like if we could just get the sleeping/eating thing under control we'd be fine, but when i'm at the end of my rope and exhausted, it's hard to come up with a good plan and follow through with it. please please please someone tell me the magic formula to a happy gd/nfl house, or at least tell me that she won't grow up feeling like i didn't fufill her needs because of this! i think i have guilt issues with because my mother showed me a lot of anger/frustration/resentment when i was young and i never ever ever want dd to feel that way!

my babies are 14 months apart and it is so difficult, and i sometimes lose my temper in the worst way i have been physical 1 or 2 and wanted to call cps on myself, it takes time and practice and talk it out with your loved ones, tell yourself every morning that you are going to do your best to keep your temper and keep it in your mind, it takes alot of work but you'll learn to cope with two little ones, i dont have much advice sorry

keep your windows open and pretend the neighbours are listening to you talk, , i feel to embarassed to lose my temper and am on my best behaviour ever since...it sounds crazy but it helps!!

 

[momma2finn]

 

[IAMINSANE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephine_e it started at the beginning of last week when i was trying to get dd to lay down for a nap. naps are an issue for us, as is bedtime. i think it's because when she was younger, i a lot of times forced her to go to sleep when she didn't want to (but she needed to, kwim?). i know now that there are better ways to help her go to sleep than holding her down while she screams until she's too tired to scream any more (i'm so ashamed! : ), but at the time i was a new/young mom and at my wits end at bed/naptime and i just didn't know what to do. so now there's this intense power struggle surrounding all sleep. i've tried the wind down time. i've tried the carb-loaded snacks. i've tried warm milk, soft music, lots of books, letting her lay there until she falls asleep (she doesn't, she just winds herself up!). this has been a struggle for several months, and now i believe she's chronically over tired (she usually isn't asleep until 11pm and she wakes up around 8 or 9am. sometimes she gets an hour or two nap during the day, but not always, and she shows a lot of signs of being overtired). so we were doing our usual nap time thing, reading books, trying to be calm, etc. only now it's harder bc ds was 2wks old and so her protests were waking him up, he was keeping her up, etc. she NEEDED a nap, i NEEDED her to take a nap, but it just wasn't going to happen. it ended up with both of us in tears. i finally actually left and cried in the other room. when i calmed down a little i came back in here and took her into the living room with me to sit in the chair together (i didn't want to leave her crying by herself). but there's just something about her SCREAMING and being completely impossible to talk to that drives me INSANE. it's my button. which sucks because i know it's a time that she really needs me to be calm and rational. so then she starts trying to climb up the chair in a rediculousely dangerous way. i ask her to get down, she doesnt. i try to pull her down physically and she holds on as tightly as she can. finally i pull her off with all my force and set her down on the ground (hard!) then i take her by the hand and "march" her into the bedroom and set her on the bed and go back in the other room. even as i'm doing it i'm thinking "OH MY GOD I'M THE WORDLS WORST MOMMY!" finally i called up her grandmother and asked her to come pick dd up for the afternoon. this is one of the more extreme samples of our week, but off and on it's been pretty much like this. then monday we went out to breakfast. dd was cranky, which i found odd bc she actually fell asleep at 8pm the night before (THE BEDTIME ROUTINE IS STARTING TO WORK!). anyway, long story short she ended up falling out of her booster seat onto the floor (i was on the other side of the booth changing ds's diaper bc the restuarant had no changing stations) of course i felt awful for not being more careful. she kept crying and crying and crying. we finally had to leave the restuarant. the crying lasted all day. dd just kept screaming and clinging onto me. something was wrong! i asked dh to stay home from work (he has a pretty flexible job, so he can usually pick his hours at short notice). he said we needed money, she was just cranky, she would calm down, it was okay, etc. NO. something was WRONG! grrr. so he and i ended up in a fight over this while dd is still crying, she won't take a nap (of course), ds is crying .... dh goes to work and this lasts all day until 4:30pm. after trying to figure out if her teeth hurt (don't babies get molars around 2yrs?) or if she was sick or tired or hungry, etc., i finally figure out that her arm hurts! OF COURSE! the fall. i didn't think anything of the fall bc she had already been really cranky and i thought it had just set her off again. i called my mother in law and she took us to the emergency room. after 3hours we found out that dd had broken her collar bone. now i REALLY feel like an awful mommy bc i had been picking her up all day (which hurt) and getting really frustrated at her screaming. so now today, she won't eat, she won't nap, her arm hurts, she's super tired, ds is crying, i'm exhausted (emotionally drained + sleep deprived). i finally called dMi sobbing and asked her to come get dd. dd said she wanted to go, but when "ra ra" got here, she changed her mind and wanted to stay w/mommy. i wanted her to stay so badly, but i was having a meltdown and i was afraid of her seeing me like that. so i made her go. she cried and cried. i came inside and cried. i'm crying now. i feel like i'm not cut out to be a mother. everyone tells me i'm a great mom, but i know that i just don't live up to my ideals. i feel like there's something i'm missing. does anyone have kids about 20mo's apart? how'd you do it?!?! i feel like if we could just get the sleeping/eating thing under control we'd be fine, but when i'm at the end of my rope and exhausted, it's hard to come up with a good plan and follow through with it. please please please someone tell me the magic formula to a happy gd/nfl house, or at least tell me that she won't grow up feeling like i didn't fufill her needs because of this! i think i have guilt issues with because my mother showed me a lot of anger/frustration/resentment when i was young and i never ever ever want dd to feel that way!

OK I am still going thru the same thing you are but my son is 4 1/2 and daughter is 9 months. Things have clamed down slightly but not much. I FEEL YOUR PAIN but I haven't figured it out myself, so no words of advice. Just wanted you to know, you are not alone!