[emnjjsmom]

My 4 year old daughter is very intelligent for her age. She's at a 6-8 y/o level in all areas of education.

The problem is, she has a VERY difficult time in preschool. I was told this is normal with "gifted" children, but I have no idea how to handle it.

She spends her time at school crying about every.little.thing. She is a bit of a bully, manipulative and when things don't go exactly her way she cries terribly.

She is NOT like this at home. She's been with the same teacher for 2 years now. When she started preschool she had these issues but by October of her first year they had been mostly resolved, when she started this year she regressed terribly and hasn't managed to recover. Her teacher and I have discussed this in length but nothing we do seems to be helping.

I'm very worried because next year she starts full day kindergarten because I will be working. I'm worried she wont have a teacher willing to try to handle her emotions and they will just pop her into a different class. I'm worried they will have her evaluated and tell me to drug her with something. I'm worried this is going to continue getting worse throughout her years in school and she will become depressed like so many gifted individuals do.

Where do I start in handling this?? Money IS an issue for me.

 

[Miss Information]

Well, the only thing I can suggest is to give K a trial run. This is what I'm going to do with dd2. I'm going to give her a chance to see what it's like, and see if she has issues. I'm still very nervous about it, but I have some assessments done on her to help convince the teacher that more formal assessments need to be done on her.

For your dd I would do the same. Give it a chance. If the behavior persists, then it's time to do something about it. It's really hard to say ahead of time if she will be complacent in K (where things are different enough from preschool that she might be okay) or not complacent in K. I would consult with the teacher if things persist into that year and see what she says about it. I would also ask what they do to meet the needs of advanced students. Maybe they have something in place to differentiate. If it's not enough differentiation, then a grade skip might be in order. But you won't really know until she gets there.

My dd1 is very advanced too, but not wanting a grade skip because she's content to stay with her peers and do extra things at home with me - though it's starting to wear on me a little as you can see by my other post.

In the meantime, read up on asynchronous (uneven) development in the gifted child. It's not uncommon to be advanced cognitively, but be behind in the social/emotional department. Gifted individuals are also highly sensitive and have overeexcitabilities, so you might want to look into The Highly Sensitive Child book (get it from the Library) and read about overexcitabilities here:

http://www.sengifted.org/articles_so...heGifted.shtml

About asynchronous development

Oh, and as a personal note - make sure she's well fed with protein-rich foods. My highly sensitive dd2 tends to crash and burn when she doesn't get enough protein. It's not uncommon for highly gifted kids to burn through
their glucose and protein slows the digestion of carbohydrates. Carbs will not be enough. I know dd2's behavior is worse when she doesn't get enough protein.

 

[SunshineJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Information Oh, and as a personal note - make sure she's well fed with protein-rich foods. My highly sensitive dd2 tends to crash and burn when she doesn't get enough protein. It's not uncommon for highly gifted kids to burn through their glucose and protein slows the digestion of carbohydrates. Carbs will not be enough. I know dd2's behavior is worse when she doesn't get enough protein.

Y'know, 3 yrs ago I'd have thought this was really odd advice but I've learned the hard way that it is SO, so true!! When the kids have a good source of protein for breakfast (that they actually consume!) their moods are so much more stable.

 

[emnjjsmom]

This last week I've taken many measures to up her protien intake. It isnt easy because she doesnt eat meat/nuts/eggs/beans etc I have been finding ways to "hide" things in her foods though. It is hard because she would prefer to eat raw fruits and veggies and nothing else. But I've been finding some ways. My blood sugar crashes easily so it wouldnt surprise me if she had the same issue there. I also started her on some new multivits and fish oil at the same time.

None of that has seemed to help so far though

 

[emnjjsmom]

And thank you for the book rec'...I will have to update my library card and go check it out.

 

[deminc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by emnjjsmom My 4 year old daughter is very intelligent for her age. She's at a 6-8 y/o level in all areas of education. The problem is, she has a VERY difficult time in preschool. I was told this is normal with "gifted" children, but I have no idea how to handle it. She spends her time at school crying about every.little.thing. She is a bit of a bully, manipulative and when things don't go exactly her way she cries terribly. She is NOT like this at home. She's been with the same teacher for 2 years now. When she started preschool she had these issues but by October of her first year they had been mostly resolved, when she started this year she regressed terribly and hasn't managed to recover. Her teacher and I have discussed this in length but nothing we do seems to be helping. I'm very worried because next year she starts full day kindergarten because I will be working. I'm worried she wont have a teacher willing to try to handle her emotions and they will just pop her into a different class. I'm worried they will have her evaluated and tell me to drug her with something. I'm worried this is going to continue getting worse throughout her years in school and she will become depressed like so many gifted individuals do. Where do I start in handling this?? Money IS an issue for me.

Since homeschooling is not an option, the next best thing I can think of that can make a difference fairly quickly is finding an activity in which your child can excel and go at her own pace - music, martial arts, drama etc. If she's very verbal in public and have a great memory, she could shine in a drama class and land plum roles for her age group.

 

[SmoothieMom]

What dose she say about her behavior at school, do you discuss it with her? Does she understand the bully aspect and that the teacher has to keep contacting you?

 

[Miss Information]

Quote:

Originally Posted by emnjjsmom I'm worried she wont have a teacher willing to try to handle her emotions and they will just pop her into a different class. I'm worried they will have her evaluated and tell me to drug her with something. I'm worried this is going to continue getting worse throughout her years in school and she will become depressed like so many gifted individuals do.

They CAN NOT make you drug your child. You have rights. It perhaps wouldn't hurt to let them evaluate her just to see if they test her for developmental stuff - because it would show that she has strengths and any weaknesses. But you have RIGHTS to refuse what they say after assessments and demand independent educational evaluations. For the future keep this website in your arsenal

http://www.wrightslaw.com/

and also read about this:

http://www.sengifted.org/articles_co...Children.shtml

and Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children and Adults

 

[joensally]

Hugs. BTDT.

Can you get EI to evaluate to see if there's anything unidentified going on?

Some thoughts:
Her preschool and teacher might be very nice, but not the right fit for your DD.

Have you asked her?

Have you done some reflection with her? (ie when you want x, what do you typically do? how does that impact others? what could you do differently to get what you need while not bothering others?)

Have you checked out the kindie? It might be a better fit.

"Bullying" and "manipulation" may be an anxiety-driven method of getting her needs met. Providing her with alternative strategies while also not providing any pay-off for the behaviours may change it. DS had some behaviours in preschool which were not "prosocial" and we had to be pretty direct with him - not mean or unsupportive, but very direct.

 

[emnjjsmom]

Thank you so much for all the advice and the book rec's, I really needed a place to start with her.

Quote:

They CAN NOT make you drug your child. You have rights. It perhaps wouldn't hurt to let them evaluate her just to see if they test her for developmental stuff - because it would show that she has strengths and any weaknesses.

I wouldnt ever drug her, it's not even something I would consider, I just worried about them expecting me to do that.

Quote:

What dose she say about her behavior at school, do you discuss it with her? Does she understand the bully aspect and that the teacher has to keep contacting you?

I think the bullying part is mostly a challenge thing to her. She creates her own challenges, her own hurdles, partly because she's bored. We've talked about it, but she really stays fairly tight lipped about what goes on at school.

When I ask her why she gets so upset at school she normally says something along the lines of i'm tired/im bored/im sick/im scared/my legs hurt/I have a headache etc. When I ask her why she feels that way she shuts down. We are working hard trying to find ways to express our emotions without crying and it was working for a while but now it has all slipped away again for some reason.

One week at school she was worse but it seemed to be because her closest friend was on vacation. Today she had a bad bad day again and her friend was gone. I havent paid enough attention to her friend's attendance though to know if that's REALLY part of the issue or if it is just a coincidence that I noticed it on these days.

Quote:

Since homeschooling is not an option, the next best thing I can think of that can make a difference fairly quickly is finding an activity in which your child can excel and go at her own pace - music, martial arts, drama etc. If she's very verbal in public and have a great memory, she could shine in a drama class and land plum roles for her age group.

I have really tried to find something that she will like to do on the side, but money is a major issue and she doesnt participate in things. But something at her own pace would be a much better idea when it comes to participation I think. I wanted her to take some art courses over the summer but they start at 6 years old, and even though she's on that level they wont accept her because they dont want children that arent at a certain maturity. She is mostly there but her emotional outbursts make her difficult for other people to take care of. I'll have to keep looking.

 

[Rose-Roget]

Quote:

Originally Posted by emnjjsmom This last week I've taken many measures to up her protien intake. It isnt easy because she doesnt eat meat/nuts/eggs/beans etc I have been finding ways to "hide" things in her foods though. It is hard because she would prefer to eat raw fruits and veggies and nothing else.

Don't know if she would like it, but I make fresh/frozen berry smoothies with whey protein powder in the AM, and I share it with DS (4). DS won't eat eggs in the morning and he might lick a little peanut butter off toast or waffles, but it's hard for him to get a good source of protein in the morning. I've noticed that he does a lot better if he starts off his day with more than carbs.

Also, like pp said, the school can't diagnose anything medical or even recommend medication - the could recommend that you talk to your ped about any difficulties she may be having in school. Really, though, most schools would try to work with you and your dd to find out the reasons for any difficulties she might have. Try to keep in mind that most teachers and staff at schools are there because they love children and want to work with them. They've probably seen other children with a lot worse behaviors. If things were to get really bad, they could recommend a behavior evaluation, but that could be really helpful because then they would look closely at antecedents, reasons for behaviors, and real ways to solve them. And you are included as part of the team in any evaluation process, so your input about things they could look for would be welcomed.

It's really unsettling to see your lo struggle in any way. My ds sounds similar to your dd, and I have similar worries about the future. Just know your rights and keep the doors of communication open with the school.

 

[Bird Girl]

We have a friend who behaves in much the same way you describe. Of course, I've tried to talk to her mom about gifted children and their overexcitiabilites, but her mom does not see her as gifted, because she is not academically advanced, but instead is artistically gifted. What I will say is that this little girl (I'll call her LG) has done just fine in K and 1st grade at our local public school. LG was quite the...director... in preschool (she had a job and a plan for each and every student) and was quite put out when they did not live up to her expectations. She can still be this way, some of the time. But when she went on to K and 1st grade, she was more inhibited, even a little space-y. Her teachers like her and she has friends in class. As I said, her area of giftedness is not addressed in regular school, so she's doing fine academically, but not exceptionally well. In any case, the transition from preschool to kindergarten was sufficiently jarring to her to "break" her of the habit of ordering others about, although she still slips into that behavior privately. I do think it stems from the typical gifted child dilemma of having a pre-thought-out and pre-arranged pattern of the day in mind when she wakes up in the morning, and having to deal with the disappointment that occurs when the day does not follow according to her "perfect" plan. Eventually, I think, she will grow more flexible in her thinking and take her disappointments with more grace, but that is a function of age.

Give kindergarten a good solid try before you worry about what comes next. With our kids, you can never tell just how they'll react to something six months or even three months away.

 

[sharon.gmc]

I think you need to transfer you child to a special school for gifted children.

 

[jilly]

What about something cheap like going to the library? Last year my ds1 went to storytime at the library, and librarians LOVE him, because he pulls a chair up the library counter and chatters away to them about whatever he's interested in that moment. Now he doesn't go to storytime, but I found that it is a big confidence boost to just go to the library and pick out books about whatever he's interested in that moment, and then go and have a chat with the librarians. We live in a pretty small town, so they've even started bringing in "cooler" books on topics that he's interested in (like the EyeWitness books) from the bigger library an hour away for him. We hadn't gone for a while, and I realized that it is a real confidence booster for him just to be with adults that have time to enjoy him, and don't just think of him as a "problem" they have to solve and work around at school.

 

[ejsmommy]

What we did when we were in your situation was to take our dd to a psychologist who specializes in gifted children. Money is an issue for us too but I really wanted help and support. It was an incredibly stressful time for me, as her school was demanding psych evaluations etc. While I was worried something was wrong with dd the psychologist helped me to see that nothing was wrong with dd except that her school was not the right fit. She helped us find a new school where our dd has thrived.

I belong to her support group for mothers of gifted kids and I can't tell you how common this situation is, I'm sorry if that doesn't help you but I wanted you to know that you are not alone. She usually either talks to teachers and offers suggestions (which sometimes works) or she recommends changing schools or grade skipping. It's a tough situation. I could give you her number if you want, for a phone consultation.

 

[emnjjsmom]

Thank you all so so much for your advice. It really helps me a lot because I didnt even have a starting point for her! Things just kept getting worse and everyone kept putting their 2cents in on her "behaviour problems" and what they thought I should do. I was starting to get as frustrated as JJ!!

I'm going to contact our district office and have a meeting with them (I have to anyways so I might as well bring this up to!) and I plan to meet some of the kindergarten teachers and get a good feel for them and make sure they get a good feel for JJ and figure out how we're all goign to work together on this.

Your book suggestions are fab! I checked out 2 books today and have 2 more ordered from a different library.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you!!! After her terrible day at school yesterday I was starting to get into a panic!

 

[AAK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by emnjjsmom This last week I've taken many measures to up her protien intake. It isnt easy because she doesnt eat meat/nuts/eggs/beans etc I have been finding ways to "hide" things in her foods though. It is hard because she would prefer to eat raw fruits and veggies and nothing else. But I've been finding some ways. My blood sugar crashes easily so it wouldnt surprise me if she had the same issue there. I also started her on some new multivits and fish oil at the same time. None of that has seemed to help so far though

For our oldest (whose blood tests confirmed very low protein) we added protein powder to things. She knows about it (she is older though). It has helped.

Amy

 

[Miss Information]

One thing I also thought about is when a child doesn't feel in control of herself (and an underchallenged child with sensitivities can feel incredibly out of control), she tries to gain control of others. Part of it is the internal complexity of the asynchronous child. It's scary to be so advanced cognitively, but highly sensitive to things. Emotions are not rational, and a child can simply not apply the same cognitive rules to emotional states as they can to say, building a block tower (building a block tower is pretty straightforward, dealing with others and their own agendas is more highly complex).

Due to dd2's high level of anxiety, she sought to control me as much as she could. She couldn't control her own emotions, so she began to be bossy and demanding of me. It was a defense mechanism - to feel in control of something externally because internally, she was not.

She didn't bully others in school, because her social anxieties were so bad, she became selectively mute. That was her way to "control" situations she was overwhelmed in. But at home, she bossed her sisters around (or tried to anyway).

Understanding is half the battle. Those who suggested gifted counseling wouldn't be a bad idea. I'm going to look into it as well, and I should have done that all along, but I'm stubborn and tend to try and work things out on my own.

 

[joy_seeker]

Kindergarten is NOT mandatory, although most think it is. You don't have to send your child to kindergarten and can keep her in daycare for another year if you feel it is necessary and still send her to first grade the following year. States may differ on this so check with the Dept. of Ed. for your state to be sure.

I would also like to add that although homeschooling is not an option it doesn't mean you can't adopt an attitude of homeschooling. That is to say that real learning doesn't only take place within those walls and that many things about school are artificial and you don't have to priortize them in your family.

When we decided to homeschool I was teaching and had contractual obligations to finish the school year so my son had to finish it as well. However, our attitude toward school changed. I no longer cared about the trivial things that had stressed us out before, such as his simply not completing assignments because of distraction and disorganization (ds is twice exceptional as gifted and ADHD). I spoke with his classroom teacher (they switched for math and science) and told her that we were going to be focusing on his learning, not his grades or performance on tests. We continued to enrich him at home, had specific time limits for how much family time we were willing to sacrifice for homework, and stopped making a big deal about the artifices of school, ie: grades. His classroom teacher was understanding, his math and science teacher thought I was nuts and was creating a 9 yo monster but their perceptions are not my concern, my child's well being is my concern.

I have to admit that it was difficult to be okay with my very intelligent child bringing home C's on his report card but once I let go of that it was much easier; I know that those grades had nothing to do with how much he was learning so much as they had to with the way the school chose to measure that learning. If she must go to school then a different perspective about where school fits into her life might be in order, and communicating that perspective to her teachers on a regular basis will also be important. You will sometimes be met with resistance but if you see a child who is happy and learning then their "expert" opinions are of no concern to you.

HTH!

 

[chaimom]

My son was like this, minus the bullying. He would get so upset if someone else didn't follow the rules. Or if something unexpected happened in school (he always needed to know what was going to happen). In preschool, he would get very upset and cry, for instance, if other kids finished lunch first and the teachers started story time while he was still eating.

His preschool teachers didn't understand this behavior at all, but were kind and worked with him as much as they could. His K teacher understood it immediately and said it's a very common trait of gifted kids. What we told him constantly is that he's not in control of anyone else and that he needs to worry only about himself-- is HE doing the assignment correctly, is HE eating at the speed he wants, is HE standing in line, etc. We also told him to take deep breaths and try not to cry.

He's in first grade now, in a highly gifted school, and as far as I know, he doesn't do it anymore.

I suspect your dd will grow out of it, too. Hang in there!