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I need HELP!! Please read...

1811 Views 3 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  Sarah
6
OMG--I JUST TYPED THIS HUGE POST & IT DISAPPEARED!!!!!!

Anyway...long story short.

My son was circ'd--I didn't know any better, feel very very very guilty, and will NEVER do it again.
:

Here's my son's important circ history:

8 WK appointment: he was a VERY FAT BABY, 15lbs at 8 weeks. He had/has a 'fat pad' that his penis stays inside unless he 'retracts' it and the penis pokes out. His doctor noticed that the back of the tip of the penis had started adhering, and forcefully retracted the rest of the forskin away from the shaft of the penis.

Fastforward~

2 YEAR appointment: Still has the fat pad, still doesn't poke out 'properly' and the doctor sees another 'adhesion' behind the head of his penis. She again forcefully retracts the penis, and he again SCREAMS IN PAIN.

Today: Ds is 3 years old now, still has the fat pad, and his penis is STILL inside. I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH THIS. I treat his penis as 'intact' and don't really pull it back to wash, but let him just rinse it with water while in the bath. My parents, however, have had him this last weekend on a camping trip, and when he came home tonight, the 'outside' of his penis was RED, where they had been pulling it back <forcefully, I imagine> to clean it. When ds got in the bath tonight, he screamed, when he got soap 'in' his penis. I asked him to "retract it by yourself, but don't pull it back so much that it hurts. He didn't hardly even have to pull it back, and I could see that right around the tip of the penis, at the back, there was a bright red ring.

So...My questions:

1) Is he 'intact'?

I *know* he was circ'd <paid the $300
> but I'm just assuming that all these 'adhesions' are normal, after reading information about an intact penis taking years to retract by itself. Why is *his* circ so 'botched'??? What went 'wrong'? What can we do to 'fix' it without having him 're-circed'--um, no thanks, buddy!


2) Are we properly caring for my son's penis?

I know that sounds like a horrible question for a parent of a 3 year old to ask, but I'm honestly CONFUSED. It looks like an intact penis <to an extent> it is FINE when I just leave it alone, let him rinse it, etc. The ONLY time it is red or sore is when my parents have retracted him to clean while in the bath.

After the big issue in the bathtub tonight, I was putting on his jammies and we I just TOLD HIM what was going on...I figured that all this pain he was feeling on his penis might make him feel like something was 'wrong' or 'bad' about HIM and I certainly know that is not true! I just told him that when he was a baby, in the hospital, the nurses took him from mommy and he was circumsised--true story.
I went on to tell him that I didn't know any better then, and that if I had it to do all over again, I would have told them to LEAVE HIS PENIS ALONE! He *smiled* and was like, "Yeah, mom! Nobody touches MY penis!" I explained to him that when Nana & Paw retracted his foreskin to clean his penis, they thought that was what was best for him. That they didn't want him to get any sort of infection down there...and, I also told him the good news...that more than likely, it's not even NECESSARY to pull his foreskin back like that, and that I was going to find out some information to give to Nana & Paw so they would understand what he meant when he told them NOT to touch his penis...he was like, "Yeah, MOM! YEAH!"


So...he's totally cool about all of this, but he wants the pain to STOP. And, now I need information to get to my parents when I tell them not to touch his penis, and they look at me like I'm crazy, that I may be 'harming' him in some way...by not 'preventing' this *unknown* 'infection'...
BLAH!

Please help, you guys! I'm in NEED!!!

TIA!
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No, his penis is not intact if he had a circumcision. That's the only question I can answer, but I'm sure others will be along soon.
5
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamer
OMG--I JUST TYPED THIS HUGE POST & IT DISAPPEARED!!!!!!
I'm long winded so that happens to me a lot. Don't you just hate it?!!!

Quote:
His doctor noticed that the back of the tip of the penis had started adhering, and forcefully retracted the rest of the forskin away from the shaft of the penis.
she never should have done that! She needs to go to the AAP website and update her knowledge!

Quote:
Fastforward~

2 YEAR appointment: She again forcefully retracts the penis, and he again SCREAMS IN PAIN.
Strike two!

Quote:
Today: My parents, however, have had him this last weekend on a camping trip, and when he came home tonight, the 'outside' of his penis was RED, where they had been pulling it back <forcefully, I imagine> to clean it.
You need to instruct them to not do this.

Quote:
When ds got in the bath tonight, he screamed, when he got soap 'in' his penis.
I can imagine!

Quote:
(1) Is he 'intact'?
No. Once a circumcision is done, there is no going back.

Quote:
I *know* he was circ'd <paid the $300
> but I'm just assuming that all these 'adhesions' are normal, after reading information about an intact penis taking years to retract by itself. Why is *his* circ so 'botched'??? What went 'wrong'? What can we do to 'fix' it without having him 're-circed'--um, no thanks, buddy!
The adhesions are the body's normal response to an injury. It is trying to heal itself. Your son is the victim of past problems. Boys used to be circed very tight and that lead to problems when they were adults. Those problems included part of the penis being trapped in the pubic mound, buried penis syndrome, hair pulled up on the penile shaft, painful erections and tearing of the skin during intercourse. Some doctors have tried to alieviate those problems by doing "loose circumcisions" but they have their own set of problems as you are seeing. I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut that the doctor that circumcised your son never told you that there is a high probability this would happen. The way to fix it, believe it or not, is to just leave it alone.

Here's what is happening: In young boys, there is a layer of tissue called the epithelium layer that bonds the foreskin to the glans. It is exactly the same tissue that bonds the fingernails to the nailbed. Just like if you peel a fingernail back, it will try to readhere itself to the nailbed. When you peel the foreskin back, it will try to readhere just like the fingernail. When the time for retraction comes, this epithelial layer will start disolving and the foreskin will become retractile. You need to let this process happen on it's own in it's own time. When he would have been normally retractile if he had not been circumcised, he will become fully retracted.

Quote:
2) Are we properly caring for my son's penis?
Yes, you are but you need to give your parents and any other caregivers very specific instructions.

Quote:
I know that sounds like a horrible question for a parent of a 3 year old to ask, but I'm honestly CONFUSED.
Of course you are! Do you think you should have been born knowing all of this stuff when even your doctor doesn't know it? Your mothering instincts have told you to leave it alone and everything was going fine but a doctor that won't even bother to read her communications from her professional association butts in and then your parents who you trust butt in! It's little wonder you are confused! Stay around here and you will learn the things the doctor should have learned and the expertise she doesn't have but that you are paying dearly for. You're getting confused and gyped at the same time!

Quote:
After the big issue in the bathtub tonight, I was putting on his jammies and we I just TOLD HIM what was going on...I figured that all this pain he was feeling on his penis might make him feel like something was 'wrong' or 'bad' about HIM and I certainly know that is not true! I just told him that when he was a baby, in the hospital, the nurses took him from mommy and he was circumsised--true story.
I went on to tell him that I didn't know any better then, and that if I had it to do all over again, I would have told them to LEAVE HIS PENIS ALONE! He *smiled* and was like, "Yeah, mom! Nobody touches MY penis!" I explained to him that when Nana & Paw retracted his foreskin to clean his penis, they thought that was what was best for him. That they didn't want him to get any sort of infection down there...and, I also told him the good news...that more than likely, it's not even NECESSARY to pull his foreskin back like that, and that I was going to find out some information to give to Nana & Paw so they would understand what he meant when he told them NOT to touch his penis...he was like, "Yeah, MOM! YEAH!"
Good for you for leveling with him!

Quote:
So...he's totally cool about all of this, but he wants the pain to STOP. And, now I need information to get to my parents when I tell them not to touch his penis, and they look at me like I'm crazy, that I may be 'harming' him in some way...by not 'preventing' this *unknown* 'infection'...
BLAH!

Please help, you guys! I'm in NEED!!!

TIA!

You've got the information you need now so you're cool too!

I know another mother who is going through this same thing. If you'd like, you can PM me and I'll put the two of you together so you can compare notes.

Frank
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Well, I don't completley agree with Frank's analogy with the nailbed. I HAVE had serious nailbed injuries- I once munched my finger in a machine and broke the bone of my fingertip as well as the nail and the nailbed- I got stitches through the NAIL so that the nailbed would heal, hopefully without scarring or disfiguring my fingernail for the rest of my life. It worked, but not for THAT nail! When the nail is seperated from the nailbed- it does not ever try to heal- the way for nail to get fixed is for it to grow it's rotation.

Dreamer, let me try to explain why there is a difference between an intact boy who has adhesions between his foreskin and glans and a circumcised boy who has adhesions between what is left of his shaft skin and his glans... why the same rules do not usually apply to circumcised kids with loose foreskins as they do for intact babies...

Imagine you have two ceramic tiles with superbond glue on them and a piece of bread. If you put the bread between the two pieces of tile while the glue is wet- the tiles are adhered to eachother... kind of... the bread keeps the glue on the tiles from forming a permanent bond between the tiles. The bread is like the synechia which bonds the glans and the foreskin of an infant together...it holds together but is already in the process of breaking down. It's purpose is to hold the tiles together but seperate until the glue is cured. The "glue" represents the nature of the anatomy to "want" to be in a wet, covered, protected enviornment.

During the process of maturity, hormones, keretinization, lubricating secretions - eventually create a skin surfaces which can exist next to each other independently. This is like the glue curing, and at the same time as that happens- the bread gradually breaks down- eventually leading to adhesion free structures.

Now the circumcised model. (or the premature retraction of an intact child model- this used to be the standard thing for kids not circumcised... "just" having the Dr. forcefully retract their foreskin at birth and then instruct the mother to "pull back and clean at every diaper change" ... is it starting to make sense? IF the foreskin is forcefully torn- then adhesions need to be prevented.)

The child is born, and his penis bears the same structure as above. The doctor uses a tool to pry the tiles apart and scrapes the bread off the wet glue in the process. Then he cracks one tile in half and puts it back on the other tile's wet glue. What is going to happen? Is this "the SAME" as the intact model... does the fact that there is foreskin over the glans or adhesions mean that it's the same as an intact boy who was never retracted? What is scar tissue going to do when it comes in contact with a raw exposed glans that is searching for it's protective covering? The adhesive bond that is forming between these glued tiles is not the same adhesive bond that is breaking down in the intact model.

Adhesions on circumcised boys usually will resolve on their own without all the tearing, which as you have discovered, is very painful and futile if you don't do it all the time. On the other hand- if you had recieved proper aftercare instructions- you would have been told how to prevent these adhesions from forming in the first place... and HAD YOU BEEN TOLD the aftercare... BEFORE you allowed your son to be circumcised- you would have had a very different idea of what it was you were about to do to his body and it's likely that you would not have circumcised at all. By witholding this critical information from you, they did not allow you to make an informed decision. They should be held responsible for all the trauma that your son has endured during and since his circumcision which never should have happened in the first place. You need to demand that whoever circumcised him reforms their informed consent policy, AND gives PROPER aftercare instructions BEFORE circumcisions happen.

This article explains clearly the info which was withheld from you:
http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/gracely1/

The article is out of date in it's conclusion regarding lysing the adhesions. It is now known that unless they involve the scar line, most adhesions will resolve on their own... but there studies do not explain what "on their own" means... it may mean that grandma and grandpa pin the kid down and tear the adhesions while the Doctor isn't looking... "viola- spontanious adhesion release!"

Which by the way... you need to have a real sit-down with your parents over what they did. They had NO BUSINESS undertaking such a traumatic and potentially EMOTIONALLY damaging, action on your child which was MORE CRUEL than many molestations. I'm not saying that it was the intent of your parents (molesting)... but from the point of view of a little child who has already been genitally traumatized THREE TIMES who is isolated at a campground without his mom, to be overpowered and hurt in the genitals... that is totally UNACCEPTABLE. If they discovered a situation in his pants which they thought needed attention- they should have called you and asked you what was going on... not decided on their own to start tearing at his penis... whatever it was was NOT an emergency, they could have just waited till they got back from the camping trip. They need to know that they can't medicate your child or probe in body cavities without your knowledge or permission... or HIS permission. Tearing the adhesions in a boys penis is as invasive as penetrating the vagina of a little girl. No one should be doing that to a child without a cause, a defined purpose and without the supervision and knowledge of other people who care for the child.

They need to appoligise to him for what they did... and they need to appoligize to YOU and for not communicating with you before deciding to take action in a non-emergency situation... because they don't know. Yes, they need to be educated. Go to cirp.org and search for "adhesions" and also go to www.nocirc.org and check out their publication on premature retraction which has info for you about how you need to address the situation with the doctor who keeps tearing the adhesions. I can give you the number of a lawyer if you want to have a free consultation regarding the situation with the doctors. PM me.

Love Sarah
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