[Rose-up]

Mamas, I need help.

I am really stuggling with my three year old and bed time. She just will not stay in her room, she screams incessantly, and has on occasion thrown herslef so hard at her wall that she gets bruises on her head

:

Our current nighttime routine for her is: at 8pm the tv goes off (if it was on) and we have some chill time in the living room, including straightening up a bit. Depending on the night, either dh or I will then bring her upstairs to go potty, brush teeth, etc. We read or tell a story or two, turn on her quiet music, and leave. She has a nightlight and her flashlight to read by (which evolved out of the fight to stop her turning on her light to read by). She never argues about going ot bed, and often initiates the process herself.

On a freakishly superb night, she'll read for a while, turn off her flashlight by herself, and go to sleep.

But most nights she is out of her room a dozen times of more. It almost always ends in screaming (hers and ours). It is a terrible way to end the day. Four days out tof the week, it is worse because dh is in bed trying to get some sleep (works at 5am) and this can go on for hours, sometimes past midnight, and I am basically on my own with a crying baby and screaming three year old. I am out of patience, and struggle most nights not to physically restrain her

It's like some horribly bad habit that none of us like, but don't know how to fix.

We have tried an early bedtime, a later bedtime, not having a bed time. We have tried threats (as in, "go to bed or I'll take ___"), bribes ("go to bed and tomorrow we'll go ____"), and ignoring her. I never feel comfortable with any of this, but agree to try it because I don't know what else to do. I hate not liking my own child, and this issue is starting to affecct how I relate to her throughout the rest of the day -- I'm much less patient, more controlling, and just generally hostile

I want to be an effective parent -- I want to understand what she needs from me in order to fall asleep peacefully. I want her to feel her concerns/needs are valid, but I'm just sooooo tired, I can't figure this out on my own

I need fresh perspective and ideas for a new approach with this. I want her to sleep. I want me to sleep. I want dh not to be mad at me because he can't sleep.

 

[alegna]

Would it maybe help if she had a spot in your room that she was welcome to come to? If there's not room for another bed, perhaps just a sleeping bag on the floor.

-Angela

 

[Magella]

My oldest child had similar bedtime issues when she was younger, and it took us way too long to understand that she had a great deal of difficulty moving from an active, alert state to a "ready to fall asleep" state on her own even if she's exhausted. My youngest has the same need to be helped to relax into that state, we don't struggle with her because we now know what's going on when we leave and she gets up repeatedly despite having asked to go to bed and being obviously tired. We don't have to stay with them until the completely fall asleep, we just have to stay long enough to help them relax to the point of reaching that state of being about to fall asleep.

There is an excellent description of the stages of sleep, how kids' bodies react to fatigue, and of this idea of moving from an active state to a ready-to-sleep state (along with tips for improving your child's sleep overall) in the book Sleepless In America: Is Your Child Misbehaving or Missing Sleep? by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. It's an informative book, and a very gentle one (advocating gentle ways of helping your child relax so they can sleep, and of maintaining good health and nutrition as part of promoting good sleep).

I'd also suggest eliminating the evening TV time, as watching television can really stimulate kids so that they are less able to fall asleep. Not true for every single child, I'm sure, but it might be worth a try.

 

[katies_mama]

What happens when she leaves her room? What is she commonly looking to get or do? What is your response? How do you get her back in her room? What kinds of things do you do now to try to get her to stay there?

I might have some suggestions for you, but need to know a little more about where you're coming from.

 

[Rose-up]

It really depends on the night (which I'm sure is part of the problem

: )
If I have an abundance of paitence, I'll get her what she's asking for -- the millionths drink of water, one more doll dressed, her pillows arranged *just so* etc. Then I'll walk her back to her room and say "it's bedtime now, I love you, goodnight" repeated ad nauseum. Sometimes she doesn't ask for anything, she'll just hang out on the stairs or in the hallway, then I just call up to her "go to bed please."

Before I even turn her light off for the night, she has gone potty and gotten a drink, been read to, sang to, babies dressed swaddled and arranged, flashlight checked for batteries (she is consumed by making sure the beam is strong) a few books in bed with her, covered with her chosen blanket in the approprite (to her

) direction...it goes on and on, so I feel like she's got plenty of time to wind down and make the transition, and there is deffinately nothing that she physically needs.

My patience gets pretty thin by about the second hour of this, because I'm trying to get the baby to sleep (so I can go to sleep), and I still need to take the dog out, get ready for bed myself, etc. I'm basically waiting on her to finish out my day, and I can get pretty resentful and irritated. It always comes down to yelling -- me at her to get her butt in bed, and her screaming NOOOOOOOOO and then slamming her door. If dh is already in bed, he gets irritated at being kept up, and gets upset with me for not beign able to "control" her

:

Some nights, if it's been a long day or whatever, I go straight to the yelling

I just want to go to sleep. I used to be able to go in, lay her down, flick on her music, say good night, and not hear from her all night. That changed about a month and half after dh got back after being gone for two months. Nothing major happened then that I can pinpoint as a reason for the change in her attitude about sleep.

There really isn't room to lay a sleeping bag down (we have to sit on our bed to use the desktop computer - no chair

)...I'm trying to convince dh that it isn't ridiculous to remove the closet doors so we can fit her bed in the room...he is desperate for some privacy and so doesn't want another child in the room with us...but I don't know what else to do. I'm not really sure it will help her, because whatever room, she will usually be going to bed before me, and I don't want dh to feel resentful about losing his space.

Sorry this got so long...I'm just desperate.

 

[MOM2ANSLEY]

would she sleep by your door???
What if you lay with her a while

 

[katies_mama]

You may need to spend a few weeks where you stay with her or closer by as she falls asleep, and be right there to enforce your limits about where she needs to be. It is not going to be possible for you to parent from a distance and be effective.

I know this is really hard to do when you have a younger baby, too, but it makes sense that your 3yo is going to test her (and your) limits. You may need to enlist your husband's support in taking care of your baby, particularly the first few nights. I know it sounds like a lot more work to stay with her until she falls asleep, but it is probably a necessary step to break the cycle that the two of you have gotten into. It isn't a permanent thing that you'll need to do, but probably necessary temporarily.

After your bedtime routine, you can lay down next to her, or sit in a chair by her bed. Be very low key--don't ignore her, but interact quietly and at a minimum. Be a very boring mama in a dimly lit room.

"I'm going to help you stay in bed--do you want to climb back in or do you want me to lift you?"

"Mama is going to stay with you in your room for a few nights as you fall asleep to help you stay in bed so you can go to sleep."

"Mama is reading her book. It's time to close your eyes and try to relax your body."

It's also worthwhile to examine the bedtime routine and decide if there are things that stimulate her more than relax her (like playing in bed with a flashlight might do this, I don't know).

Right now, her bedtime routine is to come out a dozen times and get into a fight with you. That's not a routine you want to support, and it will take an investment of time to break the habit. This will likely be frustrating for you in the beginning, because you will have to give up your time in the evenings to correct this problem, and the first few nights will probably be a struggle when she tests to see if you really mean it.

However you decide to approach it, good luck!