Mothering Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
653 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First, a history.<br><br>
Ever since I was really young I've had short but extremely easy, predicable cycles. I have clear ovulation symptoms, and easy to read charts that show obvious ovulation. I've never needed to use charting or OPK to determine when ovulation is because my symptoms are so very clear. I menstrate for 4 days, I have two or three regular days, then I have 4 days of extremely hightened sexual awareness, lots of cervical fluid, and ovulation pain. Then I have 14 days of no cervical fluid, no sexual desire, no cramping, no hormonal flucuations, no PMS, no bloating...none of the typical pre-menstral signs. I start to spot about 4 or 5 days before my period comes.<br>
I've been like this for about 15 years and the last 5 months of charting has only confirmed what I've always known.<br><br>
Everything changed last October.<br>
I started charting after a miscarriage at 8 weeks. Though my charts looked normal, my body didn't feel right. Nothing looked wrong, but nothing felt right. Someone here pointed out that my early spotting was due to low progesterone so I went to my OB. He gave me Prometrium without a blood test and I took that for 2 cycles. It didn't help. All it really did was make me more miserable without fixing the early spotting. My breasts hurt too bad to even wear a bra and my lack of a sexual desire turned into a desire to murder anyone who might be having quiet sexual thoughts in the same room as me.<br><br>
Someone then mentioned that my low progesterone was probably caused by my immature ovulation. A lot of woman talk about their early ovulation at or around CD 11. Since October my early ovulation falls between CD 8 and 10. So I went back to my OB. He said some women just ovulate early and he offered me Clomid.<br>
I read up on Clomid and found it would help for 3 months, but what about fixing the problem. So I read up on natural hormonal balencers like Maca Root and Vitex. I went with Vitex because it's popular on this board and if I had a problem there were tons of people to ask.<br>
So I started last cycle on CD 4. I started getting my ovulation signs at CD 4 and they seemed a bit intermittant, like it was trying to start, but not quite. My ovulation phaze (as I call it, which is normally 4 days) was stretched into 6 days and I ovulated on CD10.<br>
I've taken the Vitex faithfully, 1200mg every day. My luteal was a bit easier. No discomfort, no murderous thoughts...in fact for the first time intercourse after ovulation wasn't a chore. I spotted slightly at 12DPO and started my period right on time.<br>
I was very excited because it was my first real, unmedicated, normal period since the miscarriage in October. Finally I feel like my body is back to normal. I feel like this is really truely our first cycle where we can really have a shot at TTC.<br><br>
Here's where I need help.<br>
It's early, early CD 8 and I think I ovulated yesterday...CD7.<br>
Last night I was having bad ovary pain, like my ovary was going to explode. It was so bad I couldn't have intercourse. Now this morning my tempurature is up but I still have the sexual awareness and both my ovaries are sore. When I had the miscarriage I had a pelvic ultra sound and they were looking for anything and everything because I kept getting negative HPT. They were looking for tumors, eptopic pregnancy, cysts, scare tissue...everything. (my pregnancy was confirmed with a very low beta count blood test) They found one tiny cyst that they said was so small it wasn't worth mentioning. I think they said it was 6mm.<br>
This cycle my ovulation phaze (as I call it) was a short, strange 1 1/2 days. I had watery fluid the last half of CD6 and eggwhite fluid the first half of CD7 and (intense) Ovulation pain the last half of CD7.<br><br>
First I'm wondering if that cyst ruptured/burst/what ever cysts do that make them die and that's why I hurt so bad.<br>
Second...did the vitex make me ovulate earlier?<br>
Third...is there anything I can do to push my ovulation back a bit? I looked it up on google and all I got were deals on OPKs and one site saying that early ovulation was a sign of aging ovaries. I'm 38 so maybe I am getting old, but was I old at 19 too? I already talked to my OB about this and his answer is Clomid. To me Clomid is a last resort. I'm ovulating every month, so I'd really like to see if I can balance naturally and save the big guns for a last resort.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,058 Posts
Kittty I am sorry for your loss. It sounds like you've done lots of research. Sometimes that in itself is frustrating because everyone has a different opinion. I have always had shorter cycles with early ovulation too. Now that I am in my 40s I O even earlier. Typical for me is day 10 or 11. Anyway, I think your pain could have been from the cyst rupturing.<br><br>
What I do want to ask you is if you have considered seeing a different doc. Sounds like your OB is just willing to write you a script. Giving meds without testing you to me is irresponsible at best.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
653 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Actually after I posted this I looked at my insurance site and found an Endocrinology, Reproductive; Obstetrics & Gynecology specialist who is very local. I think I'm going to give him a call.<br><br>
Actually now I don't know what's going on.<br>
I'm still having ovulation pain and I'm still having lots of fertile CM but my temp is way up (no, I'm not sick).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
328 Posts
A RE would probably help to find the problem, if there is one. Then if infertility drugs are prescribed and you opted not to go that route (I don't blame you), you could go to a naturopathic practitioner and try accupuncture and herbs. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,058 Posts
<b>Kitttykat</b> Fertility friend says that if you continue to have fertile mucous and other O signs assuem you haven't O'd yet and continue to have intercourse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
653 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
This is the strangest cycle I've ever had.<br>
I had a clear thermal shift before I started the O symptoms.<br>
I've had more fertile CM then ever before. I've had so much EWCM that I could share...I've had to wear a pantyliner.<br>
The O pain is dreadful. First my left ovary wanted to explode, then my right ovary hurt, then my left one took another try at exploding, then my right one hurt.<br>
I almost want to believe I've passed 3 eggs.<br>
I wonder if the Vitex turned my ovary into a machine gun firing egg bullets.<br><br>
This morning I woke up with full body achiness and insomnia...both symptoms that I O'd sometime in the last 6 hours.<br><br>
I got a referal to a very highly recomended Fertility Specialist.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,058 Posts
I hope they can help you figure it out. I am having a weird cycle too. Maybe my first annovulatory one in all the time charting or maybe FF just SUCKS! :p LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
927 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>KitttyKat</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7244428"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">First I'm wondering if that cyst ruptured/burst/what ever cysts do that make them die and that's why I hurt so bad.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I know the situation with your pain has already changed drastically, but just in case it helps I thought I'd tell you how my experience with this went. Back in maybe '94 I got sudden and intense doubled-over pain. When it didn't change after a few hours I went to an emergency walk-in place who decided I had food poisoning because I made the mistake of mentioning what I ate before I got the pain. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: They gave me some kind of medicine and sent me home. When I still couldn't stand up 12 hours later, I called my mom and managed to drive to my parents over an hour away and she took me to the emergency room. Eventually they did an ultrasound and from that decided I had a cyst that had ruptured, they said it was because there was residual fluid floating around. I didn't have the best doctor at that time, actually he totally sucked, and at this point I question if that was ever even a cyst because of my next big emergency excitement...<br><br>
This time last year I spent Valentine's Day with my new hubby at the emergency walk-in place because I was in so much pain I again couldn't stand straight. This pain was beyond even my pain before. And this time I knew to not mention random things at the walk-in place for fear of them grabbing it and telling me crap. Instead I got prescriptions for pain medicine for a painful period. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: And they gave me a shot which did not even remotely change the pain for me. When I was still in pain days later I got a gyn to see me (new to area and didn't have one set up) and she sent me for an ultrasound where they found my left f.tube had some kind of fluid in it. They assumed std and gave me hard core antibiodics which I promptly had a mild allergic reaction, I say mild because I didn't have to be rushed to the hospital like some unfortunate people, but my tongue got sores and began to swell. They gave me different antibiodics and started to at least consider that they needed to look beyond std when I was still in pain. I was basically in varying degrees of pain for at least a month and a half. When I got my follow-up ultrasound they said "oh there is still some fluid floating around in there so that may cause you some discomfort". And boy was that a flashback to '94. I have had periods of extreme pain associated with my period periodically since that '94 episode. When I'm lucky it lasts a day and I find a way to stay in bed since I can't stand up. They never did determine what my tube was filled with, they did finally admit that it could have been filled with blood, since all the blood tests and pee test didn't show any kind of infection or disease.<br><br>
So that was a long story all to say, when I was told I had a cyst that ruptured, it did hurt like hell, and it hurt consistently. But the same thing when I had a tube with fluid in it. And the docs who checked out the fluid thing knew I had a history with a ruptured cyst and they didn't see anything that made them think that was what happened last year.<br><br>
I hope you are ok. I saw you removed your chart. Take care, and I'm sending tons of well-wishes your way. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,626 Posts
I just wanted to add that I had a cyst too, and pain from cysts increases at ovulation and menstruation time...so it could have burst or it could have just grown, increasing pain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,946 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>KitttyKat</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7244428"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Second...did the vitex make me ovulate earlier?</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Sorry I don't have nay answer for you but now I've got a question. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"><br><br>
Isn't that Vitex or Clomid are given to women who Ovulate late so that they can Ovulate early? At least that what I've read here so far. Now I'm wondering how vitex or clomid work? It makes O early for women who has has it late and it can also do the opposite? I've very long cycle (due to cysts) and if I take vitex it's supposed to make my cycle shorter by bringing O early....while it can be taken to make O late too...now I'm getting confused on the role of vitex or clomid <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/confused.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Confused">:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,371 Posts
Kat I'm thinking of you & hoping everything's ok!<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>noorjahan</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7325173"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Isn't that Vitex or Clomid are given to women who Ovulate late so that they can Ovulate early? At least that what I've read here so far. Now I'm wondering how vitex or clomid work? It makes O early for women who has has it late and it can also do the opposite? I've very long cycle (due to cysts) and if I take vitex it's supposed to make my cycle shorter by bringing O early....while it can be taken to make O late too...now I'm getting confused on the role of vitex or clomid <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/confused.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Confused">:</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Vitex acts slowly and indirectly, whereas clomid works quickly and directly. Clomid stimulates your body to make more estrogen, which causes a LH surge and egg release. Clomid can make women who normally ovulate late O early because it makes LH build up earlier than normal since it's taken at the beginning of the cycle. Vitex has to be taken for a few months to get the full effect. It works on the pituitary gland to inhibit gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) which actually inhibits estrogen and LH. Kinda backwards from clomid. Estrogen and progesterone inhibit each other so only one can dominate at a time. Lots of women have progesterone deficiency due to estrogen dominance, so reducing the estrogen has a balancing effect allows the progesterone to be more dominant in the LP. Does that make sense?<br><br>
I don't know a lot about cysts but it's my understanding that they can be caused by estrogen dominance. That's why clomid can cause them or make exisiting ones worse. I guess the estrogen stays medium-high for a long time but not high enough to O so you O late - but I really don't know. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"><br><br>
HTH & someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
927 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>noorjahan</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7325173"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">now I'm getting confused on the role of vitex or clomid <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/confused.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Confused">:</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
My understanding of the role of Vitex is that it helps your individual reproductive system to find its proper balance. For one woman that may be to O earlier for another it may be to O later, but ultimately they are both moving toward a more balanced position. Again, this is my understanding and in no way is this an expert statement, etc. <a href="http://www.susunweed.com/Article_Vitex_RedMoonHerbs.htm" target="_blank">Here</a> is an article that helped me decide I wanted to try Vitex, maybe it will be helpful to you. There seems to be a lot of varying info regarding Vitex out there.<br><br>
I don't know anything about how clomid works.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,946 Posts
MJ and Kripa, thanks for the explanation. Now, I understand the role of vitex more. I guess that's how herbs work. I've once asked my accupuncturist to give me some herb for progesto....but she said there is no herb that will "only" work to increase my proges...level. Herbs don't work that way...it doesn't target one hormone level to increase or decrease rather it balances out. I really didn't quite got her that time, but now after reading your replies I think I got it by adding 2 and 2 together!! Thanks!!<br><br>
I'm little biased against vitex...I won't try that.<br><br>
Question- has anyone here heard about False Unicorn Root herb??? (sorry KT don't mean to hj your thread)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
927 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>noorjahan</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7332306"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Question- has anyone here heard about False Unicorn Root herb??? (sorry KT don't mean to hj your thread)</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
My impression is that herb is much stronger than others. Susan Weed in <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Wise Woman Herbal For the Childbearing Year</span> says, "False Unicorn root is regarded as a pwerful and positive uterine tonic. It is also believed to have a strong beneficial and alkalinizing influence of the ovaries, kidneys, and bladder. Always noted as 'the' herb for infertility, False Unicorn root is difficult to obtain except in commercial combination tinctures and capsules." She also says False Unicorn root is considered too powerful to take during pregnancy without professional advice.<br><br>
I have no personal experience with the herb. Susan Weed's book is great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,295 Posts
Hi, Kittykat, do you have an update?<br><br>
I am wanting to conceive (WTC? LOL) while still nursing my 2 1/2 year old twins (they have slept through the night for about a year now, though)... And am looking for ways to regulate my cycle and ovulation without Clomid. Not really interested in another set of twins, LOL. Unless God gives them to me directly, without the meds. Anyway, I just bought some Vitex/dong quai and can't wait to try it.<br><br>
Just wanted to mention, it sounds like you should probably stay far away from Clomid, IMO. It makes cysts excruciating, often doesn't work on women who have regular cycles, and when it does work, very often produces twins. (I took it because I'm practically anovulatory/amenorrheic and needed to help my body ovulate.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
427 Posts
You should try accunpuncture. I have had many patients who have told me that accunpunture helped them lengthen their cycles, not to mention it doesn't involve any nasty drugs!
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top