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Discussion Starter #1
<p>Ughhhhh....</p>
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<p>My dd was supposed to stay the night with my grandma tonight and meet us at another relative's house for T-day dinner tomorrow. Grandma told me she would be alone because my niece's father was coming to pick her up for the night.</p>
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<p>My niece CAN be nice to my dd, BUT she also lies, deliberately hurts the feelings of others, can be mean and exclusionary, and is very whiny "You don't love me" when things don't go her way. I have had problems with her in the past blaming things on my dd when she actually did them herself. You can SEE her do something or hear her say something, and she will still lie and say she didn't do it or didn't say it. I can handle them being together in supervised activities or when there is a trusted adult with them to directly oversee the situation but I don't like them left alone. My g-ma knows this and tries to "secretly" get them together whenever she can. For example, she will ask if my dd can stay at her house, then after I leave she will be on the phone to niece to see if she can come over. I stopped leaving dd there for awhile but recently she has stayed a few times with no niece.</p>
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<p>So I drove dd to G-ma's house, 40 mile roundtrip for the second time today, and who was there but niece in her pjs! I ended up having a talk with my dd about the reasons I didn't want her to stay there (in another room). She was horribly disappointed but agreed to come home. When I told G-ma she would be coming back with me she asked, "Why?" I said, "You know why!" because she DOES know why. Then she held my dd on her lap and of course made me look like the big bad mommy for taking her home. She asked again why dd couldn't stay and I said, "Because I don't like the way she (niece) acts. I can't control the way she acts, that's her parents fault!" We left and I called my DH a few minutes later. He asked why G-ma called him crying saying she wasn't going to T-day dinner tomorrow. So she's ticked at me, my sister will be ticked at me when G-ma tells her what I said, and everyone at the dinner is going to wonder where she is tomorrow. I'm ticked at her because I don't like being lied to and manipulated. I hate that my dds feelings were hurt by G-ma's drama. I know she thought that I would see niece after we got there but I would be too chicken ^&*t to be rude and/or hurt dd's feelings to actually DO anything about it.</p>
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<p>And yes, I have tried to "make nice" with niece by taking her along on our activities a few times. She doesn't usually like to go with me though because she knows I will call her on stuff. Things don't usually go well. A couple of examples - took her to the art museum for a class, she sat in our 3rd row seat in the car deliberately chucking things at dd2's head (dd2 was in the 2nd row). Took her skating, she said she skated all the time with friends and was good - she fell a couple of times, refused any help to get up or help to skate, spent the rest of the time sulking because I wouldn't give her money for the games (I spent most of our extra money on her admission).</p>
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<p>I wish there was a "good" solution, but I don't see it. My kids shouldn't have to be targets for her to pick on just because they are cousins. I had a cousin like her growing up and we were thrown together all the time. Maybe that's where part of this resentment is coming from. I'm just tired of the assumption that they should be friends because they are family. I mean yes, that would be nice if they were, but if niece wasn't family to dd and they met at camp or church or somewhere I don't think I would see them being good friends because their personalities are totally different.</p>
 

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UThat must be so frustrating that your Grandma doesn't take you seriously.It really sucks when you feel you can't trust someone. I don't think it was right for her to lie to you to try to get your DD and her cousin to spend time together.<br><br>
However I don't know enough about your niece to say the way you treat this child iis warranted. I think you are probably right that your own experience is jading your behavior. If your DD was not worried about spending time with her cousin, why did you force it?<br>
Was it because you were trying to prove a point to grandma? I'm not sure what the best solution would be. Could you be frank but understanding when you talked to her.Something like "i see that keeping family together is so important to you that you would risk disrespecting me, but when you don't let me know that niece is there it feels like a huge.insult.and it makes me feel like I can't trust you. I don't want this to happen again so I felt I had no option but to take DD because I felt if I left her you might feel vindicated and not tell me the whole.truth next time.<br><br>
I do think you need to reexamine your behavior though too. You are teaching your daughter how to feel about her cousin. Many children act the way you describe your niece acting, not because they are malicious but because they are children learning how to be. We use discipline to address the behavior but you shouldn.t hold grudges. when you label a child they will live up to your expectations. If DD says she doesn't want to be near cousin that's one thing, but if she accepts her as a fellow child with faults and things to learn, I think you should too.
 

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<p>I think you did the right thing.Grandma is in the wrong for inviting over the other girl when she knows you are not comfortable with her bahavior.She is also being childish by crying and refusing to go to the holiday dinner.She is trying to make everyone upset with you.None of this would have happened if she did not have that other child over.</p>
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<p>If the child can not act properly when adults are WATCHING you can imagine what she does when supervision is lacking. I would not want my child with that type until they got a better handle on their actions. If attitudes get out of hand today I would politely leave early. I would also reconsider having my child with grandma alone.Grandma obviously does not respect you as a parent.It is your right to decide if the children get together.</p>
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<p>You are right that people put up with crappy behavior just because it is *family*. That is silly. There is no reason others should be angry because you are uncomfortable with this child. Instead of helping her learn from her poor behavoir they are ignoring it and blaming you for not being patient enough.Kids put up with various types of abuse for a variety of reasons,but imo it does not make it ok just because the child is willing to endure it.</p>
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<p>You have given the neice many chances to correct her bahavior,and now  it is time to limit contact to teach her that  the things she does are not tolerated.How long are you expected to put your child with her for her to learn good behavior?Hopefully everyone will behave today!</p>
 

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<p>(((hugs)))</p>
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<p>Families and holidays can be so difficult, can't they?</p>
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<p>It sounds like last night was kind of the last straw.  From what I read, you've tried explaining before why they cannot be together without you and she just isn't getting it.  It also sounds like you've tried to let them have some one on one time but it hasn't worked out very well.  I'm guessing that your message could have been sent a bit more diplomatically but I also understand being at the end of your rope after explaining your position (nicely) over and over again just to have it ignored.  What more can you do?</p>
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<p>I think you are right that Grandma thought you'd go along to keep the peace.  You called her on it and she threw a temper tantrum.  Eh, ok.  I guess she needs some quiet time until she can be nice again.  If she decides to have that quiet time on Thanksgiving day there really isn't much you can do about it.</p>
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<p>I'd have a back up plan for today.  If your sister (or SIL?) starts in on you or if others do, have plans to leave and spend a quiet, peaceful day with your immediate family.  I think that would be better than a huge turkey day blow up, ya know?</p>
 

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<p><br>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>mattemma04</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1281717/i-ticked-off-a-relative-now-they-are-threatening-to-not-come-to-t-day-dinner#post_16072822"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br>
....<br><p>Hopefully everyone will behave today!</p>
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<br><br><p>I wonder how many people/families are thinking this today?  ;-)</p>
 

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Discussion Starter #6
<p>I think it is more complicate than that, Helimom. My dd is a "smoother". She doesn't like people to be in disagreements and will try to mediate the situation. Sheo also doesn't like people to feel left out (which is a great quality!) so she will give people chance after chance even if she doesn't really like them that well. She can walk into almost any group and find a way to have a good time (which amazes me, I was the opposite at her age).</p>
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<p>She told me last night that niece often asks her to do things she doesn't want to do, and she didn't like that. I told her it was perfectly fine to say no if it's not something she wanted to do. She said that it is hard to say no sometimes so we talked about peer pressure issues and not feeling pressured into doing things. Niece gets dramatic, acts all hurt and pouts, says "You don't like me" and tries to manipulate the situation. Dd just wants everyone to get along so she tries to smooth things out. Or she thinks that she should play with niece because that's obviously what other family members want. I don't want her to interact with someone because of manipulation. I guess I don't want that to be the "status quo" of how she thinks relationships go. And again, that issue of mine comes from a past relationship of with an ex-boyfriend who was very controlling and manipulative. I do feel like I need to teach her that she can stand up to people who try to guilt trip her or try to make her be their friend through manipulation. And that it is okay to speak up when ANYONE (family or friend) puts you in a situation you don't want to be in.</p>
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<p>When I was growing up (and even now) my family isn't the type to just discuss things head on. If family member x makes family member y mad,  y generally wouldn't confront x. Y would instead call family members z and a tell them why they are mad at x. Then either z or a (or both) would tell x, x would defend themselves, z or a (or both) would call y and tell them, and then the next time everyone saw each other it was like the whole thing never happened. I got tired of that after I had kids, and just started saying things straight out which was totally against the dynamic and ruffled lots of feathers. I also don't feel the need to automatically defer to older family members about my parenting choices, which is also something that was generally done in the past.</p>
 

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<p>Sounds like grandma is just as manipulative as niece. But she's an adult. If she wants to do herself out of a nice thanksgiving dinner, what can you do? I'd put on a cheery (blissfully ignorant) face and head off to eat turkey. If they give you a hard time, leave. Sounds like you drew your boundaries firmly. Good for you. Keep it up. Manipulation is a two way street & it won't be effective if you don't play.</p>
 

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<p>I hope the "it's all the parents' fault that the child misbehaves" comment doesn't come back to bite you in the butt--I kind of cringed when I read that you said that to Grandma (who is going to pass it on to everyone who will listen).  I have made that sort of comment and--hooo boy.</p>
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<p>That being said, you were annoyed and angry and upset.  Things happen.  It does feel good to "tell the truth" but even that has consequences.  I think it's reasonable to expect that your SIL is going to be pissed that you were talking smack about her to grandma because you don't like her kid--as a whole people generally don't like people talking about them behind their backs.  On the upside, if you don't like these people, that could be a good thing. </p>
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<p>I would ignore crying grandma though.  Meddlers know what they're doing.  I'm sure your instincts that she thought she would get away with it because you wouldn't say anything are correct.  Unfortunately, because of the way you went about saying it, now she gets to blame the situation on you.  If you want, later, I might apologize to SIL/BIL (probably NOT at T-giving dinner) and just say that you were having a really bad day, you were already stressed, and you regret saying that to g-ma because it was inappropriate to say in front of g-ma and the kids.</p>
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<p>I think though, that should you choose to try and repair things, that you own your own part of it.  Don't blame grandma for making you say anything (she didn't).  I'd own that I lost my temper, and that I should have known better.  If grandma is super manipulative and meddling, and everyone knows how she is, I'm guessing they will probably ignore it though.</p>
 

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<p>I'm sorry. Good for you though standing up for your DD and to G-ma. Its hard to stand up to family. I'd let her know that No means No, even if she doesn't like it and your sorry she has a hard time with that, but that's how things work.</p>
 

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<p>Is this your family or your husbands?  What is his view on this situation?  I have heard that in-law trouble can cause a huge rift in relationships and I really suggest that you talk to him about his point of view on this situation and how he wants to proceed.  I don't think it is wrong to decide who you want your child to be friends with, but I also see how your family would be hurt by you deciding that your niece is a bad person at a young age and running with that view to the point of not having anything to do with her.  Grandma most likely loves her very much and felt hurt that someone wouldn't love her and would be so openly cruel to a young child and that may be why she is lashing out in pain because she sees you on the attack and wants nothing to do with someone who attacks her loved ones.  It sounds like you see the child on the attack and feel the same way.  Hopefully you can compromise. </p>
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<p>For what it's worth, your niece sounds like a normal child who is testing boundaries and doesn't want to get in trouble.  All kids go through a phase like this and just because your child doesn't do it to her cousin doesn't mean there aren't kids she doesn't do it to.  Being a peacemaking child doesn't mean that she doesn't also have a tendency to be a child also and I think it is important to keep that in mind when dealing with kid issues.  If a relationship with your niece (and the family in general) is important to you and your husband I suggest doing activities in your home where you can monitor things closely until she is done testing you.  I have called parents to come get their kids early when they are sulking or not being redirected from manipulative behavior and it hasn't ruined anything.  I tell the kid why I am calling the parent and that they can try again the next week and it tends to go better the next week.  I have found that when a child knows I will send them home if they are negative or manipulative at my house they also know that I will send them home in public at a super fun outing, plus I don't feel angry toward the child for making an expensive outing miserable. </p>
 

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<p>Totally this. Grandma disrespected your request as a parent and then tried to make you the bad guy.Whether or not she agrees with your reasons for not wanting your niece alone with DD, she needs to respect your wishes.<br><br>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>fuzzylogic</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1281717/i-ticked-off-a-relative-now-they-are-threatening-to-not-come-to-t-day-dinner#post_16073090"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-right:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-bottom:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>The best answer is "so sorry, we'll miss you."  And leave it at that.....</p>
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Discussion Starter #13
<p>I "unplugged" for the weekend to get some stuff done. Thanks for all of the replies.</p>
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<p>My comment about it being her parents fault was simply from the frustration that her parents act like 95% of what she does is just the cutest stuff ever! When she lies, they have said (in front of her) "Oh, she has such a great/vivid/wonderful imagination!" When she throws a fit and whines, she gets whatever she wants. I certainly don't think that ALL bad behavior from ALL kids is the result of their parenting, but when you can blatantly lie to someone and your parent praises it and doesn't discuss why you shouldn't lie to people with the child, then the child has no reason to try to behave in a different manner.</p>
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<p>I also never said we were writing her off, I did say they are together in settings where they can be observed. That way no one gets blamed for something they didn't do and if lies are told you can generally know whether they are true or not. G-ma just lets them go in a back bedroom with the doors shut. One of the last things that happened to make me not want them alone together was that when my dd was about 6 niece announced to her one day, "Your sister is dead!" Dd was all upset thinking something happened to her baby sister. Niece also told my dd (around the same time) to get on the phone with a much older man and tell him he was sexy, she liked him, etc. Niece was on the phone saying those thing too but my daughter got blamed by my sister. I talked with dd about it and she didn't even know what the word meant, and I believed her because we didn't let her watch adult or even teen shows, and she was homeschooled so she didn't pick it up at school! Niece however had said things like that before and said she heard them from older kids at school.</p>
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<p>Anyway, the point of my post wasn't about my relationship with my niece, but about how I felt really disrespected in my parenting choices by my grandma. G-ma ended up calling dd the next morning and apologising to her. G-ma did come to T-day dinner and we went over to her house over the weekend and helped her fill out a bunch of paperwork she was struggling with. I haven't heard from my sister but she doesn't talk to me very much anyway. And to TigerChild - I do own what I said, if I didn't I wouldn't have posted it here. I could have left it out or glossed it over. I'm not denying I said it and if it gets me "in trouble" then I will deal with it.</p>
 

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<p>I have no advice, but your post is so close to something i could have written it's eerie!  My niece has similar behaviours at time, i too dislike DD seeing her unless there is good (i.e. MINE) supervision and NO WAY would i be allowing sleepovers either.  It sucks that gma is dramatic about it, but there you go.  I was told i was being hypersensitive about their interactions but i'm sorry, this kid told mine (about her baby sister) "you're only her HALF sister, i'm her FULL cousin".  I understand she's jealous of DD having a baby sibling but DUDE!  My kid is already dealing with a blended family, that comment was NOT cool.  But then who can one blame but her parents, who put such things in her head.</p>
 
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