[lactationmom]

Well, thanks to ALL OF YOU, and your infinate wisdom some months back when I was preggo, I have won the fight over circumcision for my son, Eli. He is our 2nd son, but 3rd child, and this was a HUGE issue for my hubby. Just to refresh you on us:<br><br>
hubby said he wouldn't look like other son (penis that is)<br>
said he wouldn't look like him (penis that is)<br>
hubby said he would be teased when he was older (really??)<br>
etc etc<br><br><br>
Well, I wrote to you, got some excellent articles and he read them, the conversation stopped. Eli was born, at home with a midwife, and it was great. A healthy, beautiful 10 pound, 2 ounce baby boy, with an intact penis. Never a discussion about it, it's just the way it is!!!! Our other son has asked about it and also our 7 yo daughter, whom I educated about how cruel circ'ing is, and one day I heard her telling her baby brother (Eli) that mommy and daddy were nice and didn't have anyone cut their penis like poor Dayne (our 3 yo son). Luckily, Dayne didn't hear that!! Anyway, just wanted to say THANKS AGAIN for your quick help with references, they did the trick!!!<br><br>
Thanks from Eli too, he is a much more contented, easy-going baby than the other 2, maybe because his life has been so gentle.<br><br>
Edited to add: today was Eli's first ped's appt-he weighs 13 pounds 10 ounces and is 23 1/2 inches long-he's a big one!!! Go breastmilk!

 

[Frankly Speaking]

A huge congratulations not just to you and Eli, but to your entire family. I suspect this will be the end of circumcision in your lineage. Generations to come will rejoice in this birth!<br><br><br><br>
Frank

 

[Quirky]

That is so AWESOME!<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banana"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banana"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banana"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banana"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banana"><br><br><span style="font-size:xx-small;">This is the happy penis dance, but shhhh...don't tell the mods, we're a family-friendly board!</span><br><br>
Congratulations on a beautiful, healthy, intact bouncing baby boy!<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/biggrinbounce.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bgbounce"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/baby.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="baby"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/biggrinbounce.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bgbounce"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/baby.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="baby"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/biggrinbounce.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bgbounce"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/baby.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="baby"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/biggrinbounce.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bgbounce">

 

[somemama]

I'm so happy for you and your little one!!

 

[Gitti]

love it , love it, love it....<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"><br><br>
It makes my heart sing...<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/guitar.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="guitar"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/guitar.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="guitar"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/guitar.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="guitar"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/guitar.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="guitar"><br><br>
Congratulations to the whole family!<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/clap.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="clap"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/clap.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="clap"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/clap.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="clap"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/clap.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="clap">

 

[Xenogenesis]

That's Wonderful!!<br><br>
ps. Yay, Breastmilk!

 

[momsmyjob]

That's wonderful ...I have 4 boys and none of them are circ'd. It wasn't an issue with DH. He thought it was cruel for a baby's first experience of the world to be pain.<br>
Congrats on the birth!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin">

 

[lactationmom]

The neat thing is, I know my hubby was kidding when he asked about circ'ing him after he was born, he was trying to get my goat so to speak.<br>
What I have noticed is, he is becoming sort of an advocate for not circumcising, like mentioning how 'big' Eli is, as in penis size (why are men so fixed on this, he he) to others, like my dad the other day. He is slowly changing his tune to things, with some solid research to back him up he will take a look at both sides of an issue. Yesterday we got into a 'discussion' with our ped about vaccines, ohhhhh that was tough. Anyway, this has changed him for the better.

 

[alissakae]

Thanks for sharing! That is SO great!<br><br>
Before our first son was born my dh was unsure about what to do (he comes from a circ'ing family), I was very against the idea (no one in my family circs)...so after researching the issue my dh clearly saw the light. Now we have four intact boys (ages 18,17,13, and 22 months) and dh is VERY anti-circ and influencing others to leave their boys intact. See what turning just one man around can do?<br><br>
I'm so happy for your family <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love">

 

[DesireeH]

<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/biggrinbounce.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bgbounce"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/biggrinbounce.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bgbounce"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/biggrinbounce.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bgbounce"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/biggrinbounce.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bgbounce"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/biggrinbounce.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bgbounce"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/biggrinbounce.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bgbounce"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banana"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banana"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banana"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banana"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banana"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banana"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banana"><br><br><br>
YAY! YAY! That is great!!

 

[Mommiska]

Heather - I'd wondered what had happened - I'm so happy for you and your ds! Yeah!

 

[ja mama]

Congratulations on your 'win', but those words don't even do justice to the cause. I lost with the first and won with the second boy, but my dh still hasn't changed his mind that circ is 'better' and he has been completely inundated with info. I am actually jealous of you, but in a happy supportive way. I don't want you to not have this happiness, I just wish I could share the joy of having a reformed dh with you.

 

[lactationmom]

Ja mama-<br>
I know what you mean, win isn't the best word, but the only one I thought of at the time.<br><br>
Maybe your husband just doesn't want to admit anything, some men are so protective (not the word I want to use but again, first one I thought of) of being 'right', maybe he knows you are right but just doesn't want to give in??? My hubby is like that a lot, even about this issue, he has been very very quiet about it, but I also know him, and if he really really felt he was 'right', he would have fought me down to the wire (which he didn't, he gave in quickly when I showed him the research).<br><br>
At least one of your sons is intact, I feel a victory for Eli, maybe not Dayne, but I will teach Dayne that we were stupid and let medicine dictate what we decided (I won't blame daddy totally!) and that things changed once we read more on the subject and thought about it more. I will teach him that he is still beautiful and normal, but that he should leave his son's penis's like God gave them-intact.

 

[Frankly Speaking]

Heather:<br><br>
There are some parallels in the feelings of circumcised men and circumcised African women. The African women can and do have satisfying sex lives (as the men do) and deny they have been harmed. (as men do) The women are strongly influenced by their culture (as are the men) that the modified female genitals are more attractive, cleaner, healthier and more likely to be acceptred by the opposite sex. The African women have the same feelings that circumcised men have and strongly deny that harm has been done to them. They are so convinced that they perpetrate the same procedure on their daughters so they can enjoy the same benefits. (as the men do)<br><br>
The pressure is intense on a circumcised or an intact man. We are all well aware of the myths in our culture that the intact penis is ugly, dirty and undesireable. That is something that is hard for any man, intact or cut to get past. For the intact man, there is always the nagging suspicion that there is something wrong with him and for the cut man, there is the relief that he doesn't have to deal with these issues. For a circumcised man to support leaving his son intact, he has to accept that everything he has heard his entire life is wrong and that he has been harmed. Those old cultural myths are hard to let go because we have a vested interest in them being true. Accepting the truth means accepting that we were wronged and are not able to reach our full sexual potential.<br><br><br><br><br>
Frank

 

[lactationmom]

Wow Frank, I honestly never thought about it like that, thanks for your insight.<br><br>
I can relate what you said to what I see in my husband. Like I wrote above, he hasn't said much about it at all, but he makes comments that lead me to believe he feels fine, even good, with this decision. I never wanted to bring it up after presenting him with the research, I didn't want any arguments about it as, at the time, we both felt strongly about our 'sides'-but we were on opposite 'sides' of the issue. So, by not bringing it up, and having a homebirth where it was NOT going to be an issue anytime soon, I knew things were in my favor. He would have to take Eli to a MD to have it done, and I knew he wouldn't go that far (because of how strongly I felt against it and because of the literature I presented to him demonstrating that circ's are being done less and less and are now not recommended by the AAP).<br>
I should know how he feels, by talking to him about it, but so far we just haven't talked about it at all. One of these days I will get his honest opinion about it, and I hope he feels as good about it as I am thinking he does.<br><br>
My dad is seeing my side of the issue, and my brother is asking questions about this as he and his wife are looking at starting a family in the next few years. So, this will reach several men in my family, and I dare them challenge me as I have all the facts I need to back myself up, thanks to you guys!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">

 

[Frankly Speaking]

Heather:<br><br>
I suspect this is all rolling around in your husband's, brother's and father's heads. Probably more so your husband because he is the one directly affected right now. This is something they have to get their brain wrapped around and sorted out. It's not something that is on the top of their minds but rather in their subconscious and occasionally, something will bring it to the top for a few minutes. As this happens each time, it will make a little more sense. Eventually, at least your husband, will have a day of profound revelation when it all clicks and it all makes sense. All of the pieces will fall together and they will understand. In the meantime, they are (at least subconsciously) waiting for an infection or something to prove they were right. When nothing happens, it will all make sense.<br><br>
I believe this is much harder for a man to accept than for a woman. A man is directly and personally affected and I believe the myths and lies take much deeper root in their mind than in a woman's mind. Since a woman does not have this direct relationship with the issue, she can more easily step back and take an unemcumbered view of the evidence and come to a more rational view of that evidence. We men come to the issue with a truck load of baggage. We have to unload that baggage first.<br><br><br><br><br>
Frank

 

[Xenogenesis]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><i>Originally posted by Frankly Speaking</i><br><b>We men come to the issue with a truck load of baggage. We have to unload that baggage first.</b></td>
</tr></table></div>
Two excellent points made. We really need to understand the process the circumcised man has undertaken to dealing with/accepting his intact son(s).