Mothering Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I'm a clock watcher. DS is 15 months old and our days seem to go on forever. I look forward to the end of the day (even though he wakes up hourly) just to be able to relax.<br><br>
It is so hard to fill our day. He is not walking independently yet. It is cold and rainy most days, so we can't be outside too much. He hates the car, so going too far (over 15 minutes) isn't fun for anyone. He only stands shopping carts for a few minutes and will only be in the stroller if you are speed walking. And forget baby wearing at this point, that's a no go.<br><br>
What do you do all day with your one year old? Any suggestions for activities?<br><br>
I love DS so much and sometimes we have a lot of fun. But, we don't have many friends and our area doesn't have many options for younger kids.<br><br>
I want to enjoy our time together more and I feel bad for admitting this, but I need some suggestions or commiseration!<br><br>
Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,214 Posts
<p>Do any of your community centers have open gym time for babies/toddlers? I've recently discovered that. My DD is VERY social and even just going to a coffee shop (we have some great kid centered cafes here) and putting her in a high chair with lunch or a snack is great fun for her (and I get to relax a bit too!) We also go to the library a lot - at least once a week.</p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
<br><br>
Thanks for your reply! Our Y has open gym in the mornings only. It's a possibility for us to do that, but we seem ok in the morning and I don't have a membership.<br><br>
Maybe I'll have to try to find more children friendly coffee shops. He gets frustrated if he has to just stay on my lap and I haven't found one here that has high chairs. I'll have to keep looking.<br><br>
Thanks for the suggestions!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,549 Posts
<p>We have a community drop-in centre which is basically a big playroom for little ones & it's free. Most communities around here have something similar. We have been going several mornings a week since ds was about 8mos. What I find is that by going out in the morning it actually makes the afternoons going faster 'cause we're just in the house for less time.</p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>lifeguard</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1290244/i-m-a-clock-watcher#post_16171021"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p><br>
We have a community drop-in centre which is basically a big playroom for little ones & it's free. Most communities around here have something similar. We have been going several mornings a week since ds was about 8mos. What I find is that by going out in the morning it actually makes the afternoons going faster 'cause we're just in the house for less time.</p>
<br></div>
</div>
<br><br><p> </p>
<br><br>
I wish we had something like that here! Maybe I'm just missing it. That makes sense about going out in the mornings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,883 Posts
<p>What part of Washington are you in? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>We are Y members so if the kids get antsy we often go to the Y and I check them into childcare for an hour or so. They both enjoy the Y and the caretakers are pretty good. I can exercise, read a book or the newspaper, or just sit and drink tea in peace, and that's de-stressing for me.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Several local malls have play areas, and if we get really desperate for activity, we stoop to visiting the McDonalds playland.  We also have a once-weekly toddler group, and a one-weekly volunteer commitment. And we just joined an AP meetup group near us and have been to several events.  Twice a day I get to attempt to put DS down for a nap, and he's finally more reliable about napping on his own. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>The 2 community centers nearest us do have drop-in playtime, but I think there's a fee, and it's higher if you aren't a resident of their city/area.</p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
<p>At that stage, I read a lot, and let her wander around the house being amused by life.  </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Here are some other options.</p>
<p> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;">1) I live in a University town, so the local university has baby classes, like Mommy and Me, but not.  I sign my daughter up for Baby Swimming & Baby Gym, and I'm not fooling myself that they're for her.  Check with your local University's phys ed department, the local YMCA, etc.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;">2) I started a laid-back MeetUp.com group for local moms. We now have about 50 members, and a weekly meeting at the local germ pit at the mall. Sometimes only 1 or 2 moms shows up, but hey, at least we're trying, right?</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;">3) I visit the local public library frequently, and sign my daughter up for Story Time every opportunity.  She loves hanging out there, and I can grab a book for my sanity.  Plus, they host a really cool book club--last year it was Jane Austen and this year it's Virginia Woolf.  </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;">4) I signed her up for music classes.  We started with Kindermusik, but a) it was expensive and b) it was way too structured for her.  Our local University's music department has a community arts program that does Infant and Toddler music classes. It's mostly nursery rhymes and music games, but since I'm pretty sure I'm tone-deaf, it's great fun for her -- and again, I get out of the house.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;">5) I visit the local Barnes & Noble for the day-time story time.  In fact, my daughter learned to pull up on the train table in the kid's section! :)  Your local bookstore should have something similar.  It's a great way to meet other moms and find a book club.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;">6) I audit a one-credit hour class at the University so I can take her to the Very Nice Rec Center (AKA gym) and splash in the pool.  Great way to meet other moms!  Check your local educational institution/gym for such an opportunity.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;">7) I joined a local Holistic Mom's Network group (and promptly got myself kicked out at the national level, but that's another story), and when the local leader agreed with me, she turned it into a local crunchy mommy group.  Check Yahoo Groups, Craigslist, etc. for local mommy groups.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;">8) I keep track of activities in town with a Sunday subscription to the local paper, periodic checking of the local tourist bureau, state park websites, etc.  There are a shocking number of family friendly activities.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;">When all else fails, in good weather, we just go to the local park and hang out.  In bad weather, we go shopping. My daughter has no expectation that we will ever buy anything, but the mall and Target have become places I just let her stretch her legs a little. And me stretch out of the house!!</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;">I checked out MOPS locally, but they're really religious here (AKA fundamentalist Baptist), and I am Not.  The Mom's Club here is very active, but they're also <em style="font-style:italic;font-weight:inherit;">only </em>mothers. They wouldn't even let my husband come to one of the monthly meetings to pick up some literature for me!  The local childcare co-op (it is a university town, which tends to attract liberals like flies ;) is nice, but it's oddly enough, very pricey.  (I calculated it out to $11.65/hr last year)</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;"> </p>
<p>Finally, I hired a babysitter. I don't leave the house, usually, but having an hour or two to myself 2 or 3 times a week has made all the difference in the world for my sanity!!  I tried to go some place at least once a day, just to get out of the house.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Is there a Children's Museum near you?  They're often great fun, too.  </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
533 Posts
<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Courtney-Ostaff</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1290244/i-m-a-clock-watcher#post_16171676"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;">7) I joined a local Holistic Mom's Network group (and promptly got myself kicked out at the national level, but that's another story), and when the local leader agreed with me, she turned it into a local crunchy mommy group.  Check Yahoo Groups, Craigslist, etc. for local mommy groups.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<br><p>:) I loooove all the suggestions your wrote, great ideas :)) </p>
<p>I have to ask (if you are up for telling that story) - how did you get kicked out of HMN? :)</p>
<p>I'm thinking of joining one in my area and your story could be good learning point for me :)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>For the OP - find at least one or two other moms with similar schedule and kids of similar age, and then you can create your new group, Mommy&Me _____________ (fill in the blank, yoga, stroller-walk-a-thon, anything...). I know that finding space can be an issue, but local libraries, coffee-shops, even Malls (I know of a babywearing group that meets in a public lounge area in a Mall)....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,442 Posts
<p><span><img alt="lurk.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/lurk.gif"></span><br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Courtney-Ostaff</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1290244/i-m-a-clock-watcher#post_16171676"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;"> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;">7) I joined a local Holistic Mom's Network group (and promptly got myself kicked out at the national level, but that's another story), </p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:2px;padding-left:0px;"> </p>
</div>
</div>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
640 Posts
<p>Our 18 month old daughter gets out of the house almost daily.</p>
<p>Like the OPs child, mornings are usually easier. But we find if we go in the morning it does make the afternoons easier too like a pp said.</p>
<p>Our dd goes to:</p>
<p>* baby drop-in and kindergym at local community center. It is free, fairly close, a good mix of structured time with a "circle time", a snack time and lots of unstructured play time with activity centers. </p>
<p>* story time at the library. Or just to visits at the library. It has a good kids section that has big comfy chairs and kids can run around a bot too. It is on it's own floor, so being quiet isn't as important as it is at some libraries.</p>
<p>*she took a mommy/baby swim class with my dw. That was not free, but not too expensive.</p>
<p>* during summer she is at a great local park several hours a day. Just home for lunch and nap then back at the park until dinner.</p>
<p>* during winter, she either goes for walk down street in the snow, or walk to the nearby mall and walk around inside. Dd loves to walk the corridor, stop and dance at stores music, ride the kiddie rides and sit in the food court and have her snack. We just pack snacks for her whenever we leave the house.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>My dd is with a caregiver 2 days a week, with my dw 3 days a week, with me 1 day a week and then one day on the weekend we are all together as a family. No matter who she is with, we all do a variety of these things. She usually only is out of the house 5-6 times a week during these winter months. During the spring, summer and fall she is out a couple times a day. There is a big difference in our days that we are in the house and days when we have gone out. </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
<p>
LOL! </p>
<p>
 </p>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
Since y'all asked, let me dig in my email archives for you:</div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<em>Note: Not for the easily offended</em></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(75,0,130);">Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:21:37 +0000</span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(75,0,130);">Subject: [HMN Connection] Re:compensation for docs with 100% vac rate??</span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(75,0,130);">I am sure there is. I do not know for sure - However I do know that 65% of their income comes from vaccines. This was a statement from a Doctor presentation I went to. </span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(75,0,130);">Casey</span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>To: [email protected]</em></span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>From: [email protected]</em></span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:21:37 +0000</em></span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Subject: [HMN Connection] Re:compensation for docs with 100% vac rate???</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Putting aside the issues of whether or not vaccines are harmful:</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>This is just the sort of statement to make people go, "geez, those anti-vax people are nutballs!"</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Stating that 65% of doctors' income comes from vaccines is not logically coherent. </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>For one, assuming that doctors administer vaccines leaves out the vast number of vaccines that are administered through county health departments, clinics and so on by registered nurses, licensed practical nurses, nursing technologists, and health care assistants. </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Nevertheless, even if we assume that doctors administer all vaccines - not all doctors administer vaccines. Since you're discussing pediatric vaccination, only 7.5% of doctors are pediatricians. </em></span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em><a href="http://www.bls." target="_blank">http://www.bls.</a> gov/oco/ocos074. htm</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Therefore, to assume that 65% of doctors' income comes from just 7.5% of all doctors is blatantly impossible.</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>However, even if we were to give this statement the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you meant 65% of pediatricians' income comes from vaccines leaves out several facts.</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>1) Most states buy all the vaccines required for their underinsured/ uninsured/ Medicaid/ indigent populations and distribute them. See Section 1928 of the Social Security Act. The states compensate vaccine administrators at cost, not profit. Government purchases of vaccines, costing $1 billion a year, account for more than half of U.S. vaccine sales. Therefore, it is unlikely that those purchases could account for any of the 65% of the doctor's income. </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>2) 16 percent of children who are covered by private health insurance are in plans that exclude benefits for immunizations</em></span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em><a href="http://www.apha." target="_blank">http://www.apha.</a> org/publications /tnh/archives/ 2003/10-03/ National/ 826.htm </em></span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Again, these children are unlikely to be sources of income for vaccine administration.</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>2) Insurance companies know don't pay for the vaccines, but only for injection of the vaccines. (via my pediatrician)</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>3) The problem for the doctor is the issue of balance billing. If the insurer covers $50 but the vaccine costs $100, and the insurance company, or Medicare, prohibits balance billing to cover the cost, so then the vaccine becomes a loss to the doctor. That is why when you go to the doctor, they cannot charge you more than the insurance company is willing to pay. </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Check here for the current vaccine price list:</em></span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em><a href="http://www.cdc." target="_blank">http://www.cdc.</a> gov/vaccines/ programs/ vfc/cdc-vac- price-list. htm#pediatric</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>In addition, see how often a vaccinated child actually pays the cost of the vaccine? Never. Most insurance companies only reimburse for a well-child visit, during which your child may be vaccinated.</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>But, let us be generous and say that the cost of the vaccine and vaccine administration is covered by a well child visit, and assume that a child gets a vaccination at every well-child visit up to the age of 2, with 5 more to be administered over the next four years, and 2 more to be administered at age 10. Do you really think that these visits make up the majority of the doctor's visits?</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>On average, people make four doctor's trips a year:</em></span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em><a href="http://www.cdc." target="_blank">http://www.cdc.</a> gov/nchs/ data/nhsr/ nhsr008.pdf</em></span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>The average annual number of doctor visits per 1,000 children is 1,725 for long-term uninsured children versus 3,461 for insured children.</em></span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em><a href="http://www.familiesusa.org/resources/publications/reports/unmet-needs.html" target="_blank">http://www.familiesusa.org/resources/publications/reports/unmet-needs.html</a></em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Therefore, those are at least three visits with no immunizations - at least 75% of pediatrician visits involve no well-child visit, and therefore no immunization. How can a doctor possibly make 65% of his or her income from 25% of the visits?</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>They cannot! </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>In fact, I called my pediatrician' s busy practice, and asked. www.cardinalpediatrics.com  She offered to let me examine her books, in fact. Not only does she not get kickbacks for administering vaccinations, she actually loses money. She budgets it into her office expenses the same way she would electricity, or practitioner insurance. </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Why?</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>She says that it's part of a child's medical care, and as the child's medical care provider, it's her obligation to provide the care - even at a loss.</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Why do doctors kick out families who don't vaccinate?</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>She says it's very simple. Not providing medical care (AKA vaccinations) is child neglect. She has colleagues who, upon a parent's refusal to allow a child's vaccination, automatically call Child Protective Services. My doctor is more lenient. However, doctors see a refusal to vaccinate as neglect, and if they continue to see families whom they know are neglectful of their child's health, then that leaves doctors wide open for a malpractice lawsuit. </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>So doctors simply refuse to see those families, and avoid knowingly leaving themselves open to charges of complicity in child neglect. </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Remember, doctors are REQUIRED by law to report child abuse and neglect, and can go to jail for not reporting child abuse and neglect - not to mention losing their practitioner insurance!</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">From: Eileen Landies </span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">To: [email protected]</span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:58:02 AM</span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">Subject: [HMN Connection] Re:compensation for docs with 100% vac rate???</span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">Courtney:</span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">I beg to differ on a point or two:</span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">1. This is a current trend, not something that was happening even 3 years ago. Something has changed. </span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">2. Your statement below regarding doctors "know" they (parents) are neglectful. There is no knowing here, just an opinion. Now how is this opinion derived? A Dr forms his/her opinion, as do we all, from the information we have available to us. Most medical schools are heavily subsidized by the pharm industry, not to mention faculty and researchers jump in/out of academia and pharm employers. Almost 89% of all CME courses are funded or conducted by the pharm industry. All of the medical journals receive funds from the pharma industry. Almost all of the research conducted regarding vaccines and their safety have been conducted by the pharma industry. The CDC, NIH,FDA, etc. are also heavily funded by the pharma industry. So, the prevalent source of their "opinions" are based on the knowledge they have obtained by the companies and individuals that stand to profit from a drs promotion of their products. Not a very reliable opinion.</span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">3. It is apparent that you are connected with Marshall University, an institution with strong affiliations to both a Medical and Nursing School. I have also noticed that the many of your responses are entrenched with the dogma preached by those institutions. </span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">Speaking for myself only, I became a part of HMN and this loop to find alternatives to the readily available institutionalized dogma. As a scientist, I appreciate good stats and credible sound science. However, I always take into consideration the motivation, funding, outcome, and caliber of the individuals providing the information when looking at any data. I certainly hope that each and every one of us look to these questions as well.</span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">Respectfully,</span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">Eileen</span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);"><strong>Note: At this point, I lost my temper. :)</strong></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>From: Courtney Ostaff @marshall.edu></em></span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>To: [email protected]</em></span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:16:18 PM</em></span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Subject: Re: [HMN Connection] Re:compensation for docs with 100% vac rate???</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>1) I wouldn't know. </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>2) I asked my doctor. This is what my doctor said. I am repeating what my doctor said, because I find it interesting that nobody actually went and asked a doctor for the truth. You prefer to make stuff up based on what people who are not in a position to know have to say - e.g., run for a conspiracy theory.</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>3) When you accuse me of being a PR flack for "the man", let's get all my "affiliations" straight. Sure, I'm affiliated with Marshall University, in that I have a degree from there. I have also attended Glenville State College, the University of Houston, and West Virginia University. I have a Bachelor of Arts in History and a minor in Sociology, with Honors, Cum Laude, in the Honors Program, as a John Mashall Scholar from Marshall University. I was also a National Merit Scholar and won a full scholarship to the University of Houston and to Marshall University. I was accepted to medical school at age 16 at the University of Southern California (but did not attend). I have a master's degree in Public Administration from West Virginia University, cum laude. I also have a year of law school from West Virginia University College of Law - I quit because I felt they were ethically challenged. I also have all the courses but student teaching to be certified to teach public school in the state of West Virginia in science and social studies from grades 5 through 12.  </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Oh, and I won a NASA Research Fellowship to study species differentiation in Madagascar's mouse lemurs under Dr. Suzanne Strait-Holman at Marshall University. I taught basic computer skills to low-income West Virginia residents as part of my graduate student assistantship under Dr. Karen Harper-Dorton in the Division of Social Work. I currently teach Environmental Science, Introduction to Life Sciences, Foundations of Business, Critical Thinking (which you could apparently use), Skills for Learning in an Information Age, Basic Math, Algebra I, Algebra II, Finite Math, Supervision and Leadership, Organizational Theory and Behavior, Introduction to Marketing, and Math for Teachers for the Axia College of the University of Phoenix. Oh, and I also donate money to Planned Parenthood, Big Brothers Big Sisters, the Girl Scouts, the ACLU, Smithsonian, National Geographic, and the World Wildlife Federation.  </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>You say you're a scientist - what're your creds? I don't see you looking for any opposing views to challenge your mindset. In fact, I see a paucity of opposing views on here - I'm the only one who will stand up and say, "Hey, you're mindlessly repeating crappy information." God forbid you go ASK someone for their views and create a dialog.  </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>I didn't say, "Take what my doctor says as the truth." I said, "this is what my doctor says." You could debate that what she is saying is the truth, but instead, you want to attack me as being a mouthpiece for "institutional dogma." You don't have any data that contraindicates what my doctor said, so you're going to exclude it on the basis that she's part of "system", where I'd bet money you get paid.</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>This is the 3rd or 4th time I've been accused of being just a hack for pharma, medicine, or some such ____.  </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>I joined this group because I thought I'd find it openminded and open to new ideas about childrearing. FYI, when I joined this group, nobody said squat about vaccination, not even on the main web site. I paid upwards of $50 for the priviledge of belonging to an organization that is as narrowminded and set in its ways and just plain MEAN to each other as the local trophy-wife Parents Club.  </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>And what do I get for my bucks? An email loop that is free to set up, a low-cost electronic forum, an email "newsletter" that is entirely volunteer-written, and a cheap plastic membership card. I don't see any of these upper-middle class women actually getting off their butts and trying to make the world a better place for anybody else, unless it's by trying to sell products of questionable value to each other. As far as I can tell, all the money goes straight to pay salary for central administration. </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>How do I know you're upper middle class? If you think $50+ is a nominal membership fee, you all spend $800 a month on food, and there's a spirited discussion on finding nannies - and no one says, "Yo! Maybe you should actually try PARENTING your kids instead of passing them off to strangers." Your kids don't get sick because you keep them at home with other upper-middle-class white kids - god forbid they go out and play in the toxic world with sick kids from low-income households. </em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Not to mention, my husband and I adopted his niece from his clinically mentally ill sister at the age of eleven, after she had already suffered severe physical, sexual, and verbal abuse. I have an intimate knowledge of the inside of psych wards, courtrooms, and social service offices from that particular experiment. How many of you have adopted severely abused children, oh holier-than-thou ones? ___, how many of you have adopted local children instead of the fashionably poor on other continents? How many of you have been to your local psych hospital? How many of you have been woken up at 3am by some mother accusing you of stealing the child she beat so hard they required stitches? Tell me, where does the Holy Grail of Anti Vaccination come into play in that scenario? No, let's protect our precious little white babies from some helpful medicine that may have side effects, and ignore the pain and suffering of the rest of the world. Spiritual books for kids my ___ - god forbid you actually take your little one to work at soup kitchen! They might get TB, and you can't cure that with blessed sheep dung.</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>Had I known that Holistic is code word for "New Age Spiritual ____" and that the HMNetwork was really a group of hysterical, rich-____ anti-vaxers taking advantage of the fact that everyone else vaccinates their kids, I would have saved my money. I suppose that I should have known that every time I point out idiocy on an email loop, I would get accused of being a shill for "the Man", because you all are as fundamentalist as my local _____. I'll bet you vote Republican, too.</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);"><em>From now on, you can take your nonsense and shove it where the sun don't shine - but of course, it's already full of tibetan healing crystals!</em></span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(165,42,42);">From: "Director, Holistic Moms Network" </span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(165,42,42);">To: [email protected]</span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(165,42,42);">Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:26:54 PM</span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(165,42,42);">Subject: Holistic Moms</span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(165,42,42);">Courtney:</span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(165,42,42);">I have to say I am quite taken aback by your message to the Online Connection, the tone of which is offensive and inappropriate for posting. I am not sure how you came to your conclusions about HMN, particularly with regard to vaccination, as we have resources, articles, books and speakers on our website, at our Conferences, at Chapter meetings, and more. And I do believe that many, many of our members are working quite hard to make a difference - some in small ways, others in rather big ones, starting groups, getting involved in political action, and much more. What's more, I am shocked at your assumption that your $45 member is going to "central administration". HMN has no office, virtually no staff and as Executive Director I have not only worked for FREE (yes, FREE) full-time, for 5 years, but have also donated thousands of my own dollars to make this organization happen and continue. And I am not wealthy. I struggle to put food on the table but believe passionately in educating parents and empowering them to make both big and small changes.</span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(165,42,42);">I'm sorry, I just don't even know what else to say to address these wild accusations. - Nancy</span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(165,42,42);">Nancy M_______</span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(165,42,42);">Executive Director</span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(165,42,42);">Holistic Moms Network</span></div>
<div>
<span style="color:rgb(165,42,42);">www.holisticmoms.org</span></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<em><span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);">From: Courtney Ostaff @yahoo.com></span></em></div>
<div>
<em><span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);">To: "Director, Holistic Moms Network" </span></em></div>
<div>
<em><span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);">Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:43:06 PM</span></em></div>
<div>
<em><span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);">Subject: Re: Holistic Moms</span></em></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<em><span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);">Yeah, well, I figured you'd censor anything that offended the spiritual _____. Interesting that none of your website or facebook stuff says anything about vaccination. Yeah, they're working to make it better for more anti-vaxers - you should just rename it the anti-vaxers mother group. Fascinating that you can't actually list anything that the money is going to - and it was more than $45, as I got a family membership.  </span></em></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<em><span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);">You're wealthy enough to be able to afford to donate your time, lady, which more than most mothers can do in this country and you don't even know how wealthy you are.</span></em></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<em><span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);">Yeah, it's not a wild accusation to say that doctors get 65% of their income from vaccinations, and that kind of ____ is ok to spread, but god forbid someone calls you on your hypocrisy. Don't worry, I don't want to be associated with you any more than you want to be associated with me.</span></em></div>
<div>
 </div>
<div>
<em><span style="color:rgb(0,128,0);">-Courtney</span></em></div>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
<p>Courtney: As my husband would say after reading something like that...."You Must Be A Ginger!" Haha.....it's ok, I have red headed tendencies as well, even though my hair color is just chestnutty. The one thing that stuck out in one of your replies was the fact that your doctor states that they know of other doctors who call CPS when a parent will not allow vaccinations. I'm not one to get into the middle of that controversy, I have my own ideas and have formed them with knowledge from people who are close to me who are on both sides of the spectrum...but CPS? Really? That happens? Is that supposed to be a way to actually protect the child or to protect the doctor should the child come down with an illness that resulted from the lack of vax? Just wondering....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyway....there are some really good suggestions on this thread. For the most part my 16 month old daughter and I hang out here on the homestead. We live on a 50 acre farm in rural New York so there are not a lot of options for us in town anyway. For the most part my daughter just enjoys following me around throughout the day and "helping" around the house. When the weather is nice we go outside and roam around the property and visit the horses and chickens. I bought my husband a Nook for Christmas and he downloaded a bunch of kid's books and activities and we have been playing and reading with that - something that I did not think she would sit still for, but she actually loves it. I also check the local paper for things to do....the paper only comes out bi-weekly but there is always a big community calendar section - and while there is not a lot of exciting events, there are a lot of small "goings-on" that are fun for her....kite flying festivals, farm markets, maple sugaring demos with sleigh rides, kids crafts, small concerts and stuff like that.</p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
<p>To protect the doctor should the child come down with an illness that resulted from the lack of vax....otherwise they could be liable for damages resulting from the illness. Which is stupid, hey, the US is the lawyer capitol of the world.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I feel that it should be an individual's choice, but yeah, I have a bit of temper. ;)</p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:Originally Posted by Aufilia <br>
What part of Washington are you in? <br><br>
 We live in Tacoma.<br><br>
Thank you for all the great suggestions. I'm going to look in to a bunch of things you all suggested.<br><br>
I'm not going to get in to the whole HMN thing as I'm limited on time, but I did join when I was pregnant. But, they meet about 20 minutes away at 6:30 pm. That is my son's bed time and I am the one who puts him down. So, after he was born, it just wasn't feasible to go anymore.<br><br>
 
<p> </p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Courtney-Ostaff</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1290244/i-m-a-clock-watcher#post_16172909"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>To protect the doctor should the child come down with an illness that resulted from the lack of vax....otherwise they could be liable for damages resulting from the illness. Which is stupid, hey, the US is the lawyer capitol of the world.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I feel that it should be an individual's choice, but yeah, I have a bit of temper. ;)</p>
</div>
</div>
<p><br>
Hey I'm glad that you did post that though...it made me want to look into the whole doctors paying for vaccines vs. what the insurance company reimburses. Google actually links you to alot of articles that show just how much doctors lose on vaccinating and how many practices are limiting or even doing away with providing them altogether. Many doctors were discussing how they are finding themselves referring patients to public health clinics to obtain vaccinations that are required for children to enter school. From what I can tell, most insurance providers will pay for the base cost of the vaccine and a small amount for actually giving the injection. So if a particular vaccine costs $120, they will give them $120, but in reality it may cost the practice around $140 to keep the vaccine on hand due to refrigeration, electricity and insurance that it costs to store the shots. They estimate that it cost to acquire vaccines is 17-28% higher than the actual cost of the vaccine itself....the insurance providers wont cover that overage and it is against the law to bill patients for the difference. You learn something new everyday I guess.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Way off topic for this thread...but worthy of a read.<br>
 </p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,883 Posts
<p>Maybe this group? <a href="http://www.meetup.com/tac-aap/" target="_blank">http://www.meetup.com/tac-aap/</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>The Seattle AP group seems active but even their "south end" activities are probably too far north for you. </p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
<p> </p>
Thanks, Erin! I just signed up for the group. That was sweet of you to look it up for me.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top