I'm curious how/if this column meshes with GD...

593 Views 5 Replies 6 Participants Last post by Plummeting, Jun 20, 2005

nonnymoose

Discussion Starter · Jun 19, 2005

I know a lot of members here think John Rosemond is evil incarnate, but he had an interesting column in today's paper about the true goals of parenting. Would some of you mind reading it and telling me what you think?

Here's a link to his site...follow the links from "weekly column" to "Discipline is about Leadership" - for some reason it won't link directly to the page.

By the way, I'm specifically asking about this column, so no fair digging around for something else to get mad at

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Ione

· #2 · Jun 20, 2005

I admit I skimmed it after an early sentence convinced me that nothing he could say would ever mesh with my view of GD.

Oddly enough, I found myself agreeing with his last paragraph... but it only reinforces my impression that I wish to stay well away from this guy.

What I agreed with was:

Quote:

All too many of today's parents think discipline is about the mastery of methods, which is one reason why the discipline of children, once a relatively effortless thing, has become such a ubiquitous hassle. The fact is that no method will work for long without the right mindset, and with the right mindset, methods are hardly necessary.

Unfortunately, for him, he has the most totally wrong mindset I could imagine, at least if this quote is anything to go by.

Quote:

Discipline is the process by which a parent turns a naturally rebellious child into a disciple, someone who willingly follows the parent's lead.

There is so much that is wrong with that quote. Briefly:
1/ children are not "naturally rebellious". Which is just another way of saying "kids are bad, you have to make them good". Kids are "good", naturally. Always, at least at first.
2/ discipline, IMO, is not about making children obedient. It is about guiding them, teaching them, and helping them bring out the best in themselves.

Now, I've got a toddler to attend to... more later.

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maya44

· #3 · Jun 20, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ione
children are not "naturally rebellious". Which is just another way of saying "kids are bad, you have to make them good". Kids are "good", naturally. Always, at least at first.

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Dragonfly

· #4 · Jun 20, 2005

ITA with Ione.

I think he's absolutely correct that many parents are too concerned about manipulating to get short-term gratification in ways that are not compatible with long-term goals for raising a healthy adult.

He's way off-base, though, IMO, in his assertion that commanding obedience is the way to raise an adult that "at age 30 is confident to take on challenges, perseveres in the face of adversity, and accepts full responsibility for the consequences of his or her own behavior."

Discipline is about facilitating learning. Sometimes that means leading, sometimes following, often walking side-by-side.

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annab

· #5 · Jun 20, 2005

The biggest problem is that he does not once talk about whether or not a child is happy or respected. Naturally rebellious child? What a sad, misguided, dim view of children and humanity. If I did not disrespect him so much, I would be sad for him.

"Leadership is not enabling; it is challenging. Leadership is not indulgent; it is inspiring. Leadership is not permissive; it upholds high expectations. Leadership is not compromising; it is exacting. Leadership is not about the clever manipulation of reward and punishment; rather, it is primarily a matter of how one communicates."

He frames these comparisons as opposites. I don't think permissive is the opposite of high expectations. His goal in all of his columns is obedience, and I do not think that rigid obedience produces good thinkers and problem solvers. I produces kids who cannot think for themselves.

My Psych 101 view of him is this: He holds his mother up to be the greatest parent of all time. She was a single mom, who by his own admission did not have time to spare for him. His approach seems to be that if he did not get the love he needed, then no one else should either.

He is one of the least respectful advice columnists I have ever read. A mom wrote in to ask if her son was getting enough time with other kids. I think that is a legitimate concern. He concluded the column with this:
"Meanwhile, working in my top-secret parenting laboratory deep beneath the earth's surface, I have discovered that mothers who ask questions of this sort are thinking about their children entirely too much. They desperately need "hobby" therapy or "job outside the home" therapy or something along those lines." How condescending is that? Why anyone would seek his advice is beyond me.

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Plummeting

· #6 · Jun 20, 2005

"Discipline is the process by which a parent turns a naturally rebellious child into a disciple, someone who willingly follows the parent's lead."

WTF? That is disgusting. While he seems to be giving some sort of lip service to GD in the rest of the column by stating that rewards and punishment aren't the best ways to motivate a child, that statement right there proves that he is all about breaking a child's spirit and turning them into an obedient little robot. Ick.

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