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Tuesday night I took my DD1 (12yrs old) to the ER and she was admitted to a pediatric psych hospital. She'd been depressed but late Monday night I found out it had become worse and she was cutting herself and having suicidal thoughts. I also found she'd been having very sexual conversations with strangers online and visiting porn sites. So after she got home from school Tuesday we picked up my DH (her step-dad) from work and took her straight to the ER.

For a long time she's been lying about things. In the past she's forged signatures, lied to teachers about homework, lied to me about if she had plates and bowls in her room, etc. Little things, big things. She's been lying for a long time. Even last week she spent the night at her cousin's house. When we picked her up I asked if she helped feed the horses and she said no. DD LOVES feeding horses, so I thought that seemed weird. On Easter we went over there again and I asked her cousin why Ayla didn't help feed the horses. Cousin tells me DD DID help feed the horses, in fact DD had asked to do it.

Anyway... fast forward to today. On the way to take DH to work I noticed that DD had left her notebook in the back of the car. I grabbed it and figured she'd want it while she's in the hospital. The case manager though had been very clear that she can't have anything referencing death, suicide, etc so I opened the book and started reading it to see if it was something she could have. Most of it were poems and stories she'd also written in other places. All about cutting, suicide, etc. There were a couple diary entries as well. And then I saw a letter she wrote to her friend T.

She wrote this in the car after I tried talking to her about feeling depressed and suicidal, etc. She wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't look at me, etc. This is the last thing written in her notebook that she left in the car. After talking to her we picked up DH and then went to the ER.

What am I most concerned about? Well, she mentions she's not a virgin anymore and names 8 names. She claims I called her a suicidal whore. She also claims that now that her step-father knows she's a "whore" (her word) that he's been hitting on her.

I NEVER called her a suicidal whore! Not once. I told her I was worried about her because I saw she had been suicidal stuff and visiting suicide websites, and that I also knew she'd been going to *inappropriate* sites for a girl her age. I never, ever, called her a whore.

And as for DH hitting on DD, well, it's just not possible. DH and DD are very, very, rarely even in the house together without me, and if they are DD2 is ALWAYS around, and it's never for long at all. Plus she says "Now that he knows I'm pretty much a whore" he's been hitting on her. But we didn't discover that (the porn, not that she's a whore) until late at night on Monday and then went straight to bed. And the next day, as soon as we picked him up, we went to the ER. There hasn't been a single time for this to happen.

But if she lies about this to someone else our whole family is going to be destroyed. DH's sister lied about her step-dad (DH's dad) molesting her and it ruined their family. DH was put in foster care on his 7th birthday while it was investigated And after it was found to be false, well, the family never was the same. His mom and dad ended up divorcing. He is freaked that she would make up a story like this.

I can't deal with this. I am freaked too. DD has lied all her life. I told the psych liaison at the hospital about it. But I don't know if she believed me, or thought much of it. I don't know why DD is so screwed up. I don't know why DD seems to want to tear apart this family. I don't care either. I don't think this is something that can ever be healed between us.

I really don't know what to do.
 

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I don't have any advice, but I couldn't read and not respond. Hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs for you and your family. I hope someone has something useful to tell you. Prayers or vibes or just generaly good feelings for you and your family. I hope everything turns around for you all soon. Take care.
 

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I know this has got to be breaking your heart somewhere in there, even if you are completely lost and worn out. To me it sounds like she is Borderline Personality, but I'm not a pro. You did the right thing taking her to the hospital. I really hope she can find some help and peace. But the lying, cutting, promiscuity, etc. all fits.
 

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im so sorry you guys are going through this. obviously i know very little about the whole situation so i apologize if this is way off base but i wanted to ask just in case. how much do you know about the friend? how long have they been friends? the note doesnt read like it was written to a confidant who is trying to help someone in a horrible situation. it reads more like two teenagers who bring out the very worst in each other are bonding over things like sex, porn, cutting, suicide etc its a wicked dangerous road to walk & perhaps even more difficult (but entirely possible) to come back from.
 

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Please know that no matter what your DD does it is not to tear your family apart. She is a child. She is only trying to figure out her way in this life. No matter what she says or does please find it in your heart to remember that you love her and please forgive her. I went through something very similar when I was 15 and my mother said the same things about me. She still hasn't forgiven me.
 

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Mama wether or not those things she wrote where said, that is what SHE perceives. So to her they are relevant, and those things are happening.

I struggled with depression/suicide from 8 on, and was hospitalized 5 times for it, so i have been around the block, so to say, with all of these issues.

Why did you have to pick up your DH when you took your dd to the hospital?

I would listen really closely to what she is telling you and not through things strait to her simply lying. Maybe she told you that she didnt feed the horses because she wanted a way out of talking to you, or wanted to make you feel bad for bringing her over there to begin with....and maybe she sees you DH as touching her butt inappropriately because someone else has done something innocently like that and it turned into something much more serious.......all maybe.

I would take some time out to spend some quality q on 1 time with your dd, and listen to EVERYTHING she says. Dont brush anything under the rug, listen to her, not to your little baby girl, but to the individual spirit and soul that is living in the body of your child.

Its a tough road, it took me a long time to be able to sort through my emotions to see the truth, and to be able to deal with the anger and sadness of my past. It effects every child differently, so what might not be a big deal to you your dd might not have had the cpoing tools to deal with it, and still might not be able to. And also vise versa, what you perceive as a big deal. might not be anything to your dd, because of the coping mechanisms that she has built up to protect her......
 

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I am so sorry you are all going through such a very difficult time. I can imagine how upset you are with your dd but she is so young and can't possibly understand how damaging what she is doing is (that doesn't make it okay of course). The last thing she needs is for you to withdraw your love and I understand your anger but she's so young and she needs you so much right now.
I am just heart broken that a child is making such long term decisions with no doubt no concept of the enormity of them. My heart hurts for you because you are having to watch your child being hurt and hurting herself (and the intense emotions that have to go along with that). I am so incredibly sorry.
 

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I know that you must be going through a ton right now! Please know, though, that psychiatric hospitalizations tend to be very short (3-14 days) and the planning for intensive post-hospitalization services, support, and loving supervision needs to start ASAP. Know that there is limited evidence that individual therapy is effective with young teens- the most proven therapeutic approaches are family therapy and group therapy. If it's at all possible I would try to find both a family therapist to see weekly and a group therapy program or intensive outpatient/partial hospitalization program. It is likely she will be discharged with less than a days notice. When she is discharged I would not leave her alone at all- sleep in her room, don't leave her alone at all. Create a lot of structure in her days like she has at the hospital- on days she's not in school or at a treatment program make sure to get her out of the house and doing something. If she wants to go hang out with friends go with her, or invite friends to go with you to the mall or zoo or whatever. Talk to your work about taking family medical leave. I am not saying this because of the self-injury, I am saying this because of the suicidal thoughts. She will likely still be having suicidal thoughts post-hospitalization, and is probably at a very high risk for running away. Some parents sleep in their childrens rooms or right outside their bedroom doors for months after they are hospitalized.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrietsmama View Post
To me it sounds like she is Borderline Personality, but I'm not a pro.
Her DD is too young to be accurately diagnosed with a personality disorder. Borderline traits are common among teens in general, and are also common in other disorders, especially mood and anxiety disorders. I was diagnosed with BPD traits- it turned out that in addition to having PTSD my thyroid had died causing extremely severe depression and psychotic features- which looked a lot like BPD to some doctors.

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Originally Posted by tinyblackdot View Post
Mama wether or not those things she wrote where said, that is what SHE perceives. So to her they are relevant, and those things are happening.
I agree with that. She is expressing something that is going on to her- whether it is accurate to what actually happened or not. She may or may not know if you called her the W word, but it is most definitely expressing something about how she feels about herself.

I would look into the CSA allegations- it's very possible possible that something has happened to her. I am not saying by your DH, but in general.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
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Originally Posted by 1littlebit View Post
how much do you know about the friend? how long have they been friends? the note doesnt read like it was written to a confidant who is trying to help someone in a horrible situation. it reads more like two teenagers who bring out the very worst in each other are bonding over things like sex, porn, cutting, suicide etc its a wicked dangerous road to walk & perhaps even more difficult (but entirely possible) to come back from.
We don't really know a lot about this particular friend. She lives a couple of blocks away and they go to school together. She's hung out with her here in the neighborhood before, but that's about it. I definitely wouldn't consider her a confidant.

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Originally Posted by demottm View Post
Please know that no matter what your DD does it is not to tear your family apart. She is a child. She is only trying to figure out her way in this life. No matter what she says or does please find it in your heart to remember that you love her and please forgive her. I went through something very similar when I was 15 and my mother said the same things about me. She still hasn't forgiven me.
I do love her and I haven't said anything to her about being angry. I've only told her I'm worried and want her to get better. I don't even know if I'm angry though. I'm in shock. I'm worried. I'm overwhelmed. But angry? Trust is gone though... and that's going to be hard to overcome.

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Originally Posted by tinyblackdot View Post
Why did you have to pick up your DH when you took your dd to the hospital?
I had to pick up DH because there was no way I could handle DD1, DD2, and DD3 all at the ER alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labyrinth View Post
I know that you must be going through a ton right now! Please know, though, that psychiatric hospitalizations tend to be very short (3-14 days) and the planning for intensive post-hospitalization services, support, and loving supervision needs to start ASAP. Know that there is limited evidence that individual therapy is effective with young teens- the most proven therapeutic approaches are family therapy and group therapy. If it's at all possible I would try to find both a family therapist to see weekly and a group therapy program or intensive outpatient/partial hospitalization program. It is likely she will be discharged with less than a days notice. When she is discharged I would not leave her alone at all- sleep in her room, don't leave her alone at all. Create a lot of structure in her days like she has at the hospital- on days she's not in school or at a treatment program make sure to get her out of the house and doing something. If she wants to go hang out with friends go with her, or invite friends to go with you to the mall or zoo or whatever. Talk to your work about taking family medical leave. I am not saying this because of the self-injury, I am saying this because of the suicidal thoughts. She will likely still be having suicidal thoughts post-hospitalization, and is probably at a very high risk for running away. Some parents sleep in their childrens rooms or right outside their bedroom doors for months after they are hospitalized.

I would look into the CSA allegations- it's very possible possible that something has happened to her. I am not saying by your DH, but in general.
Thankfully this program is helping us with referrals for outpatient therapies and groups. We're going to be making big changes here in the house, but I do also have 2 younger children to take care of. And not much support here. I'm not working though thankfully, so I don't have to deal with that too. We're planning on sleeping in the living room when she comes home. There is no way out except through the living room.

I've been trying like crazy to think when any abuse may have occurred if it did. I just can't think of anyone I would suspect. But that doesn't mean much, does it?
 

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We don't really know a lot about this particular friend. She lives a couple of blocks away and they go to school together. She's hung out with her here in the neighborhood before, but that's about it. I definitely wouldn't consider her a confidant. QUOTE]

have they gotten closer recently? she must consider her a close friend since she is sharing all that stuff with her. and they are cutting together... its not something that comes up in casual conversation... not to mention its generally something someone would do alone... esp. since any friend worth having would tell your parents. mine did. is she still hanging out with her other friends? sorry i am prying you don't have to answer at all... its just that at her age i wrote a few letters almost identical to hers and the bolded parts were not true for me either. the lying, cutting, porn, sex etc.were also things i did. though i lied the most.... including (maybe even especially) telling my friend i was doing a bunch of stuff i wasn't & that my parents were doing horribe things that they werent. i wasnt trying to hurt my family i was just to young and to be honest had to sheltered (not in a bad way actually in a good way) to understand the seriousness of my words & actions.
 

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Momma I am so sorry
My son was recently assessed as at risk for suicide and hurting my DH although he has not been hospitalized. I am so sorry that your DD is so sad and depressed. I understand a little how overwhelmed you feel. Take care of yourself Momma, you can get through this with your family together.
 

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I have a 19yo who was very similar to this at this age. If I had it to do all over again I'd...

1) Intervene faster and take it all more seriously. In the interest of attempting to give her space, I let too much go that should have been addressed more professionally up the chain of command, so to speak. So I applaud you for getting her intensive help NOW.

2) Give her the emotional space from YOU that she's trying to create in an unhealthy way. This was another thing I don't think I did as well as I could have. Consider connecting with Big Brother's and Big Sister's of America and getting her a Big Sister as a mentor to connect with and do fun things with. It's ok if she isn't feeling like sharing these things with you, part of rebelling is distancing yourself from the family.

3) As for whether or not she is BPD? Who knows. She could be an angst ridden teen who feels emotions on hyperdrive. She could be genuinely suicidal. She could be genuinely depressed. She could be enjoying wallowing in the depths of despair. There's no way to know until she's an adult. I can tell you that my 19yo is DEFINITELY BPD. The pathological lying was unreal and people who haven't experienced it first hand just do NOT get it.

I'm sorry you are having to go through this mama. You have my thoughts and my support. Please keep posting. MDC kept me sane through so much of this hell. I've got two kiddos who are off the deep end in psych-ville so I know how hard it is.



ETA: Also wanted to share w/you that my 19yo told everyone who would listen that she'd been "having an affair" with my DH (her stepdad) since she was 12 (when we got married). The only thing you can do with that is NOT give it power by acting as if it's a big crisis for her to say that. When we found out we said yeah, doesn't surprise us that she's saying that. In fact, we knew from the outset it was a risk, which is why she and DH have never been alone together. If someone wants to investigate then so be it, false allegations happen and they know that. We had NO way to prove that DH did NOT do this, but in the end it was blatantly obvious she was doing it for attention and to escalate her victimhood status. I wouldn't get too worried about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1littlebit View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by amydidit View Post
We don't really know a lot about this particular friend. She lives a couple of blocks away and they go to school together. She's hung out with her here in the neighborhood before, but that's about it. I definitely wouldn't consider her a confidant.
have they gotten closer recently? she must consider her a close friend since she is sharing all that stuff with her. and they are cutting together... its not something that comes up in casual conversation... not to mention its generally something someone would do alone... esp. since any friend worth having would tell your parents. mine did. is she still hanging out with her other friends? sorry i am prying you don't have to answer at all... its just that at her age i wrote a few letters almost identical to hers and the bolded parts were not true for me either. the lying, cutting, porn, sex etc.were also things i did. though i lied the most.... including (maybe even especially) telling my friend i was doing a bunch of stuff i wasn't & that my parents were doing horribe things that they werent. i wasnt trying to hurt my family i was just to young and to be honest had to sheltered (not in a bad way actually in a good way) to understand the seriousness of my words & actions.
She hasn't even seen that friend in a few weeks. They used to hang out more, but then she just stopped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoretica View Post
I have a 19yo who was very similar to this at this age. If I had it to do all over again I'd...

1) Intervene faster and take it all more seriously. In the interest of attempting to give her space, I let too much go that should have been addressed more professionally up the chain of command, so to speak. So I applaud you for getting her intensive help NOW.

2) Give her the emotional space from YOU that she's trying to create in an unhealthy way. This was another thing I don't think I did as well as I could have. Consider connecting with Big Brother's and Big Sister's of America and getting her a Big Sister as a mentor to connect with and do fun things with. It's ok if she isn't feeling like sharing these things with you, part of rebelling is distancing yourself from the family.

3) As for whether or not she is BPD? Who knows. She could be an angst ridden teen who feels emotions on hyperdrive. She could be genuinely suicidal. She could be genuinely depressed. She could be enjoying wallowing in the depths of despair. There's no way to know until she's an adult. I can tell you that my 19yo is DEFINITELY BPD. The pathological lying was unreal and people who haven't experienced it first hand just do NOT get it.

I'm sorry you are having to go through this mama. You have my thoughts and my support. Please keep posting. MDC kept me sane through so much of this hell. I've got two kiddos who are off the deep end in psych-ville so I know how hard it is.



ETA: Also wanted to share w/you that my 19yo told everyone who would listen that she'd been "having an affair" with my DH (her stepdad) since she was 12 (when we got married). The only thing you can do with that is NOT give it power by acting as if it's a big crisis for her to say that. When we found out we said yeah, doesn't surprise us that she's saying that. In fact, we knew from the outset it was a risk, which is why she and DH have never been alone together. If someone wants to investigate then so be it, false allegations happen and they know that. We had NO way to prove that DH did NOT do this, but in the end it was blatantly obvious she was doing it for attention and to escalate her victimhood status. I wouldn't get too worried about it.
Thank you for all that. Great ideas, and it's so nice to know others have been through these things as well.

Today at the family session I brought up the letter with the case manager. I let her know, again, that I am so worried about her lying. It's been going for years. The case manager talked to her about it. The case manager believes that the letter she wrote is just a part of her fantasy world. She seems to have a hard time realizing where her stories and books end, and real life begins. So right now we're all working on the belief that she is not sexually active, but also doesn't know appropriate actions.
Heck, she was caught passing notes with a 15 yr old boy during a group counseling today. She was talking with this boy she JUST MET about hiding from the staff so they could kiss "and stuff". Ugh ugh ugh.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by amydidit View Post
We don't really know a lot about this particular friend. She lives a couple of blocks away and they go to school together. She's hung out with her here in the neighborhood before, but that's about it. I definitely wouldn't consider her a confidant.

I do love her and I haven't said anything to her about being angry. I've only told her I'm worried and want her to get better. I don't even know if I'm angry though. I'm in shock. I'm worried. I'm overwhelmed. But angry? Trust is gone though... and that's going to be hard to overcome.

I had to pick up DH because there was no way I could handle DD1, DD2, and DD3 all at the ER alone.

Thankfully this program is helping us with referrals for outpatient therapies and groups. We're going to be making big changes here in the house, but I do also have 2 younger children to take care of. And not much support here. I'm not working though thankfully, so I don't have to deal with that too. We're planning on sleeping in the living room when she comes home. There is no way out except through the living room.

I've been trying like crazy to think when any abuse may have occurred if it did. I just can't think of anyone I would suspect. But that doesn't mean much, does it?

: Im so sorry you dont have more support through all of this!


Are you scared of her running away?

I was just asking because in her letter that was an issue to her, that she didnt have any privacy or maybe couldnt trust that your DH wouldn't find aout about everything, maybe?

It sounds like with the quit friendship with this girl and now the note to this guy, that she is really desperate for friends and people to like her, and lonley. Poor thing.

Have you asked her what is going on? Have you talked to her about the cutting and asked ehr why she does it? Have you asked her why she is so sad?

I know my mother would get so aggravated with the situation that alot of times instead of being understanding and supportive, her aggravation over took and everything came accross as anger and disappointment.

I really do hope everything works out. Sometimes those hospitals can be great places for kids. It gives them space away from their families, and someone to listen to them, and a group of peers that can all relate. But i would highly suggest that you look into extended therapy for once she gets out. Find a great person that she is comfortable talking to, and a psychiatrist that can closly monitor any medication she is given.

s:
 

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This is hard for me to read as it seems like yesterday for me...

I was in your daughter's shoes - but my parents never helped me. They ignored what I was doing to myself because they had their own problems (mom's alcoholic/depressed/med abuser). But I destroyed myself and it's taken 7 years to get where I am now - and I'm lucky.

I don't have a ton of expert advice, except that you're doing the right thing with intervention, mama. Help now, even if she doesn't want the help. She will come to know in time that you love her and want what's best for her, and even if the trust may be gone, she needs to feel that unconditional love that you have for her, your baby.

Hugs, hugs, hugs and prayers for your family.
 

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I'm having doubts that this program is going to really work for DD. The CM (case manager) for the session today (different one than before) was talking like DD might be sent home in a couple days. But I don't feel any of her real problems have been addressed. The family sessions are all about getting us to communicate better. Well that's all fine and good, but what about the fact that she has a strong history of lying? What about the fact that even in the sessions she's lying about silly things? What about the fact that she seems to have been living in a fantasy world? (Seriously, we found several notes in DD's handwriting that are supposedly between her and another person. And several notes written to a friend mentioning DD in the third person and signed with a different name, but again in DD's distinctive handwriting.) And it sounds like they haven't addressed the porn and sexual stories and cybering except in passing, like - "You shouldn't be talking about sex with someone you barely/don't even know".

We haven't even been able to talk to the doctor. I just feel like this program wants to hear her say enough times that she won't hurt herself. Not really *help* her. And even though at admission they said they'd get her set up for outpatient stuff, so far there's been no more mention or knowledge of that.

Oh, and today I found out a few things I'm not pleased with.

1. I was called yesterday by a nurse and told DD was being increased to 20mg of Celexa starting today. I gave my permission. Well today she still was given 10mg. I asked about it and was told, oh they decided to wait until tomorrow to increase her. So, if there is a chance they want to release her tomorrow they aren't even going to monitor her on the new dosage???

2. She said she and her roommate pushed their beds together last night. Well considering DD's notes, and stories, etc about sexual encounters I would really think they would put a stop to that. Likely nothing inappropriate was going on, but they can't watch them ALL night.

3. When we were admitting her we were told they could only get incoming calls from parents and grandparents. We asked about outgoing calls and were told it was up to us. We said we absolutely didn't want her making calls because we suspect her friends are part of the problem. Well today she told us she found out they were allowed to make calls and had called her friend J, which is a boy we've told them over and over she has an unhealthy obsession with. I'm furious! After DD went back to her room I went and talked to a nurse who said the calls aren't monitored in any way. She said all they can do is tell DD we won't let her make calls. Well crap. That would kind of be a step back, ya know? She shouldn't have ever been able to make those calls. If it never happened it wouldn't be a concern, but for them to say NOW that we won't let her?

So anyway, yeah. I am having serious concerns about doubts about this program right now. But we're so limited on what we can do. We don't have medicaid yet, or insurance, so we can't even move her anywhere. I want DD to get better and come home. Definitely. But I need to know she IS getting better. I have 2 other kids I have to think about yet. She'd been viewing porn with DD2 in the room. I can't have that. Yes, I'm going to put parental controls on the computer, and likely will reduce her computer time again (only for school probably). But then what will happen? I can't have DD exposed to stuff like that.

ARGH! I feel like my hands are tied. I feel like I'm not getting very good communication from the program. And I just don't know what to do about it.
 
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