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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm mad at this ped, and I'm mad at myself. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: I'm posting this so people can see how careful they need to be, and always check things out for yourself!<br><br>
DS was fully vaxed up to 9 months, nothing since. I got freaked out about the MMR, did some research, got more freaked out and totally overwhelmed, and decided to put off the whole issue until "later". DD has had nothing. She's almost 2, he's 4.<br><br>
So, DH and I decided to get them vaxed for tetanus. My first ped said there was no tetanus-only vax available for kids. We went to another ped recently (who was supposed to be non-vax friendly and was really not) and I told her I was interested in getting the tetanus-only vax. She jumped on it and ordered it while I was there. I got a call from them earlier this week saying the vax was in and I could bring them in any time and get it.<br><br>
I started to get nervous about it and decided to do some more research. I discovered that the TT vaxes (tetanus toxoid) all have thimerosal in them. What an idiot I am for not finding that out before I told them to order it. I thought only flu vaxes had thimerosal in them now. Not only that, but there is only one TT vax that is for kids under 7.<br><br>
So, I called them to find out what vax they got. I explained that I had ordered the TT vax and I wanted to know what the brand name was. The nurse put me on hold, then came back and said, "It's the tetanus-only vaccine."<br><br>
"I know," I said, "can you tell me what the name of it is?" She put me on hold again.<br><br>
"It's called Sanofi," she said. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: "That's the name of the manufacturer," I say. "I'm looking for the name of the vaccine. Like Daptacel or Pediarix, you know?" She put me on hold again. Finally she came back and said it was called T-Tox. I said OK and hung up, even though I wasn't sure that was really the name of it.<br><br>
Turns out that *is* the name of it, there is no brand name, actually. And, it is not for use in kids under 7. They were going to inject my 2 year old and my 4 year old with it. And, I could be wrong about this, but I think you are not supposed to get this vaccine in less than 5 year intervals. They told me I needed to bring my 2 year old to get another shot in two months, then again two months after that.<br><br>
I just can't believe it. Clearly I am incredibly naiive, but I can't believe my ped could be so ill-informed. Do your research, everyone! Do not just trust your doctor!
 

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Good for you for figuring that all out before they got injected! I would LOVE to say I am surprised, but, as is said many times on this forum, the peds I have come into contact with are the LEAST educated on vaccinations. I know way more than they do about the ingredients, side effects, etc.
 

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Good job mama!!!
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/duck.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Duck">: That doc should have ducked and ran....glad to know that there are others who refuse to back down.
 

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Here is a link to the vaccine insert: <a href="http://www.fda.gov/CBER/label/ttoxave092305LB.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.fda.gov/CBER/label/ttoxave092305LB.pdf</a><br><br>
The insert states:<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Tetanus Toxoid Adsorbed manufactured by Aventis Pasteur Inc. is also supplied in a 5 mL vial, which contains the preservative thimerosal [(mercury derivative), (25 μg mercury/dose)].</td>
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Except under circumstances of wound management booster doses of Tetanus Toxoid Adsorbed manufactured by Aventis Pasteur Inc. <b>should not be<br>
administered more frequently than as recommended for Td vaccines (ie, at 11-12 years of age if at least 5 years have elapsed since the last dose of tetanus and diphtheria-toxoid containing vaccine, and every 10 years thereafter).<br>
More frequent booster doses may be associated with increased incidence and severity<br>
of adverse reactions</b></td>
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Bolding mine. The insert also states:<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Tetanus Toxoid Adsorbed manufactured by Aventis Pasteur Inc. <b>is indicated for active immunization of children 7 years of age or older</b>, and adults, for prevention of tetanus.<br><br>
For immunization of infants and children younger than 7 years of age against tetanus and diphtheria, refer to the manufacturers’ package inserts for Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids and Acellular Pertussis Vaccine Adsorbed (DTaP) and for Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids Adsorbed (For Pediatric Use) (DT).</td>
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Yeah I would say your pedi was about to give your kids a major dose of this vaccine.
 

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Wasn't there a low-thimerosal (they'd call it thimerosal-"free" even though it'd still have a trace, just none added as a preservative) version of TT introduced recently (as in, within the last 2 years)? Also for kids 7yrs and up, but no thimerosal as preservative?
 

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are you going to contact the ped and tell him your findings? I always think it's good to scare them a little. I mean, it's by fear that I look into things and read up.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Josette Marie</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8164542"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">are you going to contact the ped and tell him your findings? I always think it's good to scare them a little. I mean, it's by fear that I look into things and read up.</div>
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That is a great suggestion -- I believe I'd write a letter to the Ped and copy the Office Manager. Always good to know what your docs are trying to do!
 

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I would really be surprised if it scared them. Doctors prescribe things off label all the time. I suspect they'd look at the PI for the TT, compare it to the other TT containing pedi products & decide it would be safe to give for the primary series because they both have the same amt of tetanus toxoid. The interval listed on the insert is assuming the product is used only as a booster so I think a doc using it off label for a primary series would follow the intervals just as they would for any other TT containing vaccine given for a primary series.<br><br>
The thimerosal content depends on how they ordered it. Multidose vials have the regular amt but single dose are "trace".
 

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WOW! I am glad to hear you caught it before your babes were injected. Good job doing your homework! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">
 

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I have read few times that tetanus isn’t really dangerous for kids since they have good blood circulation. Also if you make a cut/wound bleed even just a little bit, then tetanus is out of the picture since it can’t survive in oxygen. And even if your kid does get a nasty non-bleeding tetanus-friendly wound, they can always get … (oh, forgot how it’s called, but it’s NOT a vaccine) for that.<br><br>
Remember, most adults has no immunity for tetanus since their shots wore off LONG TIME AGO, but no one is concerned about it…
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">(oh, forgot how it’s called, but it’s NOT a vaccine) for that.<br></td>
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Tetanus Immunoglobulin (TIg)<br><br>
Glad you figured out what was *going* to happen before it did!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>amnesiac</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8165832"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would really be surprised if it scared them. Doctors prescribe things off label all the time. I suspect they'd look at the PI for the TT, compare it to the other TT containing pedi products & decide it would be safe to give for the primary series because they both have the same amt of tetanus toxoid. The interval listed on the insert is assuming the product is used only as a booster so I think a doc using it off label for a primary series would follow the intervals just as they would for any other TT containing vaccine given for a primary series.<br><br>
The thimerosal content depends on how they ordered it. Multidose vials have the regular amt but single dose are "trace".</div>
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So if there's the same amount of TT in TTOX as there is in a DTaP vax, why do they say not to use it in kids under 7? And why do they specifically say not to give it in less than 5 year intervals? They even state that an adverse effect is more likely with closer spacing.<br><br>
Not trying to be dense, just trying to figure out why a ped would not think that was relevant.<br><br>
ETA: I am planning on going down there in person on Monday to look at the vax and the package insert. I want to make sure the info the nurse gave me on the phone is correct. I am going to show the nurse/ped (whoever I get to talk to) the indications on the insert and tell them this is why I'm not going to give the kids this vax. I'm also going to continue my search for a new ped (but I'm not going to tell them that).
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>JandDSquared</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8169158"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Tetanus Immunoglobulin (TIg)</div>
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Exactly! Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
One other thing - if tetanus can't survive in oxygen, how does it survive in soil and on poop? I thought the bleeding was just supposed to flush it out, like a snake bite.
 

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Good for you for doing your own research!<br><br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Yulia_R</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8168232"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I have read few times that tetanus isn’t really dangerous for kids since they have good blood circulation. Also if you make a cut/wound bleed even just a little bit, then tetanus is out of the picture since it can’t survive in oxygen. And even if your kid does get a nasty non-bleeding tetanus-friendly wound, they can always get … (oh, forgot how it’s called, but it’s NOT a vaccine) for that.<br><br>
Remember, most adults has no immunity for tetanus since their shots wore off LONG TIME AGO, but no one is concerned about it…</div>
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I agree! Also be aware of the possible side effects to the Tetanus vaccine - Guillain Barre Syndrome.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>giggleball</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8165345"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">That is a great suggestion -- I believe I'd write a letter to the Ped and copy the Office Manager. Always good to know what your docs are trying to do!</div>
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Absolutely mama!<br><br><br><br>
Good for you and GOOD FOR YOUR BABIES for having a well informed mama that really cares!!!!!!
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>famousmockngbrd</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8169383"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">One other thing - if tetanus can't survive in oxygen, how does it survive in soil and on poop? I thought the bleeding was just supposed to flush it out, like a snake bite.</div>
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Tetanus is not in soil and poop, only tetanus spores. Those spores have to find an oxygen free environment in order to grow. They then produce a toxin and we are highly sensitive to the toxin not to tetanus or spores.<br><br>
Blood contains oxygen and thus the tetanus spores can't grow where there is blood. Children have a very quick and ready blood supply, they bleed easily, that is why it is almost impossible for them to get tetanus. Nature has a way of protecting the young.<br><br>
Most people that die of tetanus are old people especially people who have close contact with horses and often they themselves have diabetes which makes for poor blood circulation.<br><br>
Tetanus is really something you don't have to be concerned about. Not in children. I have never had a tetanus vaccine in all my life and I work in the garden all the time. I am 60 yrs old. and will never get a tetanus vaccine, that's for sure.<br><br><a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=318926" target="_blank"><b>Awesome Tetanus Information</b></a>
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>famousmockngbrd</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8169315"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">So if there's the same amount of TT in TTOX as there is in a DTaP vax, why do they say not to use it in kids under 7? And why do they specifically say not to give it in less than 5 year intervals? They even state that an adverse effect is more likely with closer spacing.<br><br>
Not trying to be dense, just trying to figure out why a ped would not think that was relevant.<br></div>
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Because vaccines are licensed depending on how the clinical trials were done & the PI reflects that - if it's not trialed on little kids then it won't be licensed for use in little kids & the PI will not say to use it for that age group.<br><br>
If you've completed the primary series, then get booster doses closer than every 5 years you are more likely to experience adverse effects. But for your situation you should read the section called "primary immunization" for intervals because that's a completely different thing.<br><br>
Here are the inserts if anyone wants to compare products:<br><a href="http://www.vaccineshoppe.com/secure/?fa=piexpress" target="_blank">http://www.vaccineshoppe.com/secure/?fa=piexpress</a>
 
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