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Is anyone else?<br><br>
Am I the only one that doesn't buy into the women are from venus, men are from mars approach?<br><br>
I am really only just starting to notice how gender obessed the world is. Even here at MDC.<br><br>
Seems like so many discussions talk about how men are like this.. or women are like that.. or how ds is "all boy" and dd is sooo girly..<br><br>
Am I the only one who dislikes this?<br><br>
I mean sure, I accept the premise that there are differences between men and women, both biological and cultural.<br>
But I do not believe these differences DETERMINE our behavior.. nor should they DETERMINE our choices.<br>
(and I am not talking about religion here, so please leave that out.)<br><br>
I think INDIVIDUAL differences and similarities are much more important.. and I just don't care who plays with trucks or who plays with dolls.<br><br>
Nor do I find the "men are like this, women are like that" approach useful in my marriage or my life. I don't want to be judged by anyone else's version of how women are supposed to be.. and I would NEVER judge my husband by what MEN are supposed to do and be. He is a person.. not a gender role.<br><br>
Am I the only one who just doesn't think looking at people through the lens of dualistic gender is very useful or enlightening?
 

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I do think that keeping gender in mind can be helpful when trying to communicate. IMO, women send & recieve more implications with their comments.<br><br>
That said, I do not *excuse* behavior based on gender. I have found many more women unwilling to state what they *actually* want in a given situation, and I'm not going to spend my life trying to decifer it. If SIL says, "Pizzza is fine," I'm going to take her at her word, not try to drill into her head, kwim?<br><br>
I do not like the phrase "all boy." My DSs proclivity towards nail polish makes him NO LESS a boy than his proclivity towards agressive play makes him a boy.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>asherah</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Am I the only one who just doesn't think looking at people through the lens of dualistic gender is very useful or enlightening?</div>
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Nope...I'm right there with you. It's annoying but I can handle it when directed toward myself, I just insult or ignore the person. But it really bugs me when people do this with children.<br><br>
I work with kids & we have a sweet little boy (4 yrs.) who's brought a little well-worn rag doll with him every day for the last month (since he started treatment). On Fri. he didn't have it was was unusually withdrawn, cranky & tearful. His mom says to me that dad "put his foot down" & threw away the doll, "after all, his dad warned him...". This little boy is also autistic and VERY sensitive about his routines. I told the mom I thought that that was cruel...she just looked at me like I was speaking Greek...<br><br>
Allison
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">"after all, his dad warned him...".</td>
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Warned him *what.* If you like something "too much", I'll throw it away. That is just mean.
 

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alli, that's horrible. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
my second child is a girl, and she'll be 1 year next month. people are already saying how "she likes boy toys", like her brother's trains (not sure how a train is a boy toy, but whatever) and her brother's other toys. it is interesting though, she saw a doll once that looked like a real baby and she was way into it. she kept kissing it and talking to it. probably because it looked like another baby to her? because when her grandparents gave her a cloth doll, she had little interest in it.<br><br>
anyway, i'm getting sidetracked...if she naturally likes dolls, then that's fine, of course. but i don't want to push anything on her. and i'm sure many parents don't either...but it seems like every girl i know right now who is ds's age is into the princess thing.<br><br>
i don't know, but this subject is interesting.
 

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I get REALLY tired of hearing how women are nurturing, and men aren't. I hear that alot here, and vehemently disagree with it. Some of the least nurturing people I have ever known have been women.
 

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I'm conflicted about this issue.<br><br>
I'm female. I like acting in many stereotypically female ways. I love skirts and dresses. I like that I can get away with acting an ass more often. :LOL<br><br>
I like gender. But, I don't like it when ppl choose to abuse others and use gender to try and excuse their behavior. I don't like that if my sons wanted to wear flowery shoes or pink and lavendar, some folks would think it's okay to make snide comments. I don't like that Dora the Explorer wear only comes in pink and purple and baby blue (is it not possible for these manufacturers to consider that boys like Dora, too? not just Swiper the sneaky fox or Boots? and that those same boys might not like the colors pink, purple, or baby blue? is that too much to frickin' ask?!).<br><br>
Anyway...I don't like gender issues to be pressed, but I'm not sick of gender. People should feel free to act how they want to act. I'm looking forward to the day one of my sons wants to wear a skirt to play in.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mama ganoush</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I get REALLY tired of hearing who women are nurturing, and men aren't. I hear that alot here, and vehemently disagree with it. Some of the least nurturing people I have ever known have been women.</div>
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co-sign
 

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I hate it too. I myself was always more of a tomboy type and never had an interest in dolls etc. - I was more interested in climbing trees and legos and later model rocketry. My mom wasn't pushy about toys or activities but always made me wear dresses I hated... ah well, water under the bridge right? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"><br><br>
Really I think gender is fluid, it's definitely not a black/white issue and most people have both masculine and feminine characteristics though some do lean heavily towards one end of things (not necessarily the end that corresponds with their physical sex).<br><br>
Fortunately dp is right there with me, so we can present a united front to anyone who'd try to push 'traditional' (whose traditions do they mean, anyhow?!) gender roles on our kid(s). I honestly don't know which way it's going to go with dd, she's still so small... she does enjoy her legos but she also loves to dance. I feel bad for all the kids who do get shoehorned into somebody's idea of 'appropriate' gender roles though. That poor little boy <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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Maybe I don't understand your complaint... But I have always read and seen (ie Nova) that males and females have differently "wired" brains from conception on. Because of this wiring, we receive and process information differently. The way we see the world and how we react to 'threats" is , in a very general way, programmed into us.
 

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Uh, yes and no, Nankay.<br><br>
They do indeed know there are differences in the brains of women and men..<br>
But they do not yet know exactly HOW those differences play out in the real world, and how significant they are.<br><br>
There are enough differences in how gender roles play out across cultures to suggest these neurological differences are NOT deterministic. There are even cultures that recognise more than two genders. GENDER is cultural. SEX is biological. And there is certainly variation, even biologically.<br><br>
Even most scientists will tell you the similarities between men and women far outweigh the differences.<br>
And most will also agree that humans have the capacity to override their "wiring" when it comes to individual choice and cultural construct.<br><br>
So pointing out that there are differences does NOT translate into proscribed gender roles. Not at all.<br>
And that is why I get so sick of being told that the fact that "men and women are wired differently" means men and women have to act certain ways.<br><br>
And, by the way.. there is also variation in how individual brains are wired across genders.<br>
Science has not answered this questions yet, not by a long shot.<br><br>
So I am very very sick of gender dualisms.
 

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One of my friends (a kindergarten teacher) was approached by a set of parents at the beginning of the school year. They were concerned about their son because, in their words "he is obssessed with pink." The little guy just really liked pink, and it really disturbed his parents. They tried to get him to like blue things, but he always chose pink. They asked for the teacher's help to dissuade their son of his "pink obssession" and asked her to not allow him to use pink things. Her response: "uh, we don't do that here. If he wants to use the pink scissors or colour with a pink crayon, I'm not going to stop him from choosing the things he likes. Besides, I don't have time to be worrying about the colours that 22 children are choosing. I'm too busy teaching those 22 children."<br><br>
I do think that often, men and women are different in terms of their demeanors, likes/dislikes, nuturing abilities, etc., but not always. I believe that these differences are culturally induced - they are NOT biologically created. While generalizing about these differences can sometimes be helpful in understanding group behaviours, I think it can be really harmful to apply these generalizations as a rule. Using gender as an excuse to degrade and oppress others is weak and unintelligent.
 

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My dd has all the "girly" stuff, but she also plays with cars! And, she loves to build with blocks, Legos, etc. Then, when ds became old enough to play, his favorite toys have been dd's babydolls and Barbie dolls! And, there is no way I would ever take them away from him! Nor would my husband! I'm truly blessed with well balanced kiddos! -One proud Mom <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love">
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br>
Yep, yep, and yep.<br><br>
We've started reading Beverly Cleary's "Ribsy." One of my FAVORITE authors as a kid! Now, I can NOT believe how many "the boys did this" "girls are like this" statements there are throughout. So troubling to have this at almost EVERY turn in our children's lives.<br><br>
People always say, "oh I treated my boy and girl the same and the boy still chose trucks and the girl chose dolls, so there you go!" There is a WORLD of influence out there, that when you are looking for, you see--much like gender "differences!"
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Maybe I don't understand your complaint... But I have always read and seen (ie Nova) that males and females have differently "wired" brains from conception on. Because of this wiring, we receive and process information differently. The way we see the world and how we react to 'threats" is , in a very general way, programmed into us.</td>
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Yes, and - only half-facetiously - it was once conventional medical wisdom in Europe that our bodies were ruled by the Four Humors. Presumably, one's observations fit this theory, and explained the health problems one observed.<br><br>
Additionally, and as Asherah pointed out, even if one presumes that certain aspects of the female and male brains are indeed "wired differently," do we then simply assume that this therefore translates into different behaviors and perceptions? Perhaps do we assume that it therefore explains gender differences commonly observed in this culture, at least, between men and women?<br><br>
To make this step would likely be akin to saying that, once we have a person's complete genome, we will know exactly what traits and what physical conditions the person will manifest over the course of his/her life, without looking at anything else.
 

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Well I am totally sick of gender stuff too, especially what is deemed appropriate by gender and the association of gender to inanimate objects (like cars). The example that Alison sited makes me sick!<br><br>
This is also partly associated with some peoples issues with sexual identity. Our confusion and misunderstanding of things is clear when we freak out and assume that interest in something that is traditionally seen as the domain of a different gender means that someone might be gay. An education is desperately needed for American society *the only one I have enough experience to speak for*.
 

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Re books, what do you t hink of the Magic Treehouse series? I remember someone complaining the roles were too sexist, but I really see them as reversed and great! The little girl, Annie, is always the leader<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>asherah</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">how ds is "all boy" and dd is sooo girly..<br><br>
Am I the only one who dislikes this?</div>
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I am especially annoyed when this gender issue coincides with the sexual orientation issue--and people expect others to act for or less "masculine" or "feminine" depending on their sexuality. Absolutely no one I know well (male, female, straight, gay, child, or adult) falls neatly into a "feminine" or "masculine" category--individuals are so much more complex than that!<br><br>
I think this is a big reason parents get worked up about the boy-ness or girly-ness of their children. Maybe I am wrong....I hope I am wrong....but that is my gut feeling. They want assurance that their children will not be homosexual <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"><br><br>
I accept that, in our society, some behaviors/attitudes/characteristics are considered "feminine" and others are considered "masculine". Whatever. But having masculine characteristics makes me no less a woman, just like having feminine characteristics makes dh no less a man. As a prev poster said: that just makes up *balanced*! And, individuals instead of stereotypes <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">
 

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Following along. The second paragraph of Crunchymomma's post was something I can relate to.<br><br>
I wonder if any of you would like to discuss how we (as parents) should handle and talk about our children when they really 'fit' or don't 'fit' with the gender roles from our culture ~ or should we do our best to not focus on these issues?<br><br>
I had always imagined that I would raise my child with the most neutral gender roles (how could I have said this better?) but we've headed down a road of rather 'traditional' gender roles (children's).<br><br>
I don't know if there's anything I can or should do about this.
 
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