[mama-a-llama]

My MIL is helping today, and was going to put dd in time out b/c she keeps hurting her little brother. I was explaining that we don't want to impose consequences. She was saying that in real life we get consequences imposed, like speeding tickets, etc. I couldn't think of an answer to that. Why not impose consequences then?

 

[PancakeGoddess]

For me, the answer is that I don't want to be the cops to my kids. I want to be their loving mother, who shows them how to relate on a deeper level than that.<br><br>
eta, I didn't mean to sound flip. I just mean that your MIL gave you the *exact* answer to her own question. Cops are cops, and mamas are mamas. Do we really want to raise children the same way society responds to criminals? Kids have all the time in the world to grow up and experience consequences. Let's send them out there with a firm emotional foundation.

 

[Roar]

I would hope someday my child drives at a safe speed not because he fears punishment but because he values the safety of himself and others.<br><br>
The reason not to hurt your little brother isn't because someone might catch you and punish you. All punishment teaches is be sneakier about hitting him next time.

 

[TripMom]

The concept is that if the consequence is "imposed" - it should be logical - i.e. related to the action that caused the consequence.<br><br>
I suppose that is actually how it happens in real life. If you speed - you get a speeding ticket.<br><br>
Much of this forum is fine with logical consequences and natural consequences -- but a fair amount of posters here are more "consensual" in their approach and would strongly object to that. Doesn't mean its not GD.

 

[irinam]

For me the answer is that in "real life" we encounter many other less than pleasant circumstances:<br><br>
Harsh chemicals, Birth Pain, Cruel people, just to name a few.<br><br>
I am not going to "toughen up" my kids to those realities by intentionally introducing harsh chemicals in their lives, or prepare my DD for future birth pain by introducing physical pain to her, or prepare her for possible future cruelty of people by actually being cruel to her.<br><br>
Why would I "make up" the concequences to prepare her for future concequence-laden life then?

 

[PancakeGoddess]

Actually, the logical consequence to speeding would be somehow related to driving. Paying money doesn't strike me as related to endangering others, and for the wealthy, it's not even much of a consequence at all.<br><br>
Eventually you lose the right to drive, and that seems a lot more logical.

 

[TripMom]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>PancakeGoddess</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Actually, the logical consequence to speeding would be somehow related to driving. Paying money doesn't strike me as related to endangering others, and for the wealthy, it's not even much of a consequence at all.<br><br>
Eventually you lose the right to drive, and that seems a lot more logical.</div>
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Exactly - you eventually lose the right to drive - totally related.

 

[mama-a-llama]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Roar</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would hope someday my child drives at a safe speed not because he fears punishment but because he values the safety of himself and others.<br><br>
The reason not to hurt your little brother isn't because someone might catch you and punish you. All punishment teaches is be sneakier about hitting him next time.</div>
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Thanks for all the responses. After MIL left I was thinking, what do I want to teach dd? The above pretty much sums it up. I want her to learn not to do things for the right reason.

 

[DevaMajka]

Well, our homes are different than "out there." There is more a sense of love and trust and attachment. Imposed consequences do more harm to those than good.<br><br>
(Your kids' life is "real life." hehehe.) Why expose them to less than ideal situations, just in an effort to prepare them for the less than ideal situations they will face in "real life"?

 

[TripMom]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Deva33mommy</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Well, our homes are different than "out there." There is more a sense of love and trust and attachment. Imposed consequences do more harm to those than good.<br><br>
(Your kids' life is "real life." hehehe.) Why expose them to less than ideal situations, just in an effort to prepare them for the less than ideal situations they will face in "real life"?</div>
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Who are you talking to?

 

[Trinitty]

<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/sulkoff.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="tiptoe"><br><br>
But.....<br><br>
Just throwing this out there, I don't have kids yet, but I'm trying to learn prior to having them.<br><br>
Isn't time-out just a simple reminder that hitting one's brother is UNACCEPTABLE? People who hit others will be separated from others in all civilized societies.<br><br>
Yes, it's EXCELLENT that the goal is to teach WHY we should not hit one and other; but doesn't a time out give a moment to think about what has just been done, and WHY the child has been separated from the situation for a period of time?<br><br>
As long as it is explained clearly what the consequences are and why they were imposed in said situation, before and AFTER the time-out how is that ungentle or unnatural?<br><br>
It sounds like it is a period to reflect, calm down, and LEARN from the situation, with guidance.<br><br>
Unnatural would be making the child go and clean the kitty litter box for hitting her brother.... not physically LEAVING the situation and thinking about what she has done.. that seems like a perfectly natural consequence.

 

[DevaMajka]

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<div style="font-style:italic;">Who are you talking to?</div>
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the op.<br>
I tend to reply before reading other replies, because I don't want to be influenced by what everyone else is saying. kwim?<br>
I'm confused though. Did it seem like I was being snarky?<br>
(the "real life" thing was just lol. One of those little things that I think- its ALL "real life" its just not "out there" or "adult life" or whatever)

 

[DevaMajka]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Trinitty</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br>
Isn't time-out just a simple reminder that hitting one's brother is UNACCEPTABLE? People who hit others will be separated from others in all civilized societies.<br><br>
Yes, it's EXCELLENT that the goal is to teach WHY we should not hit one and other; but doesn't a time out give a moment to think about what has just been done, and WHY the child has been separated from the situation for a period of time?<br><br>
As long as it is explained clearly what the consequences are and why they were imposed in said situation, before and AFTER the time-out how is that ungentle or unnatural?<br><br>
It sounds like it is a period to reflect, calm down, and LEARN from the situation, with guidance.</div>
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I'd have to imagine that a child who has been forced into isolation (being angry enough in the first place to hit), the LAST thing they are doing is reflecting, calming down, and learning.<br>
They need to know the acceptable alternatives- "if you are angry, say 'I'm angry'" or "if you need help asking him to move, ask me to help you" and timeouts don't teach that.

 

[captain crunchy]

My question would be, how can someone "make" someone think about what they have "done"? I mean, suppose you put your child in time out, they know they are being a.punished, b.isolated and they *may* feel like you are withdrawing your love (however temporarily) because they have done something *you* didn't like --- I don't see how anyone can *make* someone think about what they did or didn't do.<br><br>
I try to see every interaction as a moment to learn -- sometimes my daughter learns from me, many times I learn from her, about her, about her needs, wants, motivations, reasoning etc... I suppose I see time outs as something that completely shuts down any communication. Also, some people want to have big talks *after* the time out with their children, and well, I don't often want to share my feelings and motivations or reasoning when I've been punished...<br><br>
...but then again, I am one of those nutty consensual livin' folk .... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/Bolt.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bolt">

 

[DevaMajka]

CC, ita. And I'm not "one of those nutty consensual livin' folk"<br>
(quoting you. I don't think your nutty at all <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> )

 

[captain crunchy]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Deva33mommy</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">CC, ita. And I'm not "one of those nutty consensual livin' folk"<br>
(quoting you. I don't think your nutty at all <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> )</div>
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Oh I know, I was kidding of course! Thanks for the compliment though -- <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">

 

[irinam]

Becky, you know, in many of you posts you sound CL... I wonder what are the subtle differences <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
Go check us "the nutty folks" here <a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=493985" target="_blank">http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=493985</a>

 

[DQMama]

I am new to this forum since I could use some serious help w/ ds' behavior lately! I don't spank and I don't believe in yelling but lately I feel like I raise my voice a lot. Every day I swear I will not yell but things are sooo hard right now.<br><br>
My question about this thread is, and it is an honest question, not a challenge to anyone's beliefs about discipline, is, what do you do when your older child is hurting your younger one, if you don't believe in time outs? Do you move the younger one away and talk gently to the older one about how we do not hurt people? And then what if he does it again? And again? At some point don't you have to remove the older one to another location? Not necessarily in a separate room but on the couch or something? You don't have to call it a time out necessarily but, I don't know. My friend's daughter is in Montessori school and they call the "time out" area the "peace table."

 

[Trinitty]

So, there's a difference between "consentual living" and "gentle discipline?"<br><br>
Is there a sticky around here somewhere that defines these two methods?<br><br>
I just get a feeling from reading this forum that I'm a more "firm" potential parent than some here, and I'm trying to find a method I can glean from while I wait to have children.<br><br>
Thanks very much, sorry for the thread drift.

 

[pinkmilk]

I'd like to know the difference between cl and gd too!!!<br><br>
And Trinity...I'm a more "firm" parent too...but I really am trying hard to be gd...I am struggling with it often!!! I believe it is the best way to be...but then when dd pokes ds in the eye and hits him with a block and bites his finger it's time out or I don't know what I'd do<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: .<br><br>
Please don't flame me...I'm honstly just trying my best and if anyone has any words of wisdom then by all means.