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Quote:

Originally Posted by romans_mum View Post
they actually said mega doses had no effect either, it was all over the local news' health watch segment last winter
What kind of megadoses? 5 grams a day? That's still *nothing* compared to what the body needs during an acute illness. All the info I've read says to use vitamin C to bowel tolerance, not to some set number.
 
I did not read the rest of the responses yet, but wanted to address this one:

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Originally Posted by Plummeting View Post
Ugh, they canNOT be serious.

When we were all eating diets of animals grazing the plains and fruits and vegetables grown before the advent of fertilizers and pesticides, we were getting a LOT more folic acid in our diets than we do with our freakin prenatal vitamins.
That may very well be true, but it was in the right proportions to other B vitamins. Also, who knows the source of most folic acid. Even a natural vitamin can be a concoction from a lab. That is actually why I advised my dd s not to take any supplements and no prenatals.

I am not giving credence to the article, but I am not one for taking supplements on a regular basis unless you know exactly that you are lacking and what foods are already fortified with this vitamin.

IMO autism is caused by vaccines. Period.

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Hey, wait till they get to Sodium Ascorbate and reveal what 'increased amounts' of this one causes
Kidney stones?
 
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Originally Posted by HeatherHeather View Post
What I really don't understand is why (amid all this reasearch on x, y and z), no one ever comes out and researches or says that a healthy diet is the best disease preventer there is. Get rid of all the fast food and processed crap and voila, we would all be a ton healthier. It just seems that no one has the wherewithall to state the obvious.
because then the diet industry would lose all its money.........you wouldnt need to buy the south beach diet prepared frozen meals anymore.....etc etc etc

god forbid we let the people know without them researchign it themselves, that eating normally from every food group keeps you healthy!
 
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Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
What kind of megadoses? 5 grams a day? That's still *nothing* compared to what the body needs during an acute illness. All the info I've read says to use vitamin C to bowel tolerance, not to some set number.
yeah, of course the study they did probably didnt contain true megadoses, but in the reports they never said a number. Just that megadoses dont work. so for the less researched out there, they hear that, why put any stock in vit c, it doesnt work anyway!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by minkl View Post
This is not an absurb theory, but touches on the underlying genetics that are at work with methylation genetic mutations that are often present in autistic children. Folic acid in the USUAL form may indeed be in over abundance in autistic children because many have at least one form of MTHFR gene mutation.
If many children with Autism have a problem with MTHFR and folic acid, why bother to mention UBE3A, 'the Angelman's gene', at all? (Unless, by mentioning Angelman's, their aim is to try to convince the reader that Autism is yet another genetic disorder.)

Here's Beaudet's pp presentation on Epigenics and Human Disease:
http://www.childneurologysociety.org...on_Beaudet.pdf

I don't understand most of it, but Slide 65 in particular interested me: "the other candidates". Are these being seriously considered?

If I were a geneticist, I would be looking at the first two potential candidates on the list and the genetic impact of repeatedly injecting heavy metals (and foreign DNA, viruses and such) into pregnant mothers, young babies and children; and then working my way down to number 11 "folate, vitamins and diet".

Quote:

Originally Posted by minkl View Post
But multiple gene mutations, the MTHFR being one of them, do play a part when mixed with excessive heavy metal levels and overstimulation of the immune system.
http://www.uniklinik-freiburg.de/iuk...Autism_NEL.pdf
Joachim Mutter*, Johannes Naumann*, Rainer Schneider*, Harald Walach*& Boyd Haley
Mercury and autism: Accelerating Evidence?

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Taken together, all the above mentioned data from experimental, clinical and partly from epidemiological studies appear to show that repetitive mercury exposure during pregnancy (through thimerosal and dental amalgam), and after birth, through thimerosal containing vaccinations in genetically susceptible individuals is one potential pathogenetic factor in autism.
 
I've read all of the responses and agree that there is likely not one lone cause of autism. However, I have a friend who has a neural tube defect so when she was trying to conceive she took super mega doses of folic acid. She now has 2 autistic children. Interesting link.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
Maybe those big fancy scientists are getting a little mixed up. Anglemen's? Autism? Eh, they both start with the letter "A" so they must be the same thing.



But seriously, the problem IMO is that geneticists are searching for something that doesn't exist - the Autism gene. When "Autism" is nothing more than a label - a description of behaviours.

It reminds me of the time Fragile X (FMR1), was the suspect 'Autism gene'. (1) It just didn't make any sense to me, because so few children with an ASD have Fragile X (2% - 6%), and only a minority of children with Fragile X have an ASD (15 to 20%).

Fragile X is associated with Autism and so is tuberous sclerosis and they are both genetic, but it doesn't follow that the symptoms of Autism in these groups are genetic, or that Autism itself is genetic. I don't see how it can be when hypoxia, measles encephalitis, and herpes encephalitis can cause Autism. Damage to certain areas of the brain in those cases = Autism. Not genes.

According to Dr Rimland 2 out ot 3 children with autism today have the regressive, late-onset type. It bothers me that if regression takes place before the age of 2, the child is said to have Autism, but after the age of 2, they have Childhood Disintegrative Disorder and that appears to be a neurodegenerative disorder.(2) They don't know what causes that either.

What is damaging children's brains?

(1)
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...p?newsid=36355
Chromosome May Harbor Autism Gene, Utah School Of Medicine - Article Date: 20 Jan 2006

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One gene, FXR1, appeared to be a likely candidate for a link to autism. FXR1 is similar to the X-chromosome Fragile X gene, FMR1. Mutations in FMR1 cause Fragile X Syndrome, an inherited condition that can cause mental impairments ranging from learning disabilities to severe cognitive problems. Fragile X syndrome has been shown to overlap with autism, and because FXR1 is similar to the gene that causes the syndrome, U researchers suspected FXR1 might be linked to autism. But after analyzing the entire coding sequence of FXR1, the researchers found no alterations in the gene likely to contribute to autism.

Based on statistical evidence, they're now looking at other genes. But evidence that a gene on a particular region of chromosome 3 is linked to the disorder doesn't preclude other genes from being a cause of autism, according to ****. All in all, the researchers have a daunting search ahead of them.

"We're just looking for the needle in the haystack," **** said.
I think they're wasting their time.

(2)
http://pediatricneurology.com/aspergers.pdf
Autistic Spectrum Disorders: Sorting It Out
Martin L. Kutscher, MD
Departments of Pediatrics and Neurology, New York Medical College, Valhalla, NY.
Pediatric Neurological Associates, White Plains, NY.

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Childhood Disintegrative Disorder
Neurologists are scratching their head on this one, and assume psychiatrists mean neurodegenerative disorders.
 
http://asmonline.org/dec04news/autismneurology.htm

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The hypothesis may be testable in several ways. On a cellular level, brain tissue from subjects with autism could be examined to see if the Angelman gene regulatory regions are highly methylated. Valproic acid administration to pregnant animals in susceptible animal species results in behavioral deficits in the offspring which in some ways mimic the behaviors seen in autism. One could alter dietary folic acid to see if that resulted in a reduced expression of the abnormal behaviors in the offspring.
I don't understand what this sentence is doing there. Taking Valproic Acid during pregnancy is associated with Autism because, like Thalidomide, it is a teratogen.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook/0309070864/html/84.html

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In 1994, it was discovered that exposure of the closing neural tube of the human embryo to thalidomide, a well-known teratogen, could produce autism at a high rate (Strömland et al. 1994). Valproic acid (Christianson et al. 1994) and ethanol (Nanson 1992) have also been implicated as teratogens that increase the risk of autism.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
Teratogen update: valproic acid. - Lammer EJ, Sever LE, Oakley GP Jr.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherlock007 View Post
http://asmonline.org/dec04news/autismneurology.htm

I don't understand what this sentence is doing there. Taking Valproic Acid during pregnancy is associated with Autism because, like Thalidomide, it is a teratogen.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook/0309070864/html/84.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
Teratogen update: valproic acid. - Lammer EJ, Sever LE, Oakley GP Jr.
Valproic acid is mentioned because it is a known teratogen whose behavioral effects on offspring have been observed in animals. It is mentioned in order to suggest how the effects of folic acid could be similarly studied in animals. Look at the sentence after the one you bolded.
 
The original article that I posted said that too much folic acid might be causing autism.

Valproic acid in pregnancy is a teratogen that causes many defects, but also exhibits some autistic trait.

How on earth are they going to study folic acid in relation to that? BECAUSE in order to prevent neural defects you have to INCREASE folic acid if the mother isn't getting enough.

On the basis of the original article, autism is alleged to be linked with too much folic acid. So how can you increase folic acid with Valproic acid and get anywhere? And if you reduce it, then the mother may well have more damage on her hands.
 
Only 10% of women questioned in USA an 2002 took folic acid, up from 2% in 1995.

If 2% took it 1995, the number would have been even fewer in 1990, when the autism started. Since the first major article about folic acid preventing neural defects was about 1991, and they didn't start yammering about it until the late 90's, very few mothers, apart from weirdos like me, would have known about folic acid, or taken it in the 80's.

So tell me. When did the autism increase start rampaging upwards?

How would that fit in with public policy about folic acid and neural defects?

I took it for both my pregnancies in 1981 and 1983, and my doctor called me a looney bin. I took 5 mgs every 3 days, which is supposedly an overdose... and neither of my kids have autism.

The autism epidemic was really noted in the early 90's and therefore in my opinion, autism has nothing to do with folic acid, since even today, the majority of pregnant women don't take it.

How many women here, took folic acid when they were pregnant?

To me, this is clutching at straws.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara View Post
How many women here, took folic acid when they were pregnant?
Isn't it part of pregnancy vitamin supplements? I remember it was in ours ages ago. Hang on... checking how much was in whatever concoction I took... 300 mcg, and recommended dose is 1-2 a day. Not a lot, but it was there.
 
Only was put in prenatals here about three years ago. But most pregnant women here, don't take prenatals.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara View Post
Only was put in prenatals here about three years ago. But most pregnant women here, don't take prenatals.
Wow. Why do you think, that is? I mean, both? Our ladies are religious about taking prenatals, it is a huge business these days, but even in the 'hungry' years of late 80-s everyone was taking the only thing available. And folic acid was known to be necessary to avoid things like spina bifida as long as I can remember, without much details, of course, just a vague understanding. I wonder what it's like in the States?
 
Because the doctors here still maintain that you can get everything you need from a "normal" diet. And women believe that. And some women consider MacDonalds and coca-cola a normal diet.

A lot of new mothers here are also totally clueless.

Example. A plunket nurse told a mother to give her baby stewed apple to stop diarrhoea and the mother was going round all the shops to buy an apple pie, because she didn't know how to make stewed apple. It just so happened there were none that day. She was in tears. I had to write out for her, how to make stewed apple. It turned out her parents didn't cook. They just bought everything.

This mother's cooking extended to baked beans on toast.
 
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The autism epidemic was really noted in the early 90's and therefore in my opinion, autism has nothing to do with folic acid, since even today, the majority of pregnant women don't take it.

How many women here, took folic acid when they were pregnant?
I tryed.....but I'm not good with remembering to take a pill every day......my prenatals made me sick, so I changed to kids gummie vitamins.
 
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Originally Posted by Spy View Post
Wow. Why do you think, that is? I mean, both? Our ladies are religious about taking prenatals, it is a huge business these days, but even in the 'hungry' years of late 80-s everyone was taking the only thing available. And folic acid was known to be necessary to avoid things like spina bifida as long as I can remember, without much details, of course, just a vague understanding. I wonder what it's like in the States?
alot of us pregnant women just dont like swallowing horse pills that make you want to vomit again....and then make you constipated.

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This mother's cooking extended to baked beans on toast.
mm now your just making me hungry
 
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Originally Posted by Nora'sMama View Post
Valproic acid is mentioned because it is a known teratogen whose behavioral effects on offspring have been observed in animals. It is mentioned in order to suggest how the effects of folic acid could be similarly studied in animals. Look at the sentence after the one you bolded.
Thanks, Nora'sMama. That's how I read it. And it doesn't make sense. How can folic acid - a form of water-soluble B vitamin found in leafy vegetables - be studied in the same way as Valproic Acid - a chemical compound used as an anticonvulsant and mood-stabilizing drug - and a known teratogen, when at this point, they don't know if taking folic acid during pregnancy causes abnormal behaviours in offspring? Why didn't they just say that they're going to study folic acid in pregnant animals to see what effect, if any, it has on the behaviour of offspring?

But now, having read MT's post, her take on it seems far more likely. But it still doesn't make any sense for the reasons she gives.

The vast majority of children with autism don't have any physical defects and they don't have additional diagnoses, such as Fragile X. Autism is diagnosed on behaviour alone, so it's not surprising that some children with various genetic and birth defects have the behavioural symptoms of "Autism".

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...r/a682412.html

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Before taking valproic acid, tell your doctor if you are pregnant or planning to become pregnant. If you become pregnant while taking valproic acid, call your doctor. Valproic acid can cause birth defects in the fetus. Talk to your doctor about the risk of taking valproic acid during pregnancy.
 
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