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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can someone help me locate these results? I can't find it. I've emailed the university several times with no response.<br><br><br><a href="http://www.slu.edu/publications/nb/new/012100.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.slu.edu/publications/nb/new/012100.shtml</a><br><br><b>Jan. 21, 1998</b><br><br>
Infants Needed for High-Pitched Crying Study<br>
Saint Louis University researchers examine relationship of crying to vaccine shots<br><br>
ST. LOUIS---Researchers at Saint Louis University School of Medicine are seeking up to 50 infants for a vaccination study to examine crying.<br><br>
The purpose of the research project is to learn more about infant crying after routine vaccination to determine if episodes of unusual crying occur. In earlier studies, some unusual crying has been noted after routine vaccinations were given all at one visit.<br><br>
Infants six to seven weeks of age will be enrolled and vaccinated by the Center for Vaccine Development at Saint Louis University School of Medicine. Some of the infants will receive vaccinations of HIB and Hepatitis B in two separate injections while another group will receive a combination vaccine of HIB and Hepatitis B, known as Comvax, and a second shot with a placebo (the same liquid used for the vaccine but no active ingredients).<br><br>
All children will receive a $50 gift certificate for Toys R Us at visits one and three, and a check for $50 at visits two and four. To enroll your child or to learn more information about the study, please call the Center for Vaccine Development at (314) 577-8649.
 

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oh GAG ME!!!<br><br>
Here have some money and stuff so we can inject crap into your kid.<br><br>
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/soapbox.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="soapbox"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hammer.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hammer"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banghead.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banghead"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/Cuss.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="cuss"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/censored.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="censored"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hopmad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hopping mad"> :puke
 

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I'm really curious to hear the results, too.<br>
I bet if someone here emailed them with the right kind of email address they'd respond. (media email address, primarily, is what I'm thinking of.)
 

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Oct 26, 2005, 9:54 PM (PDT)<br><br><a href="http:" target="_blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm......act&list_ui...692&query_hl=2</a><br><br>
I posted this at another site but I don't have full access to the study.
 

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Majormom, you copied and pasted the link without expanding it, and it doesn't work. I'd be interested in seeing it.
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bigeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bigeyes"> I'm interested in seeing the results, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Majormom</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Oct 26, 2005, 9:54 PM (PDT)<br><br><a href="http:" target="_blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm......act&list_ui...692&query_hl=2</a><br><br>
I posted this at another site but I don't have full access to the study.</div>
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Majormom - thanks so much. I saw your response to my thread on the other board. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
I'm wondering if this is the same study. The results of the study you posted are from 2002.
 

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And what is the betting that the groups will be the same anyway, since they are injecting the same amount of crap and toxins into both groups? There really is little difference...
 

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holy crap!<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"> SORRY! Hope this one works. It of course is just the abstract but maybe someone has access to the full study.<br><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12450692&itool=iconabstr&query_hl=2" target="_blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...str&query_hl=2</a>
 

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Did anyone else find the study misleading? It only looks at combination vaccination vs. separate component vaccination. There's no negative control. The conclusion that there is no unusual or prolonged crying between the two groups doesn't tell you much (IMO). The authors are claiming their study shows that whatever crying occurs is 'normal' but since they don't have a negative control you could equally make the case that <i>both</i> groups experienced abnormally high rates of high-pitched and prolonged crying. You might think that the vaccinated kid in group 1 who is screaming his head off indicates an adverse vaccine reaction, but the researcher will tell you no, see that kid over there in group 2 is also screaming his head off so it's normal. By neglecting to include a negative control the researchers are neglecting the possibility that <i>both</i> kids are experiencing an adverse vaccine reaction. If you look at the numbers, the study showed that about 5% of kids in both groups had unusually high-pitched screaming after vaccination. Why is that acceptable? Just because combination vaxed kids suffered the same rate of adverse reactions as the monovalently vaxed kids does not make those adverse reactions normal. There should have been a negative control, a third group who received injections of placebo only. Instead of determining that combination vaxes are as safe as monovalents, the authors should have concluded that the significant rate of abnormal screaming observed in both vaccinated groups is a cause for concern and that further study should be performed to determine the health consequences of this particular adverse reaction. Of course that's JMO.
 

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I guess I don't follow - or maybe I do...??<br><br>
So they injected both groups of babes with the same ingredients in similar amounts but sorted into the 2 needles slightly differently?? The "control" was a dud injection of just the inactive ingredients?<br><br>
They aren't even trying to seem sound in their study construction.
 

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Nope, other than to say that the combination vax is no more dangerous than the seperate ones. Shame they don't compare to no vax at all eh?
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Shame they don't compare to no vax at all eh?</td>
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Yeah, of course! But they didn't even inject <b>less</b> crap into the experiment group. They made up the difference by using a dud shot with toxins! If it was a double-blind (yeah, right!) then why not use saline for the second shot? At least that would test the difference in amount of preservatives, etc...
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jojospok23</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Shame they don't compare to no vax at all eh?</div>
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THEY say that would be unethical <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes"> but apparently, injecting babies with this crap to see how much they cry isn't <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hopmad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hopping mad"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/censored.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="censored">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>LongIsland</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm curious to know if there are any similar studies conducted using DTaP.</div>
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I was wondering the same thing.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Majormom</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">THEY say that would be unethical <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes"> but apparently, injecting babies with this crap to see how much they cry isn't <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hopmad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hopping mad"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/censored.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="censored"></div>
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Hey, lets pinch-see if that makes them cry? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"> These guys need to get their heads read <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bouncy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bouncy"><br><br>
Ya know, I am so glad I found this place <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/heartbeat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="heartbeat">
 
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