[trmpetplaya]

I'm expecting my first child in November and have researched a bit on EC and am totally sold on the idea! I tell everyone about it and not one person hasn't been supportive. Our next-door neighbor's mother however has heard about the early toilet training of the 1930s so she thinks THAT's what we're going to do... our friend - her ds - tried to tell her about EC which I guess was a mistake. I know virtually nothing about the 30s thing and couldn't seem to find anything about it on Google (and I work full-time so researching time is somewhat limited...). Are there any good links on it? I would like to go into a discussion with her as informed as I can about what she HAS heard. All I've been able to find about the 30s practice are a couple little blurbs about strapping babies to potties (which I know has nothing to do with EC, but she doesn't, yet...), but that's it.

Any info regarding the abusive history of some types of early potty training would be so helpful and I would definitely appreciate it

love and peace.

 

[Laurie Boucke]

It wasn't always abusive. It was more parent-oriented, in that babies were often pottied based on adult timing. Some used suppositories to get their babies to poo. Some were strict and punsihed their kids for accidents. When potty chairs with belts were invented, some parents strapped their kids onto the potty until they performed. There is a whole chapter on the history of potty training and ec in my book Infant Potty Training (hope it's okay to mention the title here).

In any case, all of the above negative behaviors are NOT a part of ec, so there you have the difference.

Laurie

 

[lucymay6]

I have run into this, too. People think I'm abusing my child because we are doing "early potty training".

 

[Liliana]

Sometimes, if you are talking to someone who is very negative about EC, it can be good to emphasize the "parent training" point of view. You aren't potty training because of course it's not the baby's job to get to the potty. "I just hold her over the potty during diaper changes to keep from getting peed on" (or keep poop off the walls, but people don't always believe us when we say that this happened). Perhaps emphasize that the child won't be using a toilet independently until 2 or 3 anyway, so it's not a high pressure thing.

 

[Laurie Boucke]

Good points. And in some situations, especially with people you are visiting and don't know very well, you can be discrete by saying you're going to change your baby and then ec the baby in the bathroom in privacy

Laurie

 

[lucymay6]

yeah, I do that alot, but the lactivist in me wants to convince the world that EC is the way to go!!

 

[KittyKat]

Lucymay, I SO hear you! I guess that's part of why I like to tell people about EC. I've got lactivist in my genes.

My mom used to tell me she'd NIP because breasts are tools for feeding babies, and she wouldn't apologize for using them for their intended purpose. Not that she was immodest, not at all she was discreet, just an unabashed breastfeeder, whenever, wherever.

So... now I'm a lactivist "Militant Breastfeeding Cult" mom and a "Baby Butt Liberation Front" EC momma. LOL!

On the OP:
Maybe you could emphasize that it's the way they deal with elimination in Africa, South America, Asia... and that it's responsive, not coercive.

Kathryn

 

[lucymay6]

Now that I've thought about it, what I've said to these people is; while there was once a damging practice of early potty training that involved sticking soap up baby's butts and strapping them to potties, that is certainly not what I'm doing. That EC is more teaching than training. That, IMO it is actually more gentle and responsible than teaching a baby that it's OK to crap in their pants and then trying to teach them the opposite, 3 years later. It's nothing more than taking the time to show them the right way, the first time

 

[Charles Baudelaire]

The basic source for abusive potty training of the 30s is a parenting manual called Our Babies, by Dr. Herman Bundesen. It was put out through health services in Chicago, so you can imagine it reached a great many people.

Along with an obsession with rickets that I can only think was caused by the fact that there is NO SUN in Chicago, the guy has an obsession with enemas and poo. He recommends giving an enema or a soap suppository if the baby doesn't poop regularly.

He advocates starting potty training at....

are you ready?

TWO MONTHS OLD. "Before the mother begins the 10:00 morning nursing, she should place the pot, a roll of toilet paper, a soap stick, a towel, and a glass of hot water (to wet the soap stick) upon the table within easy reach....If after several minutes [on the pot], the bowel movement does not take place...the soap stick should be inserted and held into place until the bowels begin to move, but not longer than ten minutes....If this is kept up for three or four days, the baby usually will have learned to have regular bowel movements at the end of this time without the use of the soap stick."

Thought you'd like to know.

 

[Ms.Doula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire "Before the mother begins the 10:00 morning nursing, she should place the pot, a roll of toilet paper, a soap stick, a towel, and a glass of hot water (to wet the soap stick) upon the table within easy reach....If after several minutes [on the pot], the bowel movement does not take place...the soap stick should be inserted and held into place until the bowels begin to move, but not longer than ten minutes....If this is kept up for three or four days, the baby usually will have learned to have regular bowel movements at the end of this time without the use of the soap stick."

What a sick freak!!!

 

[krisbeany]

I've seen footage *recently* of babies straped to potties in the then Russia. Anybody see those too? When the story pertains to adoptions from ophanages.

 

[lucymay6]

no but I think I read in mothering a story of a woman BFing a girl adopted from china who had been subjected to this sort of abuse, strapped to a poiiy chair for hours at a time. horrible.

 

[heldt123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire TWO MONTHS OLD. "Before the mother begins the 10:00 morning nursing, she should place the pot, a roll of toilet paper, a soap stick, a towel, and a glass of hot water (to wet the soap stick) upon the table within easy reach....If after several minutes [on the pot], the bowel movement does not take place...the soap stick should be inserted and held into place until the bowels begin to move, but not longer than ten minutes....If this is kept up for three or four days, the baby usually will have learned to have regular bowel movements at the end of this time without the use of the soap stick." Thought you'd like to know.

I know what I'd like to stick up his butt!

 

[Ms.Doula]

Quote:

"Before the mother begins the 10:00 morning nursing,"

and this! thats right I forget EVERY BABY had a 10:00 nursing!!! They were all microscheduled!

:

 

[USAmma]

I *remember* being held down by my grandma and mom and having a sliver of soap stuck up my rear-end. I was probably 2-3 years old and my family was attempting to potty train me. It was traumatic to say the least. Between that and my dad spanking me for every accident, it was no wonder that I used to poop behind the bushes in our apartment complex rather than at home.

 

[Ms.Doula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by USAmma I *remember* being held down by my grandma and mom and having a sliver of soap stuck up my rear-end. I was probably 2-3 years old and my family was attempting to potty train me. It was traumatic to say the least. Between that and my dad spanking me for every accident, it was no wonder that I used to poop behind the bushes in our apartment complex rather than at home.

Oh USAmma, so sorry you remember that.

how horrible.
Its amazing the 'mistakes' people make

 

[trmpetplaya]

Wow. No wonder she thinks EC is terrible! Had I been the one to tell her about it I would have stressed all the good points (everything) and made sure that she didn't associate it with the practices of the 30s. I told my mother about EC about three or so days after I started researching it and she told me that she wishes she'd known about it when she had babies

I'll be ordering the book sometime soon (probably both that I've heard of because I'm quite the bookworm), but finances are sketchy right now since dh is starting a business. Definitely before the baby comes though!

Thank you for your help!

:

love and peace.

 

[lucymay6]

OMG USAmma I am so sorry you went through that.

 

[fremontmama]

I second that!

I am so sorry USAmma that happened to you! I guess in the back of my mind I pictured "early potty training" to be a little strict, but I never imagined it to be quite so horrible. And I think of ec'ing as being so gentle, it never even occurs to me that people might associate it with this old-fashioned idea of early potty training. Boy, that makes me want to cry! and also be sure that all those I am touting the joys of ec'ing to understand that it is soooooooo different.

 

[USAmma]

Thanks for the sympathy. I really am glad that things are different today. I'm sure my mom was doing what my grandma advised her to . . she was only 19 when she had me. She PT my half-sibs much gentler than that, the way it's typically done these days.

My grandma (my dad's mom, not my soap-shoving mom's mom) raised kids in the early 60's and she was also very gentle about it. She did PT them early but she's just such a gentle person, and she mostly just held them over the toilet and ran water until they went.

I EC'd Abi and part of the reason I backed off so much with her after she was not wanting to anymore was my own childhood experience. I did use the modern methods of stickers, coaxing, etc, but she still didn't PT until 3.8 years old. With Nitara I'm just going to let her train herself.

I hope that you EC mamas can spread the word that there is a better way and it's not at all about suppositories and forcing anything on anyone. I posted some EC pics on my website and Abi looks pretty happy.

Feel free to share those if you want. www.darshani.com