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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am very new here, but have been talking with so many people about what I've learned about circ from reading all of the info. on MDC. It's been about the only thing that has helped me to deal with the anguish of knowing what I put my two sons through...<br><br>
So, tonight I was talking with a couple of nurses I work with about circ. They were just adamant about the necessity of it- their primary argument was to prevent infection. A guy I work with walked in to the room, and I just blurted out "so, what do you think about circumcision?". He said that he thought infant boys should be circed, and in the next sentence said he himself is intact. I was stunned for a second, but then started asking him questions and realized he didn't know much more about male anatomy than my circed DH (which is pretty minimal knowledge). I'd like to give him some info. since he plans on having more kids (only has a girl so far) and says he would definitely circ them- "it's what you're supposed to do". What info. would be most appropriate for an intact guy??
 

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Ok, sorry but how illogical!<br><br>
If circing is so important why doesn't he get CUT?! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:
 

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You could give him the links for how the foreskin works along with what all is lost when the foreskin is gone. It is beyond me how he could know that info and take away from his sons what he himself was blessed to keep.<br><br>
I would tell him also that if he is so unhappy being intact he should go get cut. At least he can take pain pills and wont have to sit around in urine and crap all day till it heals <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:
 

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I'm sorry but intact men who advocate circ really grind my gears.<br><br>
What kind of bullish is that? If you're gonna talk the talk, you better walk the walk!<br><br>
If circ is so great, why haven't you gotten cut?<br><br>
That's like someone advocating everyone become vegetarian but he still likes to eat meat.<br><br>
3kids, when he said he was intact and pro-circ you should've asked him "How many infections did you have?"
 

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As long as he was telling the truth.<br><br>
If he's intact and doesn't know how his foreskin works, I think that's rather suspicious really. There's plenty of men walking around the US think they're intact and they're not.<br><br>
It's also possible that he's intact and has been subjected to rigorous cleaning regimes that have left things sore and irritated.<br><br>
You need to find out WHY he doesn't like it, and also why, if he doesn't like it, he doesn't go get it removed - it can be done as an outpatients procedure under a local, (if what a pro-circ poster on another board said is true - and they're going to do it in Africa so there's no reason why it couldn't be). At least he has the <i>choice</i>, it will be interesting to hear what he will say to his sons when they grow up and ask him why he did it, when he didn't have it done himself.
 

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Just because one is intact doesn't mean they know everything WE know about intact penises! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br><br>
Still, this guy sounds like he is buying the cultural folkways just like everybody else. Maybe he thinks he's "too old". At least DBF would NEVER think of letting someone cut bits off him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm sure he was being honest. I've worked with the guy for awhile (I was actually pretty comfortable getting into this conversation) and I was asking him- don't you appreciate your foreskin? He said he feels the skin "gets in the way". I responded, "but that's the most sensitive part, right?" He said no, on him the glans is, and I told him that that's because it's been covered and protected his whole life. I told him what happens to the head of the penis once it's been exposed day in and day out to clothing, etc. and you could actually see him thinking about it. I think he's just so caught up in what many in our culture promote... that it's somehow "better" to be circumcised. He has had no infections that he mentioned, and when I asked him if he'd get the surgery done as an adult he said he had heard it was really painful to get it done later in life and was better to have done in infancy. You know, the more I talk with people, the more I sadly find out that they accept infant circumcision as a completely rational and normal thing to do... which I completely understand because that was me five years ago. I think I can change this guys mind about what he's going to do to his future sons if I just print out some information... just wondered which info. I should focus on.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Daisyuk</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8124821"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">There's plenty of men walking around the US think they're intact and they're not.</div>
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Seriously? How can that be? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:<br><br>
(or is my sleep-deprived brain getting this wrong?)
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Papai</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8122966"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm sorry but intact men who advocate circ really grind my gears.<br><br>
What kind of bullish is that? If you're gonna talk the talk, you better walk the walk!<br><br>
If circ is so great, why haven't you gotten cut?<br><br>
That's like someone advocating everyone become vegetarian but he still likes to eat meat.<br><br>
3kids, when he said he was intact and pro-circ you should've asked him "How many infections did you have?"</div>
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<br><br>
WELL SAID.<br><br>
Its even better when their partners say "oh he wishes he was circ'd..." and then you ask them why and they dont know either.....<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:
 

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First, show him the sensitivity and adult circumcision satisfaction studies.<br><br><a href="http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06685.x" target="_blank">http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...X.2006.06685.x</a><br><a href="http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06646.x" target="_blank">http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...X.2006.06646.x</a><br><br>
Then mention the MRSA risk:<br><br><a href="http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/ucp/WebIntegrationServlet?call=ContentWeblet&url=http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/ICHE/journal/issues/v28n4/2006109/2006109.html?erFrom=5901115265917548013Guest&current_page=content" target="_blank">http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/ucp...t_page=content</a><br><br>
Then mention the 10% risk of Meatal Stenosis.<br><br><a href="http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2356.htm" target="_blank">http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2356.htm</a><br><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16429216" target="_blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=16429216</a><br><br>
You'll have to figure out exactly what he thinks is "better" about being circ'd...
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>3kidsclmr</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8125180"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm sure he was being honest. I've worked with the guy for awhile (I was actually pretty comfortable getting into this conversation) and I was asking him- don't you appreciate your foreskin? He said he feels the skin "gets in the way". I responded, "but that's the most sensitive part, right?" He said no, on him the glans is, and I told him that that's because it's been covered and protected his whole life. I told him what happens to the head of the penis once it's been exposed day in and day out to clothing, etc. and you could actually see him thinking about it. I think he's just so caught up in what many in our culture promote... that it's somehow "better" to be circumcised. He has had no infections that he mentioned, and when I asked him if he'd get the surgery done as an adult he said he had heard it was really painful to get it done later in life and was better to have done in infancy. You know, the more I talk with people, the more I sadly find out that they accept infant circumcision as a completely rational and normal thing to do... which I completely understand because that was me five years ago. I think I can change this guys mind about what he's going to do to his future sons if I just print out some information... just wondered which info. I should focus on.</div>
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Pro-circ people trip me up with this. I thought the foreskin was a pointless, useless, disposable thing that men "don't really need", or "is not a big deal to cut off". If it HURTS in adulthood, what the hell makes him think that it wouldn't hurt for an infant? Especially with no anesthesia?!<br><br>
When he said he had no infections, what did your nurse friends say? Right in front of them was an example of an intact man with no infections so doesn't that refute their theory?<br><br>
This is really sad, this man has no idea what he has. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>3kidsclmr</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8125180"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">when I asked him if he'd get the surgery done as an adult he said he had heard it was really painful to get it done later in life and was better to have done in infancy.</div>
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The old "infants don't feel pain" chestnut. Can you show him the video? Put it on a DVD for him to watch when he's not at work? What about the Penn & Teller episode? Is he the kind of guy who'd appreciate that?
 

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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>paquerette</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8127448"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The old "infants don't feel pain" chestnut. Can you show him the video? Put it on a DVD for him to watch when he's not at work? What about the Penn & Teller episode? Is he the kind of guy who'd appreciate that?</div>
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A CNN article on the subject of infant pain during circumcision is here:<br><br><a href="http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9712/23/circumcision.anesthetic/" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9712/23/ci...on.anesthetic/</a>
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">When he said he had no infections, what did your nurse friends say? Right in front of them was an example of an intact man with no infections so doesn't that refute their theory?</td>
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Unfortunately, not. The nurses I work with claim to have seen several intact men with severe infections during the course of their work, so nothing seems to sway them. Each one has a horror story they repeat and repeat. And they all have older kids who are of course all circed. The only thing that seemed to surprise them was how the circ rate in the US is dropping - they all thought it was still up near 90%. I'm trying to focus more on the people who haven't had kids yet... they seem a little more receptive to me.<br><br>
Thanks for the links. I'm going to print everything out for him. I guess I just assumed an intact guy would appreciate having been left whole, and really didn't know how to respond to him. I'm going to mention the Penn and Teller show to him- he'd probably relate really well to that. Thanks! Nicole
 

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Hey Nicole - I think what you are doing is great! Circ is just so accepted in many parts of the States, that I don't think it's surprising that an intact guy in the States would have no clue about what he'd been lucky to keep.<br><br>
And peer pressure is a big thing...even for adults (see all the adults who cut their newborn babies 'because it's what you do' - which just means 'because everyone else is doing it, so it must be OK' <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> ).<br><br>
You are on the right track - a little bit of education on this subject often goes a loooonnngg way, and you've gotten some great links. The Penn and Teller Bullsh*t episode is very good, as is the 'Men's Health' article on circumcision:<br><br><a href="http://www.noharmm.org/separated.htm" target="_blank">http://www.noharmm.org/separated.htm</a><br><br>
Good luck and thanks so much for educating people about this topic! It's so important for all those not yet born little boys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Circ is just so accepted in many parts of the States, that I don't think it's surprising that an intact guy in the States would have no clue about what he'd been lucky to keep.</td>
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I think you're absolutely right.<br><br>
And thanks for the encouragement! I am so angry that this practice is still legal. I can't even describe how I felt when I discovered the truth about circumcision after putting two of my kids through it. But the guilt was destroying me. Now, I just talk about it to everyone I know, and hope that I can at least encourage people not to blindly accept it as a "normal" thing to do. The Mens Health article was great- I'm going to copy it and pass it around !!<br><br>
Nicole
 

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Nicole - I'm so sorry for your little boys and for you. It's the medical profession's JOB to fully inform parents about an unnecessary, cosmetic surgery that they are recommending - but they don't. It infuriates me...and is so very unfair to both the little boys and parents affected (see the 'regretful mother' thread - you are not alone).<br><br>
Some of the very best advocates for little boys are regretful parents - you can make a huge difference in so many lives - thanks so much for being willing to do that!
 
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