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Discussion Starter #1
I would like to print out information to keep in my car in case I ever have to take my unvaccinated child to the ER...I am sure it will happen someday.<br><br>
I know in the heat of the moment, I will be upset about whatever is wrong with my son and flustered with dealing with doctor's and nurses who disapprove of my sons vaccination status. Also my husband won't be very supportive because he will want to vaccinate if the doc says that is what I need to do.<br><br>
I live in Texas. So I would love a print out of the laws in Texas regarding vaccination if anyone knows where to find them.<br><br>
Also I would like print outs for different treatments and good info as to why I don't vaccinate.<br><br>
Thank you!
 

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Honestly I think that would be a collassal waste of your energy.<br><br>
First of all if you child is seen in the ER for something unrelated to vax status (ie a fall or broken limb) you do not need to share that they are unvaxed. It is irrelevant. I have been to the ER once for DS when he fell out of a shopping cart on his head. When asked about vaccines (which made me laugh that they would even ask about that given the nature of the visit), I said he was up to date. Not worth the risk of a hassle.<br><br>
If you do choose to share, if you present printouts of all the reasons you don't vax, I would imagine all you will do is irritate them. The ER is fast paced. They are interested in diagnosing the problem as quickly as possible. They are not going to sit down and read what you have taken the trouble and time to print out. The easiest response is to state you don't vaccinate for religious reason and leave it at that. JMHO <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
As for printing out tx law. Is your child in school? If so again you would just state you don't vax for religious reasons (in whoch case you have an exemption and could show them a copy if you wanted to). If not, then there are no laws. Vaccines are compulsory only for school admission.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>TonyaW</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15391164"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would like to print out information to keep in my car in case I ever have to take my unvaccinated child to the ER...I am sure it will happen someday.<br><br>
I know in the heat of the moment, I will be upset about whatever is wrong with my son and flustered with dealing with doctor's and nurses who disapprove of my sons vaccination status. Also my husband won't be very supportive because he will want to vaccinate if the doc says that is what I need to do.<br><br>
I live in Texas. So I would love a print out of the laws in Texas regarding vaccination if anyone knows where to find them.<br><br>
Also I would like print outs for different treatments and good info as to why I don't vaccinate.<br><br>
Thank you!</div>
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What sort of information are you looking for? To convince the doctor's that you are correct for not vaccinating? That will not happen, and will result in even more fights and more disapproving looks, should you happen to get doctors that do that. Many don't!<br><br>
Make sure your husband knows that there are no vaccines that protect your child immediately, so you can always go home and discuss things. Nothing needs to be done on the spot to protect your child from immediate danger.<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Marnica</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15391361"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Honestly I think that would be a collassal waste of your energy.<br><br>
First of all if you child is seen in the ER for something unrelated to vax status (ie a fall or broken limb) you do not need to share that they are unvaxed. It is irrelevant. I have been to the ER once for DS when he fell out of a shopping cart on his head. When asked about vaccines (which made me laugh that they would even ask about that given the nature of the visit), I said he was up to date. Not worth the risk of a hassle.<br><br>
If you do choose to share, if you present printouts of all the reasons you don't vax, I would imagine all you will do is irritate them. The ER is fast paced. They are interested in diagnosing the problem as quickly as possible. They are not going to sit down and read what you have taken the trouble and time to print out. The easiest response is to state you don't vaccinate for religious reason and leave it at that. JMHO <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
As for printing out tx law. Is your child in school? If so again you would just state you don't vax for religious reasons (in whoch case you have an exemption and could show them a copy if you wanted to). If not, then there are no laws. Vaccines are compulsory only for school admission.</div>
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I was honest when we went to the ER when dd had a head injury and they asked about vax status. They followed up by asking if dd had been exposed to measles, cp, or any other contagious diseases that I was aware of. When I said no, that was the end of it, and I understood why they asked. No big deal, and for me, not a reason to lie. But, not all ER experiences are the same.
 

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I'll tell you a little about my then 2y/o son's experience in the ER. He had his big toe smashed, so it was an open wound with a broken bone. A big deal. But the ER Dr. kept on about the vaccinations. She told me that there could be tetannus in the wound, and if he remained unvaccinated he might need to have his toe, or even his whole foot, removed. So I said, OK let's just do the tetannus. Well then she explained that it is normally given in the combo- the DTP. She'd rather give him all three. And if she did just the one she'd have to give him a second shot to "Create an immune response", which just SOUNDS toxic.<br><br>
So I ended up telling her I felt uncomfortable making that decision in that context and that I would go to my (very cool) pediatrician. Our own Dr. explained later that day that they only cases of tetannus in Arizona have been in less that 10 people, and all of them had direct contact with cow feces. She laughed when I told her about possible toe/foot removal, and said, "Isn't it so nice how you get such a balanced picture?"<br><br>
Beyond vaccinations tho there were other things that made me uncomfortable during that visit that you might want to look into. I was pressured into having way too many Xrays done. In children they like to X-ray the other foot as a comparable. So he ended up with 8 pictures done, four of each foot. Also he was given a shot of anti-biotics (the Dr. brought out the foot removal scenario for that one too). I'm not sure I'd do that again.<br><br>
Hope some of this helps. You're very wise to be thinking about this and getting information before you need it.
 

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I agree that you would largely be wasting your time. You're not going to convince the ER staff of anything and if you're anything like me, you'll start getting flustered when they question your "research"... I think you are better off preparing a 'standard response' that you will feel comfortable reciting when asked about vax status. It could just be, "We are religiously opposed," or something a little more elaborate. My favorite response, courtesy of another MDC mama, is something to the effect of, "If I tell you he's fully vaxed, you might rule out a VPD even though he could still have one, and if I tell you he's not vaxed, you might focus excessively on the VPD's when he could have a non-VPD." Sorry about the awkward wording, I obviously have to work on that one. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> But anyway, for your own sanity, I would really suggest just preparing a simple response rather then argue & debate with the (busy & probably not interested in your data) ER staff.<br><br>
I also agree with Veslemor that it might be a good idea to get some general info on ER treatments in advance, as well as let your DH know there is no need to panic & vax on the spot since the vax wouldn't work after the fact anyway.
 

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I have taken my son numerous times (special needs) for illness and injury. I always say "he's not vaxxed, Dr Smith manages his vax status since he is the most familiar with his extensive medical history." I don't want to lie, my son is especially susceptible to vaccine diseases because of an immune deficiency. But I always mention his dr so they know that it's not a decision I've made on my own. Somehow that gives it more credibility, you know?<br><br>
Thankfully I have never had a fight at all with ER docs. But I have practiced several statements in case I ever need them:<br><br>
"Thank you for your concern, but his vaccine status is irrelevant to why we came."<br><br>
"You've given me some information to think about, thank you, I'm going to talk to his Ped when I schedule the follow-up for this ER visit."<br><br>
"Please let's focus on his injury right now, we're both tired and stressed and I can't think straight."
 

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They wont care why you arnt vaxing no matter what print out you show them. They wont read it and will give your their own opinion. If you feel you must disclose you dont vax just claim the religious exemption and save your self a lot of time and wasted energy.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So, I am not of a religion which opposes vaccination, well maybe a few but not all. Would they ask what religion I am if I say we have religious exemption? If they ask, I wouldn't know what to say about that.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>TonyaW</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15392639"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">So, I am not of a religion which opposes vaccination, well maybe a few but not all. Would they ask what religion I am if I say we have religious exemption? If they ask, I wouldn't know what to say about that.</div>
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Klingon. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br><br>
But seriously, you don't have to tell. And they either won't ask, or they won't know which religions do or don't. You could just say "I'd rather not discuss my personal religious beliefs, can we focus on the injury/illness?" Or "I'll gladly have my religious leaders come and provide you information if you're truly interested in learning more."
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I was under the impression that it is legal not vaccinate. I am a bit confused on this issue though. I was just reading in Aviva Jill Romm's book that in order to have a religious exemption in Texas that proof of affiliation is required with a religious organization whose beliefs oppose vaccination. I read also that there is no philosophical exemption in Texas. It doesn't say anything about needing exemptions only for school purposes.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>TonyaW</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15392639"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">So, I am not of a religion which opposes vaccination, well maybe a few but not all. Would they ask what religion I am if I say we have religious exemption? If they ask, I wouldn't know what to say about that.</div>
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It is against the law to ask since that would be discrimination based on religion. It is legal to not vax but that dosnt mean that they wont try and get you in trouble with CPS. Seen to many posts about them being called in on parents who dont vax to think otherwise.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>TonyaW</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15393123"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I was under the impression that it is legal not vaccinate. I am a bit confused on this issue though. I was just reading in Aviva Jill Romm's book that in order to have a religious exemption in Texas that proof of affiliation is required with a religious organization whose beliefs oppose vaccination. I read also that there is no philosophical exemption in Texas. It doesn't say anything about needing exemptions only for school purposes.</div>
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Vaccines are only compulsory for school attendance. Each state has it's own schedule and public health laws when it comes to school. Some states follow the CDC schedule, some differ from it slightly. You do not need to have proof of a religious affiliation in TX and TX does indeed have a philisophical exemption as an option since 2003.<br><br><a href="http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/state-vaccine-requirements/texas.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/sta...nts/texas.aspx</a><br><br><a href="http://www.vaccineinfo.net/exemptions/index.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.vaccineinfo.net/exemptions/index.shtml</a> (Texas)
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>TonyaW</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15393123"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I was under the impression that it is legal not vaccinate. I am a bit confused on this issue though. I was just reading in Aviva Jill Romm's book that in order to have a religious exemption in Texas that proof of affiliation is required with a religious organization whose beliefs oppose vaccination. I read also that there is no philosophical exemption in Texas. It doesn't say anything about needing exemptions only for school purposes.</div>
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The US Supreme Court has ruled that the state cannot require you belong to a specific religion that doctrinally opposes vaccination. Even if it is still "on the books" it is unenforceable.<br><br>
And that info in Romm's book about Texas is incorrect.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So, I don't need an exemption unless my child is attending school. I plan to homeschool.<br><br>
Also, would I look more credible in the eyes of an ER doc if I presented an official exemption if I went to the ER for a "vaccine preventable" situation?
 

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Exemptions are only for places that would provide care for a child - school, daycare, maybe a YMCA type place. (We've only done them for preschool.) It's so they have something on record in place of the vax sheet. Really, it does nothing more.<br><br>
My 5yo DS was recently in the ER with severe abdominal pain. I was prepared to fight them about giving him motrin for his fever, but was shocked when they asked about vaccines. And *everyone* asked about vaccines. The best answer, which I was not prepared with, is "He has everything he needs." That could be honest for anyone doing no vax to selective vax to whatever. I ended up blubbering that we selectively/delay vax (he had two, once, at which point I decided I'd never do it again). They didn't argue with that, though one doc at a hospital he was transferred to asked about a specific vax, which I knew he hadn't had because his brother had had a reaction to it. Finally, the last person to ask (at 3am as we were getting settled in a room after his emergency surgery, which had nothing to do with vax-related illnesses), finally said, "Oh, so you don't need to him to have any now?" or something like that... Clarified that we had all we wanted and were NOT going to get more there. And that was that. No more questions.<br><br>
So, yes, be prepared for people to ask in an ER situation. I would be honest about not having a child vaxed for illnesses which the child might be presenting with, just so the docs know it's an open possibility (even though it's certainly possible with vaxed kids, too). I wouldn't want them dismissing pertussis just because they thought he had a vaccine, ya know? But when you're there for a broken arm or something unrelated, I also think it's fine to give the flat answer of, "He has all he needs." There's really not much more that you can bring to the table than a level-headed answer.<br><br>
(FWIW, we're in Texas, and we use the philosophical exemption when needed.)
 

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they always ask if my kids are vaxed and up to date at the ER and we're military and they're bullies here about vaxes<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll">. I lie and say "sure yep all up to date " LOL ;-) . I just dont think they need to know. I mean unless of course you think the child has one of those illnesses then that may be different. So I lie I'm a liar about it and I dont feel bad LOL <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue">
 

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We just took our 1yo to the ER just over a week ago b/c she fell on her head on our driveway. They asked if she was up to date and I said no, she hasn't had any and they moved on. The PA came in and again asked and then asked why and I just said b/c we don't get any w/ the attitude that it wasn't up for discussion and she dropped it. If you're going for an acute illness, they can't give vaxes to a sick baby anyways, or shouldn't. It would mostly be an issue if stitches are needed etc. Plus, giving a TD or DTaP shot to someone who actually has tetanus is dangerous. They get away w/ it b/c so few people get tetanus. Plus one shot won't help if you've never had any of the previous shots.<br><br>
ETA: I used to carry copies of their exemptions w/ me though just in case we did ever have to go to the ER. They all have them even though just the oldest 2 need them for school and summer activities.
 

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I had to take my son to the ER (he was 2 at the time) for a fall. We were on vacation in Florida. I told them he was not vaxed. They sent 3 people in at 3 separate times to 'discuss the situation' with me - BEFORE they even treated him. It was awful. Fortunately I was able to reach our awesome pediatrician who supports our decision and he called the ER doctors directly. Unfortunately though I think we were there for almost 8 hours - rather than maybe the 2 hours that it would have been - had it not been an issue.<br><br>
In the future I will say he us up to date on all medical exams / visits or something like that - blunt, w/ a confident don't-mess-with-me attitude.
 
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