[emmy526]

<div style="text-align:center;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
<table border="0" style="background-color:#E8D1BB;" width="1023"><tbody><tr><td style="width:1016px;height:21px;"> </td>
</tr></tbody></table></div>
<div style="text-align:center;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:medium;line-height:normal;">
<table border="0" style="background-color:#E8D1BB;" width="1023"><tbody><tr><td style="height:62px;padding-left:20px;padding-right:20px;"><span style="font-family:Georgia;">According to the American Medical Association, definite procedures have been established to govern medical office visits in relation to the process of obtaining informed consent from patients.  We are doing a study of people who are currently taking or have recently taken a prescribed medication to gather information about physician-patient communication and the extent of  any informed consent given by the you, the patient, regarding your treatment and any medications you were prescribed.</span></td>
</tr><tr><td style="height:36px;"> </td>
</tr></tbody></table></div>
<p><a href="http://informedconsentstudy.org/" target="_blank">http://informedconsentstudy.org/</a></p>

 

[rnra]

<p>This non-scientific survey seems like it's going to be subject to some strong bias.  Betsy Poulin, the person who is sponsoring the survey, also owns <em><a href="http://www.childrensbehaviorproblems.com/" target="_blank">Children's Behavior Problems:  Your Guide to Drug-Free Solutions</a> </em>and <a href="http://www.getoffmeds.com/" target="_blank">GetOffMeds.com</a>.  </p>

 

[kathymuggle]

<p>Thanks for the link, emmy. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>This is the 3rd study posted by in 3 weeks by a non-vaxxer that has been attacked or questioned  before the study was even done!  Isn't it the content of the study that is important, which we do not have yet?</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”</p>
<p> Arthur Conan Doyle</p>

 

[Rrrrrachel]

<p>I'm not sure what you mean by "the content of the study," but it's not necessary to wait to see what the results of a study are to know that the methodology is seriously flawed.  When the methodology is flawed it undermines the results, regardless of what they are.</p>

 

[chickabiddy]

<p>Isn't it more "fair" to question the study before the results are out?  We are not trying to cherry-pick studies based on whether we like the results or not: we are stating up-front that we see serious flaws in the methodology, such as that this is a self-selected population.</p>

 

[Mirzam]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>rnra</strong> <a href="/community/t/1370292/informed-consent-study/0_50#post_17202117"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p>This non-scientific survey seems like it's going to be subject to some strong bias.  Betsy Poulin, the person who is sponsoring the survey, also owns <em><a href="http://www.childrensbehaviorproblems.com/" target="_blank">Children's Behavior Problems:  Your Guide to Drug-Free Solutions</a> </em>and <a href="http://www.getoffmeds.com/" target="_blank">GetOffMeds.com</a>.  </p>
</div>
</div>
<p>Is it not preferable for children to be drug-free and for those that are not, to help them get off meds? Or would you prefer a world of drugged up kids?</p>

 

[pek64]

Flaws of study : self-selected population. What else?

 

[kathymuggle]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Mirzam</strong> <a href="/community/t/1370292/informed-consent-study#post_17202282"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p>Is it not preferable for children to be drug-free and for those that are not, to help them get off meds? Or would you prefer a world of drugged up kids?</p>
</div>
</div>
<p>Lol.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I actually read rnra's post and thought "Now I am more likely to do the survey!" </p>
<p> </p>
<p>While some pharmaceutical use is warranted and I try not to judge someone when I have not walked in their shoes,  I do think pharmaceuticals are overused in our culture.  Period.</p>

 

[pek64]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>kathymuggle</strong> <a href="/community/t/1370292/informed-consent-study#post_17202309"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Lol.<br><br>
I actually read rnra's post and thought "Now I am more likely to do the survey!" <br><br>
While some pharmaceutical use is warranted and I try not to judge someone when I have not walked in their shoes,  I do think pharmaceuticals are overused in our culture.  Period.</div>
</div>
<br>
Many times, when I go to a doctor to get information, I walk out with a prescription. Almost never do I get the prescription filled. I have told doctors that I merely want info, and they keep writing. I agree. Drugs are being overused.<br><br>
Regarding the self-selected population, drugs are tested on volunteers.

 

[Turquesa]

The author of the survey is using convenience, non-probability sampling. (As Pek64 stated, that's also usually the modus operendus of clinical researchers). So long as she is up front about her methodology in presenting her results to the public, we'll see that the generalizibility of the results is limited. Results from non-probability sampling can be useful in forming hypotheses and hopefully identifying how and where to direct future, more strongly designed research efforts. In short, the survey isn't completely useless.

 

[Rrrrrachel]

It's not exactly the case that that's how clinical trials are done. I see how you would get that impression from the idea that they're volunteers, though.

 

[chickabiddy]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>pek64</strong> <a href="/community/t/1370292/informed-consent-study#post_17202283"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Flaws of study : self-selected population. What else?</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p>That's not enough?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>There's no information about sample size, controls, or anything else.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If I enter that both myself and my child are taking medication (not necessarily true), there's no way to differentiate in further questioning whether the results apply to me or to my child.  I also cannot specify what kind of doctor each of us has seen, since there is only one entry allowed (I see several different doctors).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It allowed me to submit answers twice.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>All "science" is not created equal.</p>

 

[moderatemom]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>kathymuggle</strong> <a href="/community/t/1370292/informed-consent-study#post_17202203"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p>Thanks for the link, emmy. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>This is the 3rd study posted by in 3 weeks by a non-vaxxer that has been attacked or questioned  before the study was even done!  Isn't it the content of the study that is important, which we do not have yet?</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”</p>
<p> Arthur Conan Doyle</p>
</div>
</div>
<p> The time of the study design is the time to question it's quality.  Why would someone even want to waste their time doing a poorly-designed study?  I work in market research, and you would be shocked at how even a small difference in bias will skew results of a study.  The mere fact that this study is sponsored by a group with a clear agenda and has a self-selected sample automatically negates the findings for me, no matter what they are. </p>

 

[moderatemom]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>kathymuggle</strong> <a href="/community/t/1370292/informed-consent-study#post_17202309"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p>Lol.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I actually read rnra's post and thought "Now I am more likely to do the survey!" </p>
<p> </p>
<p>While some pharmaceutical use is warranted and I try not to judge someone when I have not walked in their shoes,  <strong>I do think pharmaceuticals are overused in our culture.  Period.</strong></p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p>Why do you think this?  What evidence do you have, other than a feeling that it shouldn't be that way?  What specific types of medications for what specific types of health problems do you think are overused? </p>

 

[pek64]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ModerateMom</strong> <a href="/community/t/1370292/informed-consent-study#post_17202810"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
 The time of the study design is the time to question it's quality.  Why would someone even want to waste their time doing a poorly-designed study?  I work in market research, and you would be shocked at how even a small difference in bias will skew results of a study.  The mere fact that this study is sponsored by a group with a clear agenda and has a self-selected sample automatically negates the findings for me, no matter what they are. </div>
</div>
<br>
That is precisely why I view pharma funded studies with skepticism. Thank you stating my views so clearly.

 

[pek64]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ModerateMom</strong> <a href="/community/t/1370292/informed-consent-study#post_17202812"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Why do you think this?  What evidence do you have, other than a feeling that it shouldn't be that way?  What specific types of medications for what specific types of health problems do you think are overused? </div>
</div>
<br>
However did mankind survive before the creation of pharmaceuticals?

 

[chickabiddy]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>pek64</strong> <a href="/community/t/1370292/informed-consent-study#post_17202913"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
However did mankind survive before the creation of pharmaceuticals?</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p>Lots didn't.</p>

 

[pek64]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>chickabiddy</strong> <a href="/community/t/1370292/informed-consent-study#post_17202914"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Lots didn't.</div>
</div>
<br>
You're talking individuals. I'm talking collectively.

 

[chickabiddy]

<p>Collectively, the birth rate was much higher.  Humanity survived because women wore themselves out having babies.</p>

 

[pek64]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>chickabiddy</strong> <a href="/community/t/1370292/informed-consent-study#post_17202927"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Collectively, the birth rate was much higher.  Humanity survived because women wore themselves out having babies.</div>
</div>
<br>
Mothers of large families would probably object to the "wore themselves out" .