[allgirls]

We were at a kids bday party yesterday and this older woman was going on and on about the problem with kids today is that they don't get a good smack when they need it....<br><br>
I was getting very irritated and said "I don't believe spanking works" and before I could get any further on this thought another woman spoke up and said<br><br>
"I beat mine on a regular basis and they don't behave any better than anyone elses"<br><br>
She said it in a very joking way which shut everybody up and once she got every ones attention she went on to say...she didn't believe in spanking and that in her opinion the kids who are spanked are the most aggressive and mouthy and most difficult to deal with unless they are beaten into submission(which no one there thought was appropriate) and she also said.."I have done home daycare for years and I have seen with my own eyes that the kids who are taught and disciplined gently are the ones who are the best behaved overall" She also went on to say "spanking is lazy parenting" and was really firm in what she was saying...no one argued with her...and several parents were agreeing wholeheartedly.<br><br>
BTW...all the children there were behaving beautifully and had a lot of fun.<br><br>
Some of the adults on the other hand were a bit out of control. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">

 

[abac]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">spanking is lazy parenting</td>
</tr></table></div>
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nod.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nod"> It's great people were so receptive to her comments. The only response I ever get is, "Just wait, you'll see."

 

[runes]

OOOh, I'm going to have to file those gems away, especially:<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">spanking is lazy parenting</td>
</tr></table></div>
The mama was so clever to 'break the ice' with a joking comment, and then to substantiate her POV with her own personal experiences and observations.<br><br>
I, too, have lots of experience working with babies/toddlers/preschoolers and I have to say that those that are treated with respect and taught/disciplined gently are the most well-behaved.<br><br>
I've gotten the "well, you'll see" line a few times, too, which I just dismiss.

 

[Ruthla]

Good for her!<br><br>
I would never have the ovaries to say something like that!

 

[mistymama]

Oooh, I love the "spanking is lazy parenting" line!<br><br>
I always draw a total blank when people argue with me about spanking ... I feel so passionate about it, but can't ever find the words to express myself.

 

[Fuamami]

I would caution anyone against using the "spanking is lazy parenting" line with any spankers you might be trying to convert or even maintain a cordial relationship with. Maybe for people who haven't yet spanked, but telling a parent they're lazy is rarely taken well.

 

[NB Mom]

I usually say something like, "how will I teach my kids to not hit, if I hit them?"<br>
This didn't work for my parents, they were the first and most persistant spanking advocates in my life. Now that ds is almost 4, they can see that I do not need to hit him to get him to listen.<br>
Of course, I have never said that my dc are the best behaved kids, either. But, just because they do not always behave the best, does not mean that my parenting is not working <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1">

 

[mamachandi]

<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/luxlove.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="throb">

 

[mommy2girlies]

i think that spanking is lazy parenting is totally true, but i wouldn't have the guts to say that to anyone :LOL i know that im doing it right because my children are the most well rounded and loving children...and im sure if i spanked that wouldn't be the case...i just can't see how some parents think that spanking their child will make the child be better. i would think that it would make the child fear them and i do NOT want my kids to fear me...i want them to love me...

 

[cmb123]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>natensarah</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would caution anyone against using the "spanking is lazy parenting" line with any spankers you might be trying to convert or even maintain a cordial relationship with. .</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I can't imagine wanting a relationship with someone who hits thier children. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug">

 

[allgirls]

I was like...<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/jaw.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="dropjaw"><br><br>
Then I was like<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bow2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bow2"><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/clap.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="clap"><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbsup"><br><br>
and then I was like....<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nod.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nod"><br><br>
She said it with such conviction..well...it was incredible...and I had no idea she was like this...

 

[Fuamami]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>cmb123</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I can't imagine wanting a relationship with someone who hits thier children. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug"></div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Wow! Well, I don't have the luxury, or come to think of it, the desire, of eliminating those people from my life. I would have to start with my mom...though she doesn't hit us any more. I guess I just thought it would definitely alienate and insult people, which also doesn't seem like the best way to get a dialogue started anyway.<br><br>
And, as I think about it, I would have to say I don't necessarily think spanking is lazy parenting. Lots of time it is, but sometimes I would describe it more as misguided or motivated by different goals than I have with my parenting. Those parents seem the most likely to be receptive to a discussion of why or why not spanking is a good idea, but probably not if you told them they were lazy.<br><br>
Just one mama's opinion.

 

[cmb123]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>natensarah</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Wow! Well, I don't have the luxury, or come to think of it, the desire, of eliminating those people from my life. I would have to start with my mom...though she doesn't hit us any more. I guess I just thought it would definitely alienate and insult people, which also doesn't seem like the best way to get a dialogue started anyway.<br></div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I don't consider it a "luxury," that's just my choice. I have made a very consious decision in my life to have "chosen" family, and friends that share the same principals as I do. I was serious when I said I can't imaging having a friend who hit her children- I wasn't trying to be snarky.<br>
Let them feel "alieneted" and "insulted" I'm not interested in having a "dialogue" with them anyway. What would we possible have to discuss?<br>
Just one other mom's opinion.

 

[Leilalu]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>cmb123</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I can't imagine wanting a relationship with someone who hits thier children. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug"></div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<br>
I think blatantly shutting someone out of your life is unnesecary in the case of casually spanking. I know some people who are very gentle in every other aspect of their parenting and are great parents besides that. I also think there is a vast difference in a relationship with someone where you know them casually and one where you know them in a way where you allow yourself to be influenced by them. And they by you.Sure, we have to pick the people we allow to influence us, but there are some we need to teach. It is wise to be on gaurd though around those people so we don't become wrongly influenced. But I am not so high and mighty to shut eveyone out of my life who doesn't know as much as me. Some people, I do not associate because we have vastly different beliefs on parenting, and it grieves me. And they have no intention of turning.<br><br>
As for the OP, I wish I could've been a fly on that wall<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"><br><br><br>
Oh, and I am not advocating spankng or justifying it in my friends lives...just noting what I see.

 

[NattylockedMama]

Ok so <b>I don't spank my kids because I do not want to teach them that if you do not like someone's actions that you should react with violence.</b><b>I want my children to respect me so there for I should respect them it is a 2 way street!!!</b> This si my come back when people try to justify spanking!!I reason with my children and that usualy works if I give them a good reason why they should not be doing something or acting a certain way they usualy understand if that dose not work then they are given chocies like you can stop throwing a fit or throw one in your room! I think that in some cases that spanking is deffinantly lazzy parenting and I would say it if the shoe fit! although I totaly understand what NatenSarah was saying about using caution when speaking with parents that do spank because people get verry deffensive when you critisize there parentel approaches,and no I would not cut off all ties with anyone who occasionaly spanks thats just silly.However cuting off ties with violent people and in some cases doing something about it I'm all for!!!!! I think that parents who occasionaly spank for the most part have just not been educated enough on other options mabey ignorant parenting beter fits? Afterall most of the people who I know were spanked growing up and it is a commonly used method of discipline. A method that I am completly against and that is why if I do have a chance to talk it over with a mom or dad who spanks I do want them to be as open and receptive as possibel to what I'm saying at least hear my point of veiw wich they will not do if they feel like thay have to defend themselfs from your critisizum. As someone who loves children that is the best thing I can do is to try to camly talk to parents that spank and offer as much advice as I can on the alternative options. Remember I'm sayin I would not cut ties with people who occasionaly spank not out and out beat on their kids, people who spank their kids with belts spoons or anything else realy chap my ass and get me goin' <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/soapbox.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="soapbox"> but In my experience Ihave learned you can change the mind of the frustrated parent that dishes out the occasionaly swat on that ass or smack of the hand and most of the time they can be converted to the gentel loving side of discipline <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">

 

[Fuamami]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>cmb123</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't consider it a "luxury," that's just my choice. I have made a very consious decision in my life to have "chosen" family, and friends that share the same principals as I do. I was serious when I said I can't imaging having a friend who hit her children- I wasn't trying to be snarky.<br>
Let them feel "alieneted" and "insulted" I'm not interested in having a "dialogue" with them anyway. What would we possible have to discuss?<br>
Just one other mom's opinion.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Well, okay, I guess it's not exactly a luxury, but I wouldn't have too many friends if I didn't allow for some spankers.<br><br>
I just think it's easy to get a little judgmental towards people who choose to spank. Sure, there definitely are some very lazy parents out there, but there are also a lot of parents who are genuinely worried that their children will not grow up to be considerate, moral, contributing members of society if they are not punished and/or spanked. They love their children just as much as you do, and I don't think any person deserves to be insulted in that way. I think an explanation of why I have chosen not to spank MY kids is much more respectful than a general statement that insinuates the parent you are talking to is lazy.

 

[cmb123]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>natensarah</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Sure, there definitely are some very lazy parents out there, but there are also a lot of parents who are genuinely worried that their children will not grow up to be considerate, moral, contributing members of society if they are not punished and/or spanked. They love their children just as much as you do, and I don't think any person deserves to be insulted in that way. I think an explanation of why I have chosen not to spank MY kids is much more respectful than a general statement that insinuates the parent you are talking to is lazy.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
You're right about that. I probably wouldn't have made that comment to someone myself, I'm just not appalled that someone did, especially if they were being critisized for "not" spanking.<br><br>
Trust me, IRL I'm as laid back, peace love and happiness as they get. I am in the position to "teach" parents about gentle discipline, and loving guidance all of the time. I am kind, and non-judgemental, and I know that I have made a difference in many childrens (and parents) lives. BUT- In my "home life" I want to be surrounded by those who share the same philosophy that I do. I don't want my intimate relationships to be with violent people. If that comes off as "high and mighty" so be it I guess. Just kinda cracks me up though, cause I've never been descibed that way! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">

 

[quidditchmom]

I loved that!<br><br>
Normally I'm kinda shy and wouldn't say anything like that. I did once, though. It felt good :LOL<br><br>
Yesterday I was at one of my classes, where, to my horror, there were loads of prospanking people <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> Thank goodness most of them didn't have kids (mostly 18 yos). I voiced that I didn't think that any child EVER needed to be spanked, and that I would never raise my hand against a person that was less than half my size - in anger or in a misguided attempt at discipline.<br><br>
The guy beside me rolled his eyes and kinda smirked and said "have fun raising kids" to which I replied "oh, I am" <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"> Then I proceeded to tell them that I have 5 children and have been actively involved in working with children for a good 20 years, between babysitting my own little sibs and other kids, working at day cares and subbing at schools. I've also watched a number of kids in my own home since having my own kids. Remembering this thread I told them that the best behaved kids that I've dealt with haven't been spanked. Because it's true. Thinking about it , all of the kids I've watched that have been spanked have been the hardest ones to deal with.<br><br>
That's how I ended our spanking discussion :LOL