[excitedtobeamom]

http://mothering.com/articles/new_ba...-children.html

I would love to hear other's thoughts on this article.

 

[RedOakMomma]

A while back there was some feedback for the magazine in this forum...people saying that they didn't feel the magazine talked about issues related to adoption, or experiences that went beyond birth, infants, or birth bonds. This article does both, and I'm glad for that.

I don't know, though. The article makes me feel uncomfortable, and I can't say why exactly. I think part of it is that it's so misty-eyed magical, so focused on how if parents just do it "right" (and of course, right = attachment parenting, even unschooling) then kids will be healed with love. If you adopt a traumatized child, all you have to do is parent the right way and all will turn out magical, rosy, and beautiful. Sure, there might be periods when "cycles of emotional overwhelm after periods of stability," but look how amazing he is! And it's all because of love and AP!!!

I know it CAN work like that, but articles like this one seem to reinforce an idea, especially among people who are new to adoption and attachment, that love will fix everything. I think it gives people the idea that, with enough dedication, they can step in and fix/save children who have been traumatized. That isn't always the case, and AP isn't always what people need to help a child.

From the article:

Quote:

However, I know that every child is capable of reaching spectacular potential if they are honored with the basic instinctual nurturance and care that is simply the natural mammal way of parenting. Natural attachment parenting and self-directed learning isn't progressive; it isn't a philosophy, a viewpoint, a technique or a lifestyle; it is simply the natural way that mammals thrive, the natural condition that each human is born equipped to respond to and be satiated by. Anything else just simply doesn't meet the needs of the human mammal. My son is thriving not because I am using any techniques or philosophies termed "progressive" or "political," but because I am simply meeting his most basic attachment, physical, emotional, spiritual, and learning needs. It is as simple as that

Yes, this is one way. That's true. It works for some. But it's not the only way, and it doesn't work for every child. I think about dharmamama, and others on this board, who have found AP to be the exact opposite of what a severely traumatized child needed. And I think about all the newbie posters here, myself included at times, who skim over a real understanding of trauma or loss because they think that all they need is love and AP.

It's just not that simple. I'm sure the author of the article knows the complexities, and this article wasn't enough to address them. But I do hope she knows how lucky she is that her methods/philosophy worked for her son, and knows that not everyone is so fortunate.

 

[Diane B]

I notice this was a "web-only exclusive" so it's not like they actually ran it in the magazine.

I had a little trouble with this:

"Many adoptive mothers of older children spend years of angst-filled struggle trying to punish, manipulate, or coerce their children into compliant reciprocity. They scaffold this nightmarish dance with years of therapies with experts who either fail to consider the imperative attachment needs and trauma damage or who go to the extreme of perverting attachment needs with abusive, controlling, and concentration camp-like strategies to force children to attach to parents subsequently trained in said tactics."

Really?

Also, the conflation of "attachment parenting" with attachment issues in this article is troubling to me. No, you can't heal all attachment problems with "attachment parenting" practices. Didn't work at my house, at least. And we've used many of the alternative healing methods she mentioned - homeopathy, cranio-sacral therapy, diet changes - and they help, but they aren't a "cure."

I'm glad it's working for her and her son, but I have rarely read a less realistic piece about adoption. I think it would work better as a personal story, leaving out the judgment and advice.

 

[excitedtobeamom]

At first read it seems so warm and fuzzy and if things did work out so wonderfully for her that is wonderful. I was thinking of dharmama as well and all that she went and is still probably going through. I am afraid that a piece like this may encorage people to adopt with unrealistic expectations. I knew you all would put it into words better than I would. I also don't want to negate her story but every child and situation is so different I don't want others who would love to AP think they have failed or think AP is a cure for all.

 

[Masel]

It weirds me out too but I guess you need to consider the audience. This is aimed at AP parents who mourn every second away from their infant. Showing them a good outcome with 10 years missed is monumental and could help some kids in foster care.

Still her writing style makes me uncomfortable too. I guess it is the hyperpoly and the dismissal of many forms of counseling. I think the essense of attachment parenting is listening to what your child needs and not necessarily going for the crunchy alternative treatment 100% of the time.

 

[AngelBee]

:

 

[sisteeesmama]

I have to say I am surprised that not one comment so far was very positive about that essay.

I teared up while reading. I thought everything she said was so beautiful about the way she looked at her new son like a new mother would look at her newborn baby. About how she made him a promise to fill up his empty emotional cup. I just thought it was so loving and tender of her to recognize that he probably had missed out on many things we bio moms take for granted with our own bio-kids.

I do understand that there is no one size fits all approach to parenting the RAD/adopted/older child, but I think there is room for this womans experience to be a beacon of hope, an option that some may never have considered before. Not everyone knows how to AP with their own bio-kids, let alone what that would look like in the case of adopting an older child.

I especially loved how she exlpained to him what his birth would have been like with her. I ran that over in my mind a few times through out the day yesterday, trying to extract the lessons that might apply for me later in life with my own daughter even though her birth story with me won't be fictional.
I could see how something like that might be very healing for a child whose own mother never thought to cherish that event or talk to him about it....ever...or even worse thought it was a terrible experience as so many women do.

I get where the pp are coming from, it would be a mistake for anyone to read into this essay more than it was saying. But I think that for what it is it was a very inspiring read and a side a lot of people may never have heard before, me included. I am very AP with my dd, but I think this women gave me some little thoughts to take away that I hope I won't soon forget.

Feel free to dismiss my opinion since I'm not an adoptive mother, but I think the lessons reach further than adoption on this one.

 

[queenjane]

I finally read the article. Overall, i really liked it. I *think* i may have read an article by the same woman in an unschooling magazine.

I think that the article shouldnt be the end-all be-all of advice for older child adoption...obviously a parent contemplating such an adoption should read lots more on the subject. So i agree with the PP that we should consider who the target audience is.

I dont feel like she glossed over anything, but rather is taking an intentional position on certain child-raising techniques. For example, she has intentionally chose not to medicate her child. Other parents may feel that medication for certain behaviors is appropriate. I would be interested to discuss with the author how she feels about treating mental health disorders through medication. BUT i do think she may have a point if she feels children in the system are overmedicated for behaviors that are often caused by their situation in the system and not by organic brain chemistry.

She mentioned her son gaining weight and height etc after being in her home, that is VERY common, my social worker said she's seen kids put on twenty or forty pounds after being placed in their adoptive homes. LOVE (and good food, and safety and stability) *can* "grow" kids.

I didnt get the impression she was saying that basically love is enough, though. She mentioned several therapies that she used, EMDR being one that i have read is VERY helpful for children with PTSD. She also talked about the same types of attachment promoting activities mentioned in books such as "Parenting the Hurt Child", a favorite older child adoption book.

She made the excellent point that traditional counseling is often detrimental to older adopted traumatized children (esp if attachment issues are present) but (imo, rightly so) is suspicious of so called "attachment therapy"...while i think certain attachment therapists are doing a great job, there IS a group of...well, wackos...out there who IMO do much more harm than good. (I saw a video of an older boy being forced to be "cradled" while his therapist provoked a "rage response" and it was *heartbreaking*, i couldnt even finish watching it, and i'm not usually so sensitive.)

If anything, i think she may have overdramatized the "trauma" suffered by children adopted at birth (she mentioned parents having to do years more of attachment/bonding stuff than they would w/ birth children...i personally have found my 1 yr old son to be well attached and no different in this regard than my birth child) She mentioned all the things adoptive parents should do to enhance attachment, like breastfeeding and carrying in a sling all the time...and honestly we didnt do much of it, and my son has healthy attachments, because i listened to his cues and responded to his needs (the crux of AP.)

I also think that its totally possible that many older adoptive children can heal from their trauma through love, respect, structure, living in a stable home, with a parent willing to meet attachment needs. I can only imagine if my older child ended up in foster care, with his behavior issues as a preschooler, and how much he hated school at that time, i think he would have been punished, medicated, coerced, and miserable. Just changing from public school to homeschooling, and me quitting my job and us moving back near supportive family totally changed his personality...i can imagine with a traumatized child the change could be even more dramatic. Will it work that way for ALL children? No, of course not. But there ARE kids in the system who are just waiting for that type of family to come and set them free.

Do i think the article presented a sort of rosy picture? Of course, most short magazine articles or online articles DO. But do i think what she presented was totally unrealistic or unbelievable? No.

Katherine

 

[Sierra]

I very much related to the article, particularly the first part.
First, the idea that from a young age this mama dreamed of a parenthood experience that included fostering and adoption. But second and more importantly, that experience of bonding with older children.

I often say about our permanent placement teen that the bonding experience paralleled that with a newborn babe, it just looked different on the surface because, well, this was a 15 year old.

I share many of those misty-eyed thoughts on adoption of older children, and I do think that our loving, AP approaches can be healing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedOakMomma I think part of it is that it's so misty-eyed magical, so focused on how if parents just do it "right" (and of course, right = attachment parenting, even unschooling) then kids will be healed with love. If you adopt a traumatized child, all you have to do is parent the right way and all will turn out magical, rosy, and beautiful.

As I was reading, I did think of folks who have no experience with adoption (yet) and how when they read what she said, they would have no idea that there can also easily be...even when parents are AP parents:

*moments in the ER with a child who has attempted suicide
*moments in the pysch unit of the hospital after a child threatens someone with a knife he has in his hand
*moments when a child literally can't control himself until a police officer arrives because the limits/boundaries have to be *that* clear
*moments of finding an insect infestation that leads you to discover that your child has been hoarding food in his bedroom, even though you even gave him a special drawer in the kitchen and promised you'd never look in it

"Overwhelming moments of emotion" really doesn't conjur up the reality.

Quote:

I know it CAN work like that, but articles like this one seem to reinforce an idea, especially among people who are new to adoption and attachment, that love will fix everything.

Yes, it is a fine line. Because on one hand, the beacon of hope is important. Especially when you have such a kid in your care. But on the other hand, the mythology can set everyone up for failure.

Quote:

Yes, this is one way. That's true. It works for some. But it's not the only way, and it doesn't work for every child. I think about dharmamama, and others on this board, who have found AP to be the exact opposite of what a severely traumatized child needed.

I think the most offensive thing about the article is the idea that *only* AP can heal. We used AP as much as we could with our older foster kids. But that wasn't enough. They needed other stuff too. A kid who has for fifteen years been forced to focus every ounce of his being on survival by attentiveness to the external world is going to take a long, long time to develop internal motivation. Especially when he hasn't built a foundation for internal motivation in a positive direction...when all his life he has been exposed to truly destructive adults. That kid might *need* sticker charts and other "coercive" methods until he's built up other skills.

I am willing to bet that in cases like with this mom, where there is only one child in the house, an AP approach is more possible, more of the time. Because you can give it time while those foundational skills are building, without the safety of other kids, etc. being compromised along the way. That was one of the reasons that we had a "one child only" policy when we did therapeutic foster care. We *never* took additional placements when we already had a kid in our home. Folks like dharmamama are stretched in a hundred directions at once, so naturally the experience is going to be much less "rosy" than the one described by this parent of an only.

Still, like I said, I relate to what this author is saying and don't think she is necessarily off-target. I *loved* fostering older kids. It was very, very tough. But I loved it. And there were times when I really put AP for older kids into practice.

I just won't do it again until my younger kids are grown and out of our home because I know that it wouldn't be at all the same now that we have younger kidos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diane B I had a little trouble with this: "Many adoptive mothers of older children spend years of angst-filled struggle trying to punish, manipulate, or coerce their children into compliant reciprocity. They scaffold this nightmarish dance with years of therapies with experts who either fail to consider the imperative attachment needs and trauma damage or who go to the extreme of perverting attachment needs with abusive, controlling, and concentration camp-like strategies to force children to attach to parents subsequently trained in said tactics." Really?

I think that is so, maybe not for many, but for enough adoptive parents to take note. The more controversial attachment therapies and other therapies for older adopted children absolutely embody this.

Quote:

Also, the conflation of "attachment parenting" with attachment issues in this article is troubling to me. No, you can't heal all attachment problems with "attachment parenting" practices.

You are right. This is so, so important to note, and deserves a "letter to the editor" even though this is a web-exclusive.

Quote:

Didn't work at my house, at least. And we've used many of the alternative healing methods she mentioned - homeopathy, cranio-sacral therapy, diet changes - and they help, but they aren't a "cure."

I feel the same way, actually, when folks talk about a variety of natural healing methods. There is a homeopathist on the internet who claims he had type I diabetes and cured it with a special diet. Um, no. He either had type II or was misdiagnosed by doctors. Type II has no cure but can be treated often through diet and excercise so that a type II may never face taking insulin, etc. Type I is an entirely different disease, with a different cause (autoimmune illness), pathological process, treatment (can only be treated with insulin via injection or pump), and even some different complications. A cure for type I by diet would be absolutely 100% impossible because you can't replace missing islet cells (insulin-producing cells) with diet.

Some folks having trouble getting pregnant get pregnant after eating more natural diets, not using cleaning chemicals at home, and driving always with the car windows up and internal air circulation to avoid smog exposure. But the truth is that none of those things are cures for infertility (except if a better diet=weight loss and the infertility was caused by PCOS which is correlated with being overweight). When someone posts on the infertility boards about how they cured themselves of infertility by doing the above, I admit that I get irritated. These actions might help when someone is struggling to get pregnant, but they don't *cure* infertility.

I absolutely support alternative healing as one mode for helping ourselves. But to present them as the be-all, end-all is just irresponsible.

Quote:

I think it would work better as a personal story, leaving out the judgment and advice.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama I do understand that there is no one size fits all approach to parenting the RAD/adopted/older child, but I think there is room for this womans experience to be a beacon of hope, an option that some may never have considered before. Not everyone knows how to AP with their own bio-kids, let alone what that would look like in the case of adopting an older child.

This is true, but I don't think there was a lot of specific advice in the article. Judgement, but only a few real tips.

Quote:

I especially loved how she exlpained to him what his birth would have been like with her. I ran that over in my mind a few times through out the day yesterday, trying to extract the lessons that might apply for me later in life with my own daughter even though her birth story with me won't be fictional. I could see how something like that might be very healing for a child whose own mother never thought to cherish that event or talk to him about it....ever...or even worse thought it was a terrible experience as so many women do.

I thought that description and the paragraph she wrote about kids wanting to be rocked or bottlefed, etc. were both interesting paragraphs because they were basically controversial attachment therapy techniques presented as child-initiated activities done in gentle rather than forceful ways. Certainly those same techniques can be applied as gentle child-initiated activities, and I definitely had similar conversations with my teenage son about what his birth might have been like, but it is really, really hard for me to imagine any of the older kids I've parented asking to be bottlefed. I can't eliminate parental coercion/manipulation from the bottlefeeding scenario in my mind. I just don't see it. But, perhaps there are kids out there who would suddenly come up with that on their own?? (I personally think that infantalizing a child is a dangerously fine-line...yes, the developmentally young and previously-unparented kids inside our older children need to be parented/rocked/cradled/etc....but this has to be done really thoughtfully and I can see a lot of harm coming from bottlefeeding a teen...sorry!)

I think in essence what I am getting at is that while our kids naturally want to heal, they need guidance in how to do that and it doesn't come easily just because we are gentle and AP about it. Frankly, more often than not, healing looks like a child about to self-destruct. When your lifetime of "normal" is turned upside down, and someone else introduces a new normal to you, you really fight settling into comfort with that new normal!

 

[queenjane]

Quote:

I thought that description and the paragraph she wrote about kids wanting to be rocked or bottlefed, etc. were both interesting paragraphs because they were basically controversial attachment therapy techniques presented as child-initiated activities done in gentle rather than forceful ways. Certainly those same techniques can be applied as gentle child-initiated activities, and I definitely had similar conversations with my teenage son about what his birth might have been like, but it is really, really hard for me to imagine any of the older kids I've parented asking to be bottlefed. I can't eliminate parental coercion/manipulation from the bottlefeeding scenario in my mind. I just don't see it. But, perhaps there are kids out there who would suddenly come up with that on their own?? (I personally think that infantalizing a child is a dangerously fine-line...yes, the developmentally young and previously-unparented kids inside our older children need to be parented/rocked/cradled/etc....but this has to be done really thoughtfully and I can see a lot of harm coming from bottlefeeding a teen...sorry!)

When i first started reading about attachment issues/therapy lots of advice i read was to bottlefeed and other activities to encourage "babyness"...but when i actually started talking to parents who had older kids, they suggested alternative activities that achieved similar response...such as offering chewy caramels while making eye contact. That sort of thing. One mom i know online always offers a sweet snack before bedtime, no matter what, its not something they can "lose" through bad behavior, its a bonding/loving time.

Katherine

 

[sisteeesmama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sierra This is true, but I don't think there was a lot of specific advice in the article. Judgement, but only a few real tips.

I personally often find that I don't thrive on specific tips about how to do very specific things when it comes to parenting, so much as I like to be re-inspired in my beliefs. THis article just reminded me of that feeling of really intending to do right by my child. Really striving to parent gently and respectfully with a deep level of trust and striving to understand and anticipate her needs, be they emotional, physical or what have you.

To me it was nice to have sucha loving reminder yesterday, for me it was lovely.

 

[Sierra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sisteeesmama I personally often find that I don't thrive on specific tips about how to do very specific things when it comes to parenting, so much as I like to be re-inspired in my beliefs.

This might have been why I also had agreed with a previous poster who said this would have been better as a personal story type article rather than one that hit an occassional instructional tone (which came off as judgement).

 

[mamarhu]

I identified with the author on so many counts. Especially the bonding/claiming of my daughter - one night as I sat by her bed after reading, and she was sleeping, I found myself counting her toes and marveling at their perfection. The awe filled feeling that her creation was so perfect, was exactly equivalent to the toe and finger counting marveling that I did with each bio baby moments after their birth. And this was with a 7 YO who when she was awake exhibited every RAD symptom you have ever heard of. Now I am adding her 6 YO brother who has been in a crazy bad foster home for the 2 years MiddleGirl has been in care. Some of his behaviors are pretty out there, and yet I feel that love feeling sneaking up on me. And in a month or 2 the twin sisters are coming. I am so excited about getting to know them better, yet tomorrow I am attending their IEP deciding if these adorable 5 YOs can be managed in public school. Some part of my thinks that perhaps unschooling, with enough unconditional love, is what they need. I have been waxing philosophic these days, as my family grows and I am overwhelmed with the love I have for these kids.

All I have done with MiddleGirl is my AP natural unconditional love style - really, I think that is all I am capable of. And this kid has gone from near-feral to pretty darn healthy in 18 months. I have moments when I feel I want to shout from the rooftops (or at least write a magazine article!) to tell the world how well this is working. And if I did, I bet it would come off even more preachy than that article.

I really don't think my "style" of parenting is something I can or should promote for anyone else's situation. But it is really working well in my family. I am happy to hear that a similar approach is working for another family. And I hope people read this article as a story with a happy ending, rather than an instructional guide.

 

[junipermoon]

i liked the sentiment, even if the writing was flowery.

frankly the push to prescribe "structure" over or as opposed to "nurture" as a kneejerk response to older child adoption concerns me. certainly a need for extra structure needn't preclude the opportunity to practice natural family living--mammalian style attachment is important to mammals. YES i agree the picture is complicated by loss and trauma--but if anything that means our kids need more AP over time and in doses that they want and accept--not less.

i don't like to think about a binary being set up between bio children or newborn adoptions and older child adoptions--where it is seen as appropriate to give that pure AP energy to a kid who hasn't experienced multiple attachment disruptions or a failure to attach--but dangerous or innapropriate to kids who have had none or one loss or disruption.

 

[mamarhu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by junipermoon frankly the push to prescribe "structure" over or as opposed to "nurture" as a kneejerk response to older child adoption concerns me. certainly a need for extra structure needn't preclude the opportunity to practice natural family living--mammalian style attachment is important to mammals.

Absolutely - they also recommend "structure for EVERY kid with autism - no thanks, we are really doing well unschooling. This kid is thriving.

I think there is something to be said for offering a child from a chaotic background stability, serenity, and trust. But structure is not an essential part of that. I will say that my new LittleGuy was eating popcorn last night, and asked if we could have that every night. I said probably not every might. So he asked, "How about every Tuesday?" But still, even predictability doesn't really need to be highly structured.