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Inviting one child over to play, but not his sibling?

2021 Views 28 Replies 25 Participants Last post by  2pinks, 
G
I'll try to keep this as short as possible!

Please, too, if you have a special needs child, know this isn't a rant against the child and his challenges. It's about dealing with the outcomes.

We have friends that live down the road. They have two boys, age 13 and age 9. Ds really likes the 13 year old (ds is almost 11), but the 9 year old drives him batty.

The 9 year old (I'll call him "B") is developmentally delayed. He acts more like a 3 year old many ways, younger in others. His speech is along the lines of "Me want dat!" and announcing in a loud voice, "Me need poopy!" "B" has no perception of interrupting other's speaking or obeying a warning (not to go or do something, or stopping what he already doing that is unacceptable). He throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way.

Ds understands that their is something different with "B". He doesn't dislike him, he just doesn't want to play with him. It's like playing with a toddler.

Okay, we can deal with this (though the non-response to obeying drives me to distraction when he's here and I will not tolerate tantrums).

"B" also has his fingers in his mouth 90% of the time, sucking on them. THIS is the behaviour that pushes ds over the edge. Yesterday, when the boys were here, "B" was looking at and handling ds's toys, but with hands wet with saliva. I'm talking WET! Ds, politely, asked him to dry his hands before playing with his toys (and "B"'s older brother said the same). "B" just gave a loud "NO!" and continued as before. I heard both boys sigh.

After they left, ds grabbed a bottle of spray alcohol and gave all the things that "B" had handled a thorough spritzing. He asked me how to keep "B" from coming over again and again.

I am at a loss. The parents insist that both boys always come over.

There is never any mention of "B" delayed development, and I certainly don't want to bring it up as they seem to be unaware of it (or, more likely, unwilling to bring it up themselves). I don't want to make an issue of their child's "differentness" and I don't want to put my foot in my mouth and cause bad feelings which would affect ds. We homeschool, and his circle of friends is already limited.

So, how do you invite just the older boy (he has so many interests in common with ds) and not the younger?? Ds really wants just the older brother to play with. Ds and he cannot have "normal" playtime as they have to keep an eye on "B" all the time (he likes to wander around the house, opening everything, unless supervision is maintained all the time).

When ds invites the older brother over for an afternoon, "B" always arrives with him. When ds goes to their house, "B" is always there to play with them.

I don't want to always have to be in the line of sight/hearing with the boys, but I have to when they are here, because of "B". My days of having a baby-proof house are past. Ds and his older friend are certainly mature enough that they can play without supervision inside or out (but, "B" is not). I also don't think it is fair that "B"'s older brother always has to keep watch on him, without benefit of time alone with other friends (though I know that is what his parents expect him to do, fairness aside). Yesterday, I had to tell "B" to come out of the bathroom (after asking him if he was okay, through the door, as he'd been in there for several minutes). When he came out, I saw that my make-up drawer had been opened and several items had wet smears and fingernail gouges on them.
: I had to toss them.

I want ds to have some playtime, alone, with his friend.

How do I/we tell the parents that ds doesn't want "B" over to play every single time the boys are here? That he has broken things and that we cannot keep our eyes off him for a minute? Ds doesn't mind "B" coming over some of the time, but just not everytime. He understands that "B" always has to play with them at their house.

Honestly, though I know the way he is it isn't his fault, I don't want to babysit "B" either.

Help! Ds actually suggested I ask for suggestions/advice here on the boards!

So, any thoughts on this? (((Other than a percentage of you will probably think I am a terrible person.................
: )
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D
I think it is a reasonable request that you be allowed to have a play date for your older child and the older sibling. You are not providing a babysitting service, nor did you offer to provide one.

Politely ask the mother if on the next play date only the older child come, if the younger child comes, promptly call the mother and state that only the older child was to come as you had discussed and that the older boys seem to enjoy themselves more without the younger. Also mention that your home is no longer childproofed and you do not feel comfortable being responsible for the younger child.

I have a feeling that I'll get flamed too, ah well, but I think that these are reasonable responses.

Liz
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D
I don't think you're a terrible person. I don't even think that this situation can only happen in cases where there are special needs. I don't personally believe that siblings should be required to play together all the time, period. The older boy should be allowed to have his own friends and his own time, regardless of whether his younger brother has special needs.

That said, I don't know how to resolve your situation. I'm going to guess that the other parents would not be terribly happy about your asking them to exclude their younger son from visits. However, your only chance is through talking with them. You may have to just express your concerns, that you want the older boys to be able to play at your house without supervising the younger one. Let them know that the younger one often disrupts their games and their time together, and that the boys need a break from dealing with that sometimes. Maybe start with every other time B can come, or whatever.

I'm sorry. It sounds like a challenging situation.
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G
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J
My question to you is what would you do if B did not have special needs? I think in that circumstance you would call up the parents and just say you know I have no problem with B at all, but my son sometimes wants to just play with the older brother. Is there any way we can set up times for it to be just them and other times when B can come along too.

I would like to also point out that your post slightly bothers me. The words like throwing a tandrum when he doesn't get what his way and I do not tolerate tandrums really seems to set a negative tone towards B that I think your son is picking up on. I think it is important to teach our kids tolerance, and I think we need to model that for them.

I will also add that I don't think your son has to always have B come over too. I think you should be honest with B and the older boys parents and say that your son doesn't mind playing with B sometimes but if you could just have the older boy over sometimes too.

Also just because they haven't discussed his delay with you doesn't necessarily mean they don't know it exists or doesn't want to talk about it, it might just mean they figure it is pretty obvious and are okay with it and figure if you don't bring it up you must be okay with it too.

Instead of being polically correct I would just try to be honest with the parents, that is what I would want if I was B parents.
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Tigerchild
I'm sorry, but I think it's standard that all siblings do NOT come to every playdate their siblings go on.

To me, the fact that B has some special needs is irrelevant. Though I don't know, maybe other areas of the country are different? Almost all of my kids' friends have siblings, and the parents have never assumed that a playdate at my house includes siblings (and they're always shocked when I invite sibs, because a lot of my DD's friends in particular also come from families with many children close in age, so at least one or two siblings are my boys' age).

However, I don't think there's any way possible that you can broach this subject without causing offense--because the parents have an extremely unrealistic expectation in the first place. Maybe you can try to arrange some playdates at the friends house instead of yours? Or maybe this is a holdover rule that was applied because family was unkind to B, and the parents may be more open to "You know, we don't mind having both boys over on occasion, but sometimes DS would really just like a one on one playdate. Is it okay if we try that every other time?" than you think.

I could see this policy going on a really long time unchecked and untalked about because when other families hear it they slip into avoidance mode and avoid the playdates altogether. You've already opened your home to B, so it's not like you want to shun him. So it may be you can test the waters by asking for a regular exception to the rule.

If you're asked why, you can always say truthfully that while the boys always do try to include B, sometimes having a tagalong sib interferes with their play, and it would be nice if sometimes they got to do that. I would also be honest perhaps with some of the behavior issues and ask for input on how to resolve situations where B will not listen to rules (wouldn't you do that for a child who didn't have any disabilities?). In short, I'd just talk about it normally, like you would for any other child, disability or not.

Hopefully the parents will be open to hearing that. Most parents of kids who have special needs are a LOT more open to that kind of thing than most people think they are--it's just uncomfortable to talk about it, so lots of people don't bother and then just avoid those families.
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J
Quote:

Originally Posted by denimtiger View Post
I don't think you're a terrible person. I don't even think that this situation can only happen in cases where there are special needs. I don't personally believe that siblings should be required to play together all the time, period. The older boy should be allowed to have his own friends and his own time, regardless of whether his younger brother has special needs.

I agree 100%! I don't think you are terrible at all. Special needs or not (which is irrelevant in my eyes anyway), if your DC has a friend the siblings do not automatically get a free-pass as far as I am concerned. My DS (almost 6) has friends who have siblings and when we invite that friend over their siblings DO NOT come with them. They are always welcome though since they all get along very well (the siblings are all older 7 and 14 year olds) and it is usually their choice not to play with the younger kids lol. If someone invited me out to dinner i would not bring my DH or kids along! I see no difference.
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Youngfrankenstein
My boys are 15 months apart, now 8 & 9. It is now at these ages that they don't always have over-lapping friends. It's very nice. There are many people they play with together, and there are many who they play with one on one.

What if you called and invited the big brother and went to the house to pick him up to come over? Then B wouldn't be sent automatically. Or take the two older boys somewhere like the park where it wouldn't be playing in your home

I know that at one time or another the child left at home feels bad, but I see it as an opportunity to get some 1 on 1 time with them.
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G
Thank you for your replies.

I think part of it goes along with the fact we are the only family their boys play with that has a single child. All their other friends have multiple children, so "B" always has someone else to play with when they get together.

Quote:
If you're asked why, you can always say truthfully that while the boys always do try to include B, sometimes having a tagalong sib interferes with their play, and it would be nice if sometimes they got to do that.
Thanks, this sounds great.

Quote:
I would also be honest perhaps with some of the behavior issues and ask for input on how to resolve situations where B will not listen to rules (wouldn't you do that for a child who didn't have any disabilities?). In short, I'd just talk about it normally, like you would for any other child, disability or not.
Part of the problem, too, is how I have seen the parents discipline "B". They don't. Example: Earlier this Summer, they stopped by for a few minutes and we were chatting in the driveway. "B" was in the car while Mom stood by the opened driver's door. "B" got out of the car, chewing gum. When Mom asked where he got it, he said he didn't know. She asked again. He said, "Purse." She told him the gum wasn't his to have, he shouldn't fib and to spit out the gum (into her outstretched hand) and to sit quietly. He raged and screamed, "Me want gum! Me want gum! Give!" and began repeatedly punching his Mom in the stomach and back. I was speechless. All she said was, "Please don't do that, it hurts Mommy." Then she smiled at me and shrugged. He continued to hit, but with less force, and then she said they'd better get going. They left, "B" still raging in the car (which he fought against entering).

jnet24 said:

Quote:
I would like to also point out that your post slightly bothers me. The words like throwing a tandrum when he doesn't get what his way and I do not tolerate tandrums really seems to set a negative tone towards B that I think your son is picking up on. I think it is important to teach our kids tolerance, and I think we need to model that for them.
Sorry it bothered you. But, throwing tantrums is NOT acceptable in our house, it never has been. I understand children get angry about something, but tossing things about or breaking them, screaming and pitching a fit are not the way we allow anger to be dealt with. By family OR friends. I certainly HOPE our son is understanding that this is negative behaviour, and it is not acceptable, in anyone.

This child is 9 years old in age but, as I said, much younger in behaviour. A 3 year old doesn't hit in the same way a 9 year old does. Nor, do they have as good an aim when it comes to throwing things. This child does have a major meltdown when he doesn't get his way or is told to stop a behaviour that is wrong or dangerous. Special needs or no, violent outbursts are NOT tolerated in our home, by persons of any age.

Ds doesn't want to hurt "B"'s feelings, he just doesn't want to play with him. The mental/behavioural age difference is too much. He doesn't have a choice when he visits their home. I think he should have a choice in his own home.

Ds has been more than tolerant of broken toys, dismantled models, torn pages in books and drool on just about anything "B" handles over the last couple of years.

Everyone has a breaking point and ds has reached his. He doesn't want to put up with the above-mentioned problems anymore.

I'll try the suggestions you have offered.

Ugh, none of this is easy....................
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L
Try an outing with the two boys that involves tickets? Like a movie or children's theater or amusement park, baseball game?
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Evergreen
What a tough situation you must be in! Honestly I would want to tell the parents that due to the destructive behavior of B you don't feel you can properly supervise him, but what if that means they are offended or worse, their older son can't come over anymore?

I think that while you sort out how to most appropriately handle the situation in order to get your son some time to play with his friend you can try stuff like going places that aren't your house. "We have an extra ticket to the movies and DS was wondering if "A" could join us today?" etc...
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E
Your only hope of solving this involved talking to the other mother. However, I would probably put the "blame" for not having B visit on myself and not on your DS. Something like "DS would like to have A come play this afternoon, but I cannot supervise B today. May A come?" Then maybe next time you can say "May A & B come to play this afternoon?" If you start getting very specific with the invitation, maybe that will work. If B still comes, then I guess you are stuck with explaining that your DS does not have much in common with B and would prefer to play with A alone sometimes.
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LynnS6
I think that issues of 'tagalong' siblings come up a lot and that while the younger boy's obvious developmental problems make these issues worse, it's essentially a problem of: The two older children get along and want to play without the other one. I'm dealing with the same issue (somewhere I've got a post on this page), only it's my younger child who's the 'tagalong'.

I would present this to the parents as a two-fold problem:
1. The older boys want to play alone and do things that the younger brother can't keep up with.
2. You can't adequately supervise the younger brother and are afraid for your things AND his safety (I would raise, neutrally, the make-up in the bathroom issue - what if that had been cleaning supplies?)

If the parents object, I would then find things out of the house for the boys to do. I might even gently point out that it's not fair to the 13 year old to always have to care for his younger brother.
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K
It could be that the other mother is so overwhelmed with the younger boy's behavioral and developmental problems that she is desperate for a break. I know that a good friend of mine who has a son with ADHD is always looking for someone to relieve her from the ongoing stress and work it takes to care for a differently-abled child.

I would try to have a heart-to-heart with the other mom. Ask her if she's feeling burned out or overwhelmed, or maybe just sad that her younger son doesn't have friends of his own. She may qualify for respite care, which you could help her organize if she's interested.
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L
Oh, that sounds like a hard situation.

I'm wondering, do the brothers get out of school at different times? Like here, a 13 yo would get out at about 2:30 whereas a 9 yo would be in school until 3:30. If this is the case, maybe you can have the 13 yo over right after school before his brother comes home? Then hopefully the brother would stay home.
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QueenOfTheMeadow
Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamsmom98 View Post
The 9 year old (I'll call him "B") is developmentally delayed. He acts more like a 3 year old many ways, younger in others. His speech is along the lines of "Me want dat!" and announcing in a loud voice, "Me need poopy!" "B" has no perception of interrupting other's speaking or obeying a warning (not to go or do something, or stopping what he already doing that is unacceptable). He throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way.


Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamsmom98 View Post
Thank you for your replies.

I think part of it goes along with the fact we are the only family their boys play with that has a single child. All their other friends have multiple children, so "B" always has someone else to play with when they get together.

Thanks, this sounds great.

Part of the problem, too, is how I have seen the parents discipline "B". They don't. Example: Earlier this Summer, they stopped by for a few minutes and we were chatting in the driveway. "B" was in the car while Mom stood by the opened driver's door. "B" got out of the car, chewing gum. When Mom asked where he got it, he said he didn't know. She asked again. He said, "Purse." She told him the gum wasn't his to have, he shouldn't fib and to spit out the gum (into her outstretched hand) and to sit quietly. He raged and screamed, "Me want gum! Me want gum! Give!" and began repeatedly punching his Mom in the stomach and back. I was speechless. All she said was, "Please don't do that, it hurts Mommy." Then she smiled at me and shrugged. He continued to hit, but with less force, and then she said they'd better get going. They left, "B" still raging in the car (which he fought against entering).

jnet24 said:

Sorry it bothered you. But, throwing tantrums is NOT acceptable in our house, it never has been. I understand children get angry about something, but tossing things about or breaking them, screaming and pitching a fit are not the way we allow anger to be dealt with. By family OR friends. I certainly HOPE our son is understanding that this is negative behaviour, and it is not acceptable, in anyone.

This child is 9 years old in age but, as I said, much younger in behaviour. A 3 year old doesn't hit in the same way a 9 year old does. Nor, do they have as good an aim when it comes to throwing things. This child does have a major meltdown when he doesn't get his way or is told to stop a behaviour that is wrong or dangerous. Special needs or no, violent outbursts are NOT tolerated in our home, by persons of any age.

Ds doesn't want to hurt "B"'s feelings, he just doesn't want to play with him. The mental/behavioural age difference is too much. He doesn't have a choice when he visits their home. I think he should have a choice in his own home.

Ds has been more than tolerant of broken toys, dismantled models, torn pages in books and drool on just about anything "B" handles over the last couple of years.

Everyone has a breaking point and ds has reached his. He doesn't want to put up with the above-mentioned problems anymore.

I'll try the suggestions you have offered.

Ugh, none of this is easy....................
Here is another possibility, besides the mother looking for free babysitting, that I haven't seen brought up yet as to why both children are always sent together. Children with special needs are often ostracised, teased, belittled and generally treated as leppers by many people in this society. That often leads to families that are very protective of each other. There is often a feeling that if you want one of us, you must accept all of us. I think sometimes this can be taken to extremes, but I do understand the feelings behind it.

I know you are not attacking the child, but you do say some very negative things in regards to the tantruming. The "we do not tolerate tantrums in this house" comes across as thinking that this child can indeed control himself and it's the parents problem of not disiplining them that it is the problem. Children with special needs often can not control their emotional responses to things whether their parents discipline them in a manner that you find appropriate of not. The fact that the mother was removing her child from a situation that was obviously upsetting to him may be the only way to deal with the situation until the child can be helped to calm down, which she probably couldn't do while she stood there talking to her. This is coming from a mother of a 10 year old with special needs who still has tantrums, and the child you are talking about seems to have much more significant needs than my son.

That being said, no, you should not have to have the younger sibling over all the time. I think addressing this issue with the parents is the ideal. Be honest about not being able to supervise him in a manner that will keep him safe and you don't want that to interfere with the friendship between the older children. But I think you can also use this as a way to teach your son compasion and understanding.
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K
i think that i could not have a kid in my house regularly whom my child did not get along with and did not want to play with and that i did not feel like i could 'supervise' adequately...(given that your own child and his friend don't require as close a level of supervision)

i don't think it is anything to apologize for, i think it is what you are comfortable with and not comfortable with and that is up to you to decide. it's tricky, given that this is your son's friend's sibling...and i can see how this is going to be hard to tackle with the other family, but as far as you and your son being able to set these boundaries - it seems obvious to me that you are not discriminating against this kid due to his special needs. thats all. no real advice from me!
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G
Quote:
It could be that the other mother is so overwhelmed with the younger boy's behavioral and developmental problems that she is desperate for a break. I know that a good friend of mine who has a son with ADHD is always looking for someone to relieve her from the ongoing stress and work it takes to care for a differently-abled child.

I would try to have a heart-to-heart with the other mom. Ask her if she's feeling burned out or overwhelmed, or maybe just sad that her younger son doesn't have friends of his own. She may qualify for respite care, which you could help her organize if she's interested.
The boys are in afterschool care everyday. Mom and Dad both work and make big $$$, so qualifying for respite care is certainly not an issue. The boys were both in daycare from the time they were adopted. Both parents were so pleased as they approached school-age as it would mean less money for daycare. The boys are both in organized sports, so when they aren't in afterschool care, they are in afterschool sports.

"B" does have friends of his own. Ds just doesn't want to be one of them.

Quote:
Be honest about not being able to supervise him in a manner that will keep him safe and you don't want that to interfere with the friendship between the older children.
This is the plan.


Quote:
But I think you can also use this as a way to teach your son compasion and understanding.
Trust me, ds is incredibly compassionate and understanding. He is dealing with two elderly grandparents, one of which (stroke survivor) sometimes doesn't even remember who he is, and she has always been his favorite grandparent. He treats her with such gentleness and patience. His favorite grandfather died this past year and he is so wonderful givng alternate explainations as to why this grandfather doesn't visit the grandmather (her stroke has affected her memory and she doesn't remember that my Dad is dead. We don't keep telling her the truth as it is like hearing the news for the first time all over again. Ds has more compassion than most fo the adults I know.
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QueenOfTheMeadow
Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamsmom98 View Post
The boys are in afterschool care everyday. Mom and Dad both work and make big $$$, so qualifying for respite care is certainly not an issue. The boys were both in daycare from the time they were adopted. Both parents were so pleased as they approached school-age as it would mean less money for daycare. The boys are both in organized sports, so when they aren't in afterschool care, they are in afterschool sports.

"B" does have friends of his own. Ds just doesn't want to be one of them.

This is the plan.


Trust me, ds is incredibly compassionate and understanding. He is dealing with two elderly grandparents, one of which (stroke survivor) sometimes doesn't even remember who he is, and she has always been his favorite grandparent. He treats her with such gentleness and patience. His favorite grandfather died this past year and he is so wonderful givng alternate explainations as to why this grandfather doesn't visit the grandmather (her stroke has affected her memory and she doesn't remember that my Dad is dead. We don't keep telling her the truth as it is like hearing the news for the first time all over again. Ds has more compassion than most fo the adults I know.
I'm so sorry if it came across as that I thought he wasn't compassionate. I didn't mean that at all. I just meant that sometimes it is harder for kids to see others who "should be" acting like them to understand why they are different. There are all sorts of different people and disabilities in the world and the more you are exposed to them directly the more you learn.
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M
Haven't read the others yet, but I would totally agree with you and I used to teach children with Sp. needs; meaning I'm not prejudiced.

When your child goes there, there's pretty much nothing you can do, and the only thing you could do to 'help' that is limit the visits there.
It's YOUR house though and I'd say to the mother that whilst in her house she gets to set the rules, ni your house you suggest that if she wants both children over to play at yours at the same time, she comes, too. If she doesn't accompany the other child then just one visits.

It's really not fair on the 2 that play together otherwise... as you said.
I really think that most people would say that, but I haven't read any yet!

good luck. I'll look at the others now!

OK, so I agree with 'Queen of the meadow', that some families want to all be 'all inclusive' and I see that. maybe a compromise is best here.not sure what yet, but if I think about one I'll pop back in.

PS, I taught special care special needs, so I'm coming from a knowledge base of near total dependancy here, plus my children have no real sp. needs, though our son has a speech delay; I'm sure there are some helpful comments in other posts.

... I always worry I'll offend someone, so.... here's hoping!
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