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I am a medical student and scientist with a background in women's health and prenatal education. I would like to invite any questions about vaccine biology and evidence cited by pro/anti vaccine groups. I'm willing to address any questions folks might have - I know it's a heated issue on both sides and for those of you looking for a science perspective, I would like to offer my time to answering any questions objectively and to the best of my ability citing all sources along the way. My training includes a degree in molecular biology, several years of laboratory work and post-graduate education in medicine.
 

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I appreciate your gentle approach to what seems like a genuine interest in discussing the matter, so here we go:

Since measles is the hot topic right now, I'm posting the package inserts for the MMR II and the ProQuad vaccines.

Both state that the vaccines haven't been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or the potential to impair fertility.

MMR II Insert. Pg 6 : http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

ProQuad insert Pg 16:
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/p/proquad/proquad_pi.pdf

How can we say that vaccine safety has been thoroughly tested?

It was pointed out earlier that 63% of the CA measles cases are in people over the age of 20. Do you think it's possible that vaccine immunity has waned, and that's why so many adults are infected?

Thanks!
 

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IOW (in other words) why have so many adults, who have most likely had a measles vaccine in childhood (based on their DOB and the induction of the measles vaccine) been infected in this latest outbreak.
 

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I am a medical student and scientist with a background in women's health and prenatal education. I would like to invite any questions about vaccine biology and evidence cited by pro/anti vaccine groups. I'm willing to address any questions folks might have - I know it's a heated issue on both sides and for those of you looking for a science perspective, I would like to offer my time to answering any questions objectively and to the best of my ability citing all sources along the way. My training includes a degree in molecular biology, several years of laboratory work and post-graduate education in medicine.
How many hours have you devoted to studying and understanding vaccines?
What are your thoughts on the fact the breast milk diminishes "vaccine efficiency"?
What are your thoughts on the benefit of bacteria from vagina birth?
Opinions on intravenous vitamin C for cancer treatment?
 

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Ah, come on. Where's your sense of adventure? The OP is polite and articulate, and we haven't had one of these threads in a long time . . . .
 

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Welcome to MDC, Science_Talk. I do have some vaccine-related questions.

1. In light of the serotype replacement issues from Prevnar-7 and now Prevnar 13, are there any current stats on the frequency of each reported bacterial meningitis strain? Or are these data hard to gather because not all cases undergo laboratory confirmation?

2. I had three questions that I recently posted in another thread. If you have responses, please feel free to post them there. http://www.mothering.com/forum/47-vaccinations/1475386-citations-please.html
 
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Ah, come on. Where's your sense of adventure? The OP is polite and articulate, and we haven't had one of these threads in a long time . . . .
I could have sworn this thread was initially in the INV forum so the why was primarily for "why post it in a support forum for not vaccinating".

But you are right...where are my manners?

Welcome science_mind!

Do you have children?
 

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Patience, my good man. This person may have a busy day job.

And yes, some of these questions do require some digging for answers, even for the experts.
 

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I do have questions, so many of them. I hope the new member can help me out on some of them.
Thanks for offering, I hope you will stay a while.
It's going to take a me a little while to gather up my questions. Please let us know you are here still before I do. Sometimes it takes me quite a while to write then edit a post (my husband laughs about this).
 

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I'm not the OP, but I'd like to hear more about a question posed in another vaccination forum here about reporting if your own child contracted measles. From what I gather from that thread was that nobody would.

Is it not important to have your child's steps traced and reported so that others can be alerted to the exposure? So that those who may have contracted it can be put on alert and then their steps traced also to prevent further exposures... so on and so forth?

What can you tell me that helps me to not worry about this? I personally have a child with no immunities towards measles, chickenpox, mumps and TB and cannot be vaccinated for them. In addition, he is on a lifetime of immunosuppression drugs which makes these viruses potentially life threatening. I know we're the exception to the rule, but considering there are a few more in the minority who need to avoid such viruses like us, is there anything you can think of to ease our worries, or is it just "too bad, so sad" for us?

I feel that it could be the least one could do to help the stop the spread.

I'm not looking for a fight, or a battle of sarcastic remarks please. I'm just a very concerned mother that's worried about known measles reports, and know unreported measles.

Thank you for your help in me understanding your reasonings and extra thanks if you put my mind at ease.
 

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I'm not the OP, but I'd like to hear more about a question posed in another vaccination forum here about reporting if your own child contracted measles. From what I gather from that thread was that nobody would.

Is it not important to have your child's steps traced and reported so that others can be alerted to the exposure? So that those who may have contracted it can be put on alert and then their steps traced also to prevent further exposures... so on and so forth?

What can you tell me that helps me to not worry about this? I personally have a child with no immunities towards measles, chickenpox, mumps and TB and cannot be vaccinated for them. In addition, he is on a lifetime of immunosuppression drugs which makes these viruses potentially life threatening. I know we're the exception to the rule, but considering there are a few more in the minority who need to avoid such viruses like us, is there anything you can think of to ease our worries, or is it just "too bad, so sad" for us?

I feel that it could be the least one could do to help the stop the spread.

I'm not looking for a fight, or a battle of sarcastic remarks please. I'm just a very concerned mother that's worried about known measles reports, and know unreported measles.

Thank you for your help in me understanding your reasonings and extra thanks if you put my mind at ease.
I think tracing back only brings blame games...if my child had measles today, I would not know where he/she got it from, and since they are not vaxed, the blame would fall on us.
This is fearporn, last year there were almost 700 reported cases of measles and there was not much on the news, currently we have over 2300 cases of chikungunya, which is far more dangerous that measles, and no one says anything, then we have the EV-d68 virus that have infected over 1200 people and killed 14 and again, no news about it.
 

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I'm not the OP, but I'd like to hear more about a question posed in another vaccination forum here about reporting if your own child contracted measles. From what I gather from that thread was that nobody would.

Is it not important to have your child's steps traced and reported so that others can be alerted to the exposure? So that those who may have contracted it can be put on alert and then their steps traced also to prevent further exposures... so on and so forth?

What can you tell me that helps me to not worry about this? I personally have a child with no immunities towards measles, chickenpox, mumps and TB and cannot be vaccinated for them. In addition, he is on a lifetime of immunosuppression drugs which makes these viruses potentially life threatening. I know we're the exception to the rule, but considering there are a few more in the minority who need to avoid such viruses like us, is there anything you can think of to ease our worries, or is it just "too bad, so sad" for us?

I feel that it could be the least one could do to help the stop the spread.

I'm not looking for a fight, or a battle of sarcastic remarks please. I'm just a very concerned mother that's worried about known measles reports, and know unreported measles.

Thank you for your help in me understanding your reasonings and extra thanks if you put my mind at ease.
First as many pointed out it's simply not required by law.
If you have no complications and need no medical intervention why clinically test? Without testing it's simply guessing and that doesn't mean it is.
If your child has an issues it will also be for non-vaccine diseases too, do you need those reported? Again each state makes their own laws regarding diseases.
I'm not sure knowing after the facts helps you in your case with your child.
Requiring others to be subjected to testing doesn't sit well with many. As you see PRO vaccers don't generally support titer testing so why make others need to report for you?
That's not snarky but the truth-IMO

Immunization does not equal immunity, few that vac care one bit about it.
I don't see PRO vaccers wanting to know immunity only vaccine records. No push for that regarding schools!
To me your question is mute.
I'm sure that is not what you want to hear but I would not ask you to do it or make your child under go a test to please me.
 

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What can you tell me that helps me to not worry about this? I personally have a child with no immunities towards measles, chickenpox, mumps and TB and cannot be vaccinated for them. In addition, he is on a lifetime of immunosuppression drugs which makes these viruses potentially life threatening. I know we're the exception to the rule, but considering there are a few more in the minority who need to avoid such viruses like us, is there anything you can think of to ease our worries, or is it just "too bad, so sad" for us?
.
Would immunoglobulin work with your child? If so, then I can see practical reasons why you would want to know where someone with measles had been. If not, then there is no practical reason, although it might ease your mind (or cause you extra worry!) If your son cannot receive immunoglobulin, then knowing you were at the same Walmart as a person who later developped measles will not do much good.

http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/immunoglobulins-normal-and-specific

One of the things you can do (and I am aware you are only one person) to encourage people to be more upfront about whether to report or confirm suspected measles would be to help create a more vaccine-choice friendly world. People talk about jailing non-vaxxers, removing their children, suing people with contagious VAD who are unimmunised, etc, etc. No one is going to want to report in this environment.
 

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I think tracing back only brings blame games...if my child had measles today, I would not know where he/she got it from, and since they are not vaxed, the blame would fall on us.
This is fearporn, last year there were almost 700 reported cases of measles and there was not much on the news, currently we have over 2300 cases of chikungunya, which is far more dangerous that measles, and no one says anything, then we have the EV-d68 virus that have infected over 1200 people and killed 14 and again, no news about it.
A blame game doesn't easy my worries though.

I worry about all the ickies, and do wish there was more reporting. That just makes my worry all the more intense. But just because X isn't reported shouldn't be a reason as to why Y and Z shouldn't be also.


The EV-d68 was reported on in my neck of the internets, and I followed that one closely.


First as many pointed out it's simply not required by law.
If you have no complications and need no medical intervention why clinically test? Without testing it's simply guessing and that doesn't mean it is.
I don't think it being required by law is either here nor there. I would also assume one could report measles without medical intervention, unless intervention is considered the same as an evaluation.

If your child has an issues it will also be for non-vaccine diseases too, do you need those reported? Again each state makes their own laws regarding diseases.
I would like them reported. The best I can do is follow what has been reported, like reports of D68 being in my state and in what proximity it is to me.

I'm not sure knowing after the facts helps you in your case with your child.
Well, if someone reported their case of measles and their steps were traced back, those who are unvaccinated can, hopefully, do the responsible thing and quarantine themselves to help stop the transmission. Said unknowingly exposed unvaccinated person could very well go about their life and travel to my local co-op where my son and I are shopping.

Requiring others to be subjected to testing doesn't sit well with many. As you see PRO vaccers don't generally support titer testing so why make others need to report for you?
That's not snarky but the truth-IMO
Snarky clarification appreciated, although I didn't get that vibe anyway. Thank you.

I know nothing about pro-vaccers being anti-titer testing. Of everybody I've spoken to, most are oblivious that vaccines could not take in the first place, let alone there being tests for it. After I mention this, they're generally concerned and agree that they'd be best off knowing what they're immune to and not.

I don't see this as a me issue, although in fairness, it is how I presented it. I see it as an issue many people may have to deal with, especially if there's others like my son who's vaccinations didn't take. They don't need to report to me, they should want to know for themselves. As an added bonus, they could do it in the general interest of social responsibility (I know we'll differ on that, but I really don't want to sidetrack from my original question if possible)

Immunization does not equal immunity, few that vac care one bit about it.
I don't see PRO vaccers wanting to know immunity only vaccine records. No push for that regarding schools!
To me your question is mute.
I'm sure that is not what you want to hear but I would not ask you to do it or make your child under go a test to please me.
And I do know that to be truth with my own experience. I don't think I agree that pro-vaccers are only interested in records... I believe they're just uninformed as to the possibilities of vaccinations not always taking like assumed. I would like to see this problem more known to everybody.

As for your last sentence, if you choose to not vaccinate, then I wouldn't see any reason for your children to be tested.

I do think we've gotten off point a bit. I want my mind put to ease as to how NOT reporting a case of measles doesn't put the general public at risk.
 

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I don't think it being required by law is either here nor there. I would also assume one could report measles without medical intervention, unless intervention is considered the same as an evaluation.
If, as one study demonstrated, 97% of physicians can't correctly diagnose measles why would you have faith in measles case reports from non-physicians? There are at least four other viruses that present similarly.
 

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Would immunoglobulin work with your child? If so, then I can see practical reasons why you would want to know where someone with measles had been. If not, then there is no practical reason, although it might ease your mind (or cause you extra worry!) If your son cannot receive immunoglobulin, then knowing you were at the same Walmart as a person who later developped measles will not do much good.

http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/immunoglobulins-normal-and-specific

One of the things you can do (and I am aware you are only one person) to encourage people to be more upfront about whether to report or confirm suspected measles would be to help create a more vaccine-choice friendly world. People talk about jailing non-vaxxers, removing their children, suing people with contagious VAD who are unimmunised, etc, etc. No one is going to want to report in this environment.
I did a quick Google search before seeing you gave me a link to read. I'll read it. The medication he is on is to suppress his immunities from attacking himself, and from the whole 2 minutes of reading stuff I didn't quite understand, my tentative answer is I have no effing clue, lol.

I do understand the heat ya'll are getting at the current moment, and I do not agree with all these crazy punishments. However, I would guess that stating that you'd hide a case of measles to anybody (or on this now highly cited message board), would only fuel that fire. You're now not only in trouble for choosing to not vaccinate, but now for aiding it's spread. At least that's how I see it.

I would hope that all his jailing talk is just stupid fear talk. I understand your concerns about it, but hiding such an infectious virus certainly can't help your case IMO.
 
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