[noah's mom]

Note: I'm cross-posting in Family Bed & Nighttime Parenting forum.

Here's the situation:
DH stays with our 14-month-old, cosleeping DS on Fridays (DH is off work that day). It has always been a struggle for DH to get DS down for naps when I'm not there, b/c DS generally nurses to sleep (or at least, prior to sleep - sometimes he'll fall asleep other ways after nursing, but it's pretty rare). Somehow they've always been able to figure it out. However, DS's latest "routine" with his daddy has recently changed - DH used to be able to walk around with DS for a few minutes and he would eventually just lay his head down on DH's shoulder and fall asleep. DH would then lay DS on the bed asleep, end of story. Lately DS has started to cry and squirm and reach for the bed and doesn't want to be walked around, period - fights it big time.

So today DH tried a new approach (I spoke to him from work and he gave me the story). When DS started to reach for our bed DH decided to just put him in bed and lie down next to him. At which point DS started crying hysterically. DH decided to give it 20 minutes and see what would happen. DS kept up the crying for about 15 minutes (with DH right next to him, offering backrubs, singing, etc...) - DS was still really upset but he wasn't trying to get off the bed, just rolling around and crying. Finally his cries wound down and he fell asleep. DH left the room and DS slept for the next hour and a half.

DH's opinion is that DS would have fallen asleep even faster, but probably had in his mind that if he cried loud/long enough I would magically appear and give him the boob (even though DS and I said goodbyes when I left for work this morning). Which I think is probably true.

My feelings are ambivalent - I hate the thought of DS crying like that (I've heard this particular cry, it's a recent "variation", sounds like someone is trying to kill him - but at least not a "hyperventilating" cry which I've also experienced and is even worse - but still completely breaks my heart

) but then I think, well, he's no longer an infant, and he wasn't left alone to cry, his daddy was right next to him on the bed the whole time. Maybe DS was just protesting not being able to fall asleep the way he wanted to - with the boob.

What do you mamas think? Have any of you had similar experiences with your DPs putting DCs down for naps when you're not able to be there? Is it always bad for a child to cry before sleep, no matter the age or situation? Or was this time simply an adjustment to daddy's way of doing things?

 

[lactivist]

I don't have answers but plan to watch this thread as I have a similar situation in that if my dh tries to put my 17 mo son to bed he does have to cry for at least 10 minutes first. My dh never leaves him and tries to soothe him the whole time but he won't go to sleep without crying. I feel your pain and am interested in thoughts on this matter too. Thanks for posting.
Wendi

 

[Marsupialmom]

Your son wasn't crying alone, that is the key your dh was still there to help he wasn't alone/abondend.

We can't always prevent it. My oldest dd had reflux. She cried asleep alot but never alone. Did it break my heart, yes but she learned that we might not be able to fix everything but we will always be there.

 

[Cullens_Girl]

It takes DH twice as long to put DS to bed... it's just the way it is. There are tears but DH is there the whole time trying to help him relax and fall asleep. He's not alone or scared just probably overtired and frustrated.

 

[Strong Mama]

I agree with marsupialmom. Sometimes they cry. If you are there, at least they arent alone. But it still sucks. ((HUGS)))

 

[wombatclay]

I replied over in Nighttime parenting, but...

Check out some of the ideas in the No Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers...I think 14 months is really the beginning of a lot of the "I don't want to sleep because the world is just so exciting and I'd rather be exploring!" phase.

You might be able to adapt some of the NCSS ideas to create a new naptime or evening routine since your little one has grown beyond your older ritual.

I think crying to sleep is never "good" for a child, but I think during the toddler years crying to sleep with a loving parent there soothing them isn't "bad" either. Toddlers still express themselves through crying and shouting, and now they're learning that the world doesn't always work the way they'd like it to. If they're safe, loved, lying next to a loving parent or care provider...well, you can't always stop the crying when they realize it's time to sleep for bit but I don't think it's doing any lasting damage!

Good luck mama!

 

[awnja]

I relate crying to stress and stress isn't good for little ones -- it hinders learning, which is important to me, personally. BUT stress is also a part of life and something that, ironically, we all need to *learn* to handle. We also need to learn how to settle for less than we sometimes want. I didn't start denying my dd "nursies" until she was verbal and I knew she could understand what was going on... but I don't think 14 months is too young. Once she understood and accepted her limits, she actually cried less, so I advise if your child is crying because of a new limit, just be as consistant as you can. This is reassuring to a child. If you are ambivalant, I think that's kind of scary for a kid because you're supposed to be in charge and they know it.

Julie

 

[ChristusG]

I think the key is that your DH was still in the room....talking to him, rubbing his back, etc. I hate the idea of a child crying alone in a room all by themselves, wondering where their mommy/daddy is. Your son was not alone. I think you have the right idea with the appraoch that you guys are taking.

 

[crayon]

if I put breeze to bed I have to de-latch her because she will not fall asleep nursing- and let her fuss for a few sec/min and I turn on my back and dont move and she chills out and goes to sleep- but I have DH put her to sleep almost all the time- she doesnt fuss for him for some reason- and he can get her to sleep in 5 min where if I try it takes me 30-45 min

 

[Periwinkle]

As someone who is adamantly anti-CIO for babies, I do think there is something that changes, very gradually, at some point during toddlerhood. Leaving a 2 month old baby to cry for any reason is unacceptable to me, but leaving a 2 year old who has had a very long day, is overtired and overstimulated, and just needs to go to bed but rocking/singing/etc. is only adding to the problem?

I have found when this is the case, toddlers sometimes need to blow off steam for a few moments then drop off to sleep. To me, it's the whole needs vs. wants dichotomy. For an infant, they are one in the same. But at some point during toddlerhood these diverge occasionally (and may become more frequent as they get older). As the parent, I know that what my 2 year old NEEDS is to be asleep about 2 hours ago. But they WANT to bounce off the walls in a state of uber- wide-eyed exhaustion. If at the end of half an hour of pulling out all my tricks, what works in this situation is letting the child fuss some in order to settle down to sleep.... nah, I don't lose sleep over this (sorry no pun intended).

 

[mezzaluna]

i love the idea that just being there for your child is good enough, but in our case if DS is crying that much there's really something he wants that we're not giving to him. we've tried seeing what happens if we just stay present with him but try to take away stimulation and see if he'll settle down. in our case he just cries and cries and escalates his cries.

our checklist when he's having trouble going to sleep...
-needs to go potty
-needs to be walked & sung to
-needs to nurse
-needs to eat a snack

sometimes it takes all 4 tactics to get him down

when he gets himself too worked up with crying he forgets how to tell us he needs to nurse or eat or go potty... so we have to soothe him in some way, find out what he needs, and then give it to him.

in your case, it sounds like your DS will actually relax eventually and go to sleep. i would chalk up the first incident to getting used to daddy's way of doing things... but see if it gets easier over time. if it's always 20 minutes of full-on crying then i would say it's just not working for him.

 

[Gigi2214]

noah's mom...
wow my eyes became all teary because I have been there many times. I also hate to see my kids cry especially when I was breastfeeding. It was such a painful time for me because when I had to start working they would do that same cry you are talking about. It was that same intense cry. I would cry myself while I was at work while my boobs leaked like crazy, my boobs were bursting out of my bra from being so huge and hard since I had stored up milk for 8-9 hrs. until I got home.

When I'd get home from work, no matter what my babies were doing.. I'd pick them up and give them some boobies because I knew that's what they wanted and they fell asleep on them and I would drown away crying because I'd missed them. This same thing happened when I had my daughter and son.
For as long as I was breastfeeding my kids only wanted me. If my poor hubby was around they would be in the exact same scenario as you DS.

I do beleive that when they are more attached to mom no matter what DH does it may take them longer to calm thehm down.
Maybe he can try to pick up DS rock him.. walk up and down with him.. sing to him.. sometimes..just laying down crying even though DH was there they feel helpless. Maybe the connection of DH cuddling would have made him feel better.

 

[katies_mama]

I responded more thoroughly on the parenting Xpost at http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=504213, but just to comment on a couple of things here too--

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigi2214 Maybe he can try to pick up DS rock him.. walk up and down with him.. sing to him.. sometimes..just laying down crying even though DH was there they feel helpless. Maybe the connection of DH cuddling would have made him feel better.

Gigi--she did say very specifically that her son fought hard when DH tried to walk and cuddle him. Do you think it is better to fight a child while walking/rocking, when they are clearly telling you they don't want this, than it is to stay next to them while they cry? I'm really interested in your answer, because I think a lot of parents do feel that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by awnja I relate crying to stress and stress isn't good for little ones -- it hinders learning, which is important to me, personally. BUT stress is also a part of life and something that, ironically, we all need to *learn* to handle. We also need to learn how to settle for less than we sometimes want. Julie

I agree with you on the fact that we need to learn to handle stress, and to settle for less than we want--but I disagree that crying, or small stress, is bad for little ones. Yes, we need to help them not overload, help them learn their own boundaries and ways of coping with emotion, but crying is not "bad" just because it is stressful.

Life with no stress, or no emotion, cannot be a very meaningful life.

 

[SamuraiEarthMama]

the solution we have is that dh (or one of my older dcs) will pop the 2-year-old into the stroller and walk around the block. if he's really tired, he'll conk out. otherwise, the toddler doesn't nap without boob.

oh, and he will also go to sleep in the car.

good luck, mama!

 

[Gigi2214]

Actually katies_mama I didn't realize she added that part in her story. I wrote that assuming he did not try that. I totally understand what you are saying, about picking them up and walking around when they do not want to. I have seen this a whole lot. Like with my mother in law, when she would try to put my kids to sleep and my baby would try to fight her off. Clearly, I knew that's not what my baby wanted as I would tell her... but you know your parents have more experience and feel as if they know better. I don't think that insisting on rocking them is the answer when they don't want you to.

As far as my experience whith my kids, they both love for me to walk them around the house and sing to them when rocking wouldn't work and that would calm them. Especially when my son had colicks.

 

[noah's mom]

Thanks for all the responses mamas!

To answer a couple of the questions/suggestions:
- DS won't fall asleep in sling or stroller anymore, he's just too interested in everything that's going on outside (and sling has never worked to put him to sleep walking around indoors)
- DS will fall asleep in the car if he's REALLY tired, but usually doesn't sleep as long as when he's in his own (that is, OUR) bed. And has never "survived" a transfer from car to bed without waking up and needing to start the process all over again.

So unfortunately I don't think either of those methods would be effective for DS.

I forgot to mention in my first post, DH told me the last 5 minutes of DS's crying were his "winding down" cry, sort of a low-level whine - and not the gasping kind of "recovery" cry that infants have when they've cried intensely, KWIM? So that helped me a little bit. I think the hardest part is not being able to be there when I know I can offer the *perfect* solution, and letting DS and DH work out their own way, trusting DH's instincts (b/c he has great instincts and is very gentle).

Enough explanations...on to the good news!

For DS's 2nd nap, DH waited until nothing else would keep DS happy (in other words, until he was practically falling asleep on his feet), then put him down for his nap - same routine, but he only cried for 2-3 minutes and then slept for 2 hours! So I think a PP's comment (I think over in Family Bed, where I also posted this update) about waiting a little longer to put him down was a good point - maybe DS wasn't tired enough to go to sleep easily the first time.

Anyway - we'll see how things go next Friday (DH's next day w/DS)!