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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I pump because I work p/t. I freeze my milk and currently have about 150 oz. in my freezer. I don't let it go over the 6 months, but I was wondering if other than the possibility of nipple confusion, is there another reason that feeding breastmilk from a bottle is not as good as feeding from the breast?<br>
(I have heard it benefits baby's jaw and mouth) but any others???
 

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I pumped with my first when I worked p/t, too.<br><br>
After freezing breastmilk, there are no longer live cells in the milk. Supposedly one's breastmilk changes with the age of the baby, so I wonder if this advantage is lost if you pump the milk at 4 months and feed it to the baby at 8 months? Additionally, the mother produces antibodies against foreign substances in her (and her baby's) environment, so this advantage would be lost if the milk is given to the baby if the environment has changed over time. Finally, while breastmilk from the breast comes in two forms: thirst-quenching foremilk and fatty hindmilk, expressed breastmilk is homogenous. There is some research suggesting that babies decide when they are full after they have had a certain amount of hindmilk. In theory, this ability may be diminished if the foremilk and hindmilk are mixed together.<br><br>
You mentioned some of the bottle issues like nipple confusion or preferences. There is an environmental cost to manufacturing and washing bottles and freezing milk. Furthermore, pumps, bottles, washing and freezing cost time and money. Disintegrating artificial nipples can fall apart and be accidentally ingested by the child (just keep an eye on them and make sure they're in good shape).<br><br>
There could be behavioral differences between nursing and feeding EBM from a bottle, but there doesn't need to be. Bottlefed babies can be held during all feedings just like breastfed babies (instead of bottle propping), and held in alternating right and left arms to promote equal eye development.
 

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I agree with the prior poster on the Changing in the live-cells and that some nutrition is lost and other points mentioned. I must say that in my opinion the skin to skin contact is something that is highly beneficial in an emotional and spiritual way. something that is not easily put into words but into feelings of the baby/child. getting their nutrition directly from mom, not an artificial nipple is foundational. What i mean is like if you compared orgasms that happen from someone you love as opposed to a mechanical object. or, like always eating the bread without ever experiencing the wonderful process that goes into its' makeing. does this make sense?<br>
laura
 

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I have read (in dr Newman's book I think <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"> ) that the best thing to give a baby is breast milk from the breast because that way, mom and babe share the same bacterias, ... Some bacterias may or may not be present in the breastmilk (I can't remember), but a lot of them are on the breast itself, on the skin.<br>
Maybe someone can find the exact quote, because I returned the book to the library last week...
 

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Because it stays good in the freezer for so long, you may want to save at least some of it to mix in with food once he starts solids. You can also give it in a cup instead of the usual water or juice when you get to the cup stage. No need to let it go to waste.
 

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I'm trying to remember back to what I read, but I do believe that some fats are lost if breastmilk is pumped directly into a plastic breastmilk storage bag. If it's pumped into a bottle and not a bag, less fats are lost (something about the storage method). It's not a significant amount, however, and it's still packed with all the benefits of milk from the breast.<br><br>
Even with a slight loss in fats and nutrients, breastmilk in a bottle is still MUCH better than formula. A very important point to remember, I think <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i'm concerned it's not the same, though...<br><br>
since i don't need to work outside the home (p/t but still)<br>
i am feeling like i shouldnt, and i should just give my baby the best...
 

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well I pumped for 12 months exclusively, and this is what I did: I never gave my baby frozen milk, I gave her what I just finished pumping most of the time, otherwise I would grab one from the fridge to give her. It stays good refrigerated for 5 to 7 days I think, and you dont experience the loss of things like you do when its frozen. Sure I wasted a lot, I froze a ton, but never ended up using it, it was just there for emergencies. I know there are benefits to skin to skin nursing, like I have heard if your baby has a cold or st, youre body will produce antibodies to that in the milk while you're nursing, and I supposse we missed out on that. I do realize that the foremilk and hindmilk were always mixed together, but imo, I felt like she was getting more fat that way, and i was happy with that.<br><br>
Give yourself some credit here! pumping is hard work mamas!!! Dont go thinking its not the best. Good gracious if I had gone off thinking that, where would my motivation to stick out pumping every 2 or 3 hours for months on end come from?
 

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I pumped for 5 1/2 weeks and it felt like an eternity. It is super-hard work. Definitely give yourselves credit. It is far better to pump than to give formula. The dedication it takes is extraordinary.<br><br>
However, I hear of folks pumping because they think it's just as good. It's not, as others have pointed out. This information needs to get out there. It was definitely a misconception I had in the beginning so I try to explain to my new mama friends what the benefits are of feeding at the breast.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Amanda, do you mind saying exactly why you don't think it is as good? Aside from the freezing issue, which can pretty easily be avoided? Or the issue of pumping into a bag and then tranferring to a bottle and in the process losing some of the fat, this can be remedied too, by pumping directly into the feeding container. I do understand the loss of skin to skin contact in terms of antibodies being produced by the mother, is this what you are referring too? See I would love to know more about this,and to know exactly what my baby did or did not miss out on. To me, it is a very depressing thought that I was wasting my time, or atleast not on the same level as one who fed from the breast. The only way I could keep myself going was to firmly believe that pumping was giving her the same nutrients. Now I know it is not the BEST solution simply bc of the logistics of it, it is much more difficult to keep up with, but I think more people should be encouraged to pump instead of not to pump. So many people think there are only 2 options out there when it comes to feeding their babies, if they can't or wont bf, they think they have to give formula, I would like it to be more mainstream knowledge that pumping is a real workable option if you believe in it enough. In fact, I have often thought about writing up a booklet or st, for lactation store at the hospital to give out for free. There is so much info about pumping exclusively that is not out there, like the need for a hospital grade pump, how to preserve the milk w/o losing nutrients ect. I have all the bfing books by Sears, by LLL ect, but I could never ewven find a chapter on pumping exclusively which is a whole other ballgame than occassional pumping. So in the beginning, I was really scrambling. I remeber finding a woman at my older dd's field day that also had exclusively pumped for 8 months, and she was such a lifeline for me.<br><br>
I dont think we should be afraid that people will turn down bfing and instead pump exclusively, it is sooo hard to do, the people who do it are super dedicated, and certainly dont need to hear that its not as good. This is just my opinion, and obviously I am very emotionally tied in. In the beginning I did post here,and ask if anyone knew about pumping being just as good as bfing, as long as certain precautions are taken to preserve the milk. I would love to read anything about it, if you know of anything.
 

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I work FT and pump and I realize that frozen EBM is not as good as fresh breastmilk from me. In these ways:<br><br>
1) Some of the fats do break down. Breastmilk contains enzymes that break down the fats and these go to work as soon as it's expressed.<br>
2) Since the foremilk and hindmilk are mixed, baby gets milk that's the same consistency... not thirst-quenching at the beginning and milk-coma-inducing creamy at the end.<br>
3) The live cells are damaged if not destroyed by the storage process. If she's getting the live cells at all, she's getting antibodies to things I was exposed to when the milk was pumped, not things in our systems today.<br>
4) It starts to taste funny the longer it's stored.<br><br>
However breastmilk in a bottle is still really good stuff. It's easy for her to digest, it still keeps her healthy, she likes the taste, and you all know the rest of the benefits... right mix of nutrients and vitamins and fats, prevents obesity and cancer and all sorts of childhood illnesses and you can go on forever. I don't need to repeat the benefits here since you all know them by heart by now <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> It's magical stuff.<br><br>
I don't think there's any scientific evidence to say how much the skin-to-skin contact matters in a baby's future development. DD is certainly thriving well on bottled breastmilk at daycare even though the milk delivery system is different.<br><br>
I agree with Elizabeth that EP'ing is something moms should hear more about if they have babies that for whatever reason will not latch on and nurse. It's a very good option - for some babies it is orders of magnitude better than FF'ing and only slightly less good than breastfeeding.<br><br>
I have never lost any sleep over giving DD EBM in a bottle... and like you Carmen, I don't have to work, but I choose to. My DD is getting the very best when she's with me and something almost-as-good when she's not with me. I'm OK with it. But this isn't about my feelings <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> It's about yours! You know by now that so much of mothering is about following your instincts and listening to your baby... what's yours telling you?
 

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according to unicef (i think it's unicef/WHO, but not exactly sure...) it goes like this:<br><br>
THE BEST is<br>
1)mother's milk from breastfeeding<br>
2)mother's milk from a bottle, cup, or other feeding device (ie. pumping)<br>
3)another mother's milk from a bottle, cup, or other device (ie. milk banks)<br>
4)formula (i happen to think a distinction should be made between formula from an SNS or formula from a bottle...)<br><br>
so although pumping isn't quite as good, for all the reasons others mentioned, it is FAR superior to using formula. i have total respect for anyone who is having problems breastfeeding, and rather than giving up, pumps for their babe. it has got to be hard work, and it is still very good for them!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
ok, what about if I use REFRIGERATED bm instead of frozen bm? any difference? should I start just putting it in the fridge (not the freezer) when i pump and using THAT one the next day vs. using the oldest one that's in the freezer?
 

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Two things I have read that might help-<br><br>
First is that its the babies saliva that lets the moms body know what the baby needs in what proportion, nutrient and antibody wise- so pumping without rubbing saliva onto nipple would maybe produce just a general purpose milk.<br><br>
Second is that there are trace amounts of a chemical in bottle nipples that can cause stomach cancer.
 

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There is lots of good info on this thread, however, I too am a working mom (no longer nursing) and nursed my 2 kids for a total of almost 7 years.<br><br>
They had bottles of EBM when I worked and full access to my breast on demand when I was home.<br><br>
Yes, from the breast is best, the freshest milk pumped is best, but freezing it does not destroy all antibodies or vitamins in the milk. It will be lesser but not a total waste. I would not be swayed to say never freeze your milk.<br><br>
I never used any formula while I worked and I kept at least 100 oz in the freezer at all times. I ended up using it all. I used the freshest milk first but alternated a few frozen bottles in as well.<br><br>
You say you work p/t and I'm assuming you nurse from the breast when your are home? Your doing a great job and your baby is getting adequate nutrition as well as antibodies.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Finally, while breastmilk from the breast comes in two forms: thirst-quenching foremilk and fatty hindmilk, expressed breastmilk is homogenous.</td>
</tr></table></div>
I don't think this is correct -- and I *know* it wasn't in my case. I pumped at work for over 12 months and I could always tell when my milk switched from foremilk to hindmilk while I was pumping. It went from thin and watery-looking to thick and opaque during the pumping session.<br><br>
I have read that if you are able to pump/store/freeze your milk in glass bottles (more expensive than bags or plastic bottles), it retains the most nutrients.<br><br>
It is true that your milk changes with your baby's age, but that does not mean that milk you pumped at 4 months is not good for your 8-month-old.<br><br>
Edited because I forgot to finish a sentence!
 

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I agree with morgansmom post. You do pump both fore and hind milk. If you let a bottle sit, you must swirl it because the cream (hind milk) floats to the top.<br><br><br>
It doesn't matter if the nutrients are different at 4 months and the baby gets the milk at 8 months. Eventually baby gets all nutrients and antibodies
 

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Wait a sec, the last two posters may have misunderstood one of the points I and others made earlier. To clarify:<br><br>
No matter whether baby is fed directly from the breast or EBM from a bottle s/he will get both hindmilk and foremilk. The difference is that when feeding from the breast baby gets the foremilk first and then the hindmilk. The components are separate. When fed from a bottle, the foremilk and hindmilk are necessarily mixed together. In both cases, all the fat is there, but the timing and manner in which the baby gets the fat is different.<br><br>
Is it important for the baby to get the foremilk first and hindmilk last? I don't think it has been adequately determined. It's not very high on my personal list of disadvantages, either, though I find it interesting. As I mentioned before, one researcher has suggested that the hindmilk acts as a trigger for the baby to know when to stop eating. I suppose this would mean that if the fm and hm were mixed together the baby could potentially miss out on the effects of the cue? What would that mean?<br><br>
Interestingly, the !Kung San people (Bushmen) BF so often (4x/hour) that their milk doesn't have time to separate into fore and hindmilk in their breast. So that's a whole different strategy there, the exact ramifications of which are unknown.
 
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