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Some people have different definitions and opinions. However, in this forum, that would not be considered an unassisted birth since she is a trained, paid professional that is there to help you with her experience.
 

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There was a thread that was removed regarding this issue awhile back, citing posts that violated the user agreement. We still do not have that thread back...so I don't know what happened. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/confused.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Confused">:
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>UmmBnB</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7926382"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Does it really matter? As long as you feel comfortable, secure and free who cares?</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:<br><br>
it matters only later, when you are telling the story and people want a definition. I had a paid attendant at one of mine, but wasn't "assisted" by them or their "presence and knowledge". The only place I have to put a sticker or qualifyer on it is here<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/duck.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Duck">:<br><br>
I hope you have a lovley birth
 

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technically a doula would be assisting you- paid or unpaid but she is not a medical professional - on the other hand areas of the country where mws are still unlicensed may doulas are mws---<br><br>
and DH really objects to the term unassisted because he was there and felt like he assisted --- some use the term freebirth and there are other terms as well ---- for the sake of this forum I think it is understood that you may have someone with you, just not a medical professional--<br><br><br>
I think that we have to be very careful with this thread or it will vanish too-
 

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does it get nasty? I never see them, or see them vanish! I know people can be passionate about it!!
 

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Yes -- UC is birth without medical intervention -- i.e., a mw or OB.
 

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I'm always too late to see the trouble too, and I'm so curious! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> I wish that thread would come back though.<br><br>
"Unassisted childbirth" is not the most useful term, because it's vague. But it's the one that has become customary to use for the community of women who birth without a person present as a medical professional or managing or guiding the birth. What can you do? At this point I'm not sure there's anything that can be done but to just deal with it. People like the term and use it. Whenever it's said about me out in general society (I don't use the term myself,) people know <i>exactly</i> what is meant, immediately. They're not thinking, hm, maybe she means she had a medical professional there but the medical professional didn't do anything. They know exactly what is meant. This specific definition of "unassisted" has become so customary that it's even filtered into the mainstream.<br><br>
There's another reason that I'd be opposed to adopting a broader definition of UC, and it's that a good amount of the things that I've said on this forum would no longer make any sense or would not be applicable. We really do need a mission statement for this forum (it is being worked on, so nobody start harassing the mods <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1">) that spells out what type of birth this forum is about.<br><br>
To get back to the OP, the most basic form of midwifery -- <i>just</i> being "with woman" and tending to her comfort -- is not at odds with what we're talking about on this forum, as long as the person doing that is not there to impart her "childbirth wisdom" ("this position might be helpful," etc.) and is also not there specifically for her ability to help medically should need arise.
 

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I would say that anytime you PAY someone, you have just BOUGHT assistance in some form.<br><br>
When you pay for something there is both a legitimate and a <b>psychological expectation</b> of delivery of assistance/goods/service of some sort -- an implied contract.<br><br>
HOWEVER, whatever that assistance/goods/service means to you, that is to say to what degree, is your business only and let no one else judge you for it.<br><br>
But that's me being very <i>technical.</i> Like they said, there was a discussion about this before that went *poof* in the night.
 

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Having a doula would not FEEL like a UC *to me*. I don't think it's useful to get hung up on definitions, though. To some, UC means all alone. To some, it means no medical attendant (OB, midwife). To some, it means only you and your partner or immediately family. Really, it is what it is to you.
 

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I too agree that I'd prefer separate words to define the various birthing options. It would be nice if there was a word to define birth attended by a midwife, birth attended by a paid doula (vs just a supportive friend), and birth without medical attendants. And by the way, I've seen plenty of doulas with a midwifery mindset.<br><br>
But as FLB said, unassisted birth is out there now, and the birthing community at large thinks of it as birth without any hired birth professionals.<br><br>
Something that always comes up in my mind is (and this is not said in a sarcastic tone): why would a woman who has hired a midwife or doula feel she wants her birth to be called unassisted by others? What is she trying to communicate to the outside world? Could she not say that she had an empowered or uninhibited birth with a paid attendant present?<br><br>
When I call my births unassisted, and when I am communicating with others, I want it to be known that I had no paid birth professionals present. The reason is because I want people to understand that birth is not only possible this way, but safe and pleasuable. Some women have never heard of birth this way, or for some that have, they've never considered that an intelligent, respectable member of their community might choose it. Once they learn about my experiences, it might broaden their view....they become more educated on unassisted birth. And then it opens up a freedom and a new thought process they have never know.<br><br>
I want women to be truly free to choose. I cannot say how many hundreds of times I hear......but my midwife thinks this, or my midwife says that, or my midwife says I have to do this, or I can't do this because it's against my midwife's practice, or my baby's breech now I have to have a c section....I think you get the picture. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
I guess I want women to know that birthing without a paid birth professional is actually what happens naturally. It is what would automatically happen. And, it is a healthy viable option. When I use the word unassisted, I can communicate that.
 

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I hate labels. hate hate hate<br><br>
I don't call myself "AP" because I don't want to feel like I have to agree with everything AP. I would stop calling my last birth a UC if I felt someone didnt agree with that. It doesnt really matter to me.<br><br>
I didn't have anyone at my last birth other than my DH. BUT, I had originally wanted a doula there. I didn't want her there to tell me how to cut the cord, or to watch for PPH, or to check my heartbeat or how far along I was etc. Not to make myself sound pathetic (although in this situation it really sounded that way! lol) but I just wanted another female with me, a person that would hold my hand, and get me a drink, massage my feet, walk arm and arm with me down the road through my contractions, and just "be there" for me. Did it have to be a doula? absolutely not. It could have been anyone else who was comfortable with my birth choice enough to be a positive part of the experience. (its important to me when I am in labor to keep negative energy away) But the blunt thing is... I have nobody. I have lived in SC for 3 years now and my only friend is my husband. I'm not very social, and I don't usually mind it, except when I am pregnant and wishing I could have femenine energy around me for my birth. (I think I would pay a group of women to throw me a blessingway and pretend to be happy for my upcoming birth too... but I'm pathetic, as I mentioned <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> )<br><br>
I don't think it is a medical "thing" to want someone to hold your hand, and I really cant imagine there are all that many people that would feel comfortable being invited to an unmedicalized birth. Everyone in my life, other than my husband, is of the opinion that birth is a medical emergency that we must somehow survive with the aid of modern medicine. I was extremely lucky that my DH stepped up to the plate and was able to be a perfect "birth assistant" for me during labor. I honestly thought he was going to freak out and run off when things got tough. I don't feel that I need physical help during labor, but I don't think I could have made it without the .... emotional assistance he (or any birth positive person that I jived with) could have given me. My body will do what it is supposed to, and I know what to look out for, incase it goes awry. But keeping the emotional demons at bay, and remembering to stay focused and think positively... that, I sometimes need help with.<br><br>
Maybe there should be a new job category... "Birth Friend" <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Hi, everyone <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wave.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wave"> If there's ever a question about a removed thread, please contact me via PM. There are a variety of <a href="http://www.mothering.com/mdc/mdc_useragreement.html" target="_blank">UA</a> reasons that threads are removed but aren't returned to the forum. Our goal is to try and return threads whenever possible.<br><br>
I'm always happy to answer questions via PM. Thanks for your understanding and cooperation <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I ask because up until now I had assumed it was simply no MW or OB present, and after a convo elsewhere, I suddenly realise people have varied opinions on what UC or freebirth actually is, and wondered what this group thought, as I consider y'all to be probably the most clued in lot I have come across. I did not know it was a controversial question, so i apologise, and thanks for answering. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
I guess as with everything in life, when you get in to the nitty gritty, there are many variations in opinion. I suppose in the end it is something only you can decide for yourself.. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">
 
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