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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I went to a new doc yesterday. This is the 2nd visit. I'd hoped she'd be better than the last one, who told me (when dd was ~4 mos) that it didn't matter if dd cried while I took a shower or did stuff for myself, and that in fact, there was a whole sleep prgram built around letting babies cry, started by a Dr. Ferber.... (picture look of disbelief!)<br><br>
Ok, so new doc. She bf her fids for 2 years. She tried Ferber, but it didn't work, so she doesn't recommend it. Ok, not too bad, I guess. Here's some of the things she told me at dd's one year checkup that go against other information I've gotten from LLL and Publice Health:<br>
- Abby is nursing too much, I should try to encourage her to be more independent (she already plays on her own for up to 45 mins sometimes), and give her a cup of cow's milk at meals. The cup will help with independence. She nurses very frequently, sometimes every 45 mins, but usually it's short. Instead of nursing each time she asks, I should offer cuddles instead. SOunds like she's telling me to wean. When her "bf for 2 yrs" kids were a yr, she was back at work, and they nursed 2-3 times a day. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/confused.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Confused">:<br><br>
- She also said that if we want to get pg again, I should wean, because dd is nursing like a newborn (this could be true), and it would be too taxing on my system. There'd be nothing left for me. She says I'm already being deprived of iron, and it would be worse if pg. I told her I knew some women in my LLL group who were pg and bf, and she made a remark about some LLL moms being fanatical. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/jaw.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="dropjaw"><br><br>
- DD nursed twice during our 20 min appt. for about a min each time. I don't hesitate to pop her on whenever she tugs at my shirt. That's how she tells me. The doc seemed concerned when I said she's on "some solids" because she should be on "everything" now. I'm wondering if dd is getting enough iron, she doesn't like to eat much infant cereal. I don't push it because I read in Dr. Newman's book that it was invented to make up for inadequate formula, and at LLL they said that bm had more absorbable iron anyway.<br>
DH says I AM fanatical, and that I should stop trying to find a doc who agrees with me on everything. I just want someone who I can trust not to give me misinformation. This doc did do ok with the vax thing. I told her we were delaying until I had more info, and all she said was that she was for vax. Also, i couldn't have gotten it yesterday, because dd doesn't turn one till thursday, and they won't do it before her 1 yr. birthday. Somehow, she magically becomes able to handle it when the clock strikes midnight?<br><br>
So, my point/question is my doc has me doubting these things. I keep wondering if she's right about any of it. I want to make sure I do what's best for Abby. Don't we all? But I also know that docs can be misinformed. Where can I find the truth?<br>
There's one more doc at that clinic I want to try, one of my fellow LLL "fanatics" recommended her.<br><br>
Thanks for listening.
 

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Hi Pam -<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br>
Good for you for searching for a doctor that supports your beliefs. Not enough of us do this (me included!) and so we either go on taking the sometimes condescending and often downright ignorant comments from our docs and throwing them away, yet stressing the entire time, or caving to the pressure and doing things we don't necessarily feel are right. This isn't what a patient-doctor relationship should be. It can be a very intimate, supportive, nurturing relationship given the right individuals.<br><br>
My advice is to go with your instincts. DD is a year and at a year they are still so dependent on you, which means for some kids, still so dependent on nursing, too. BM is still the best food for your child, and introduction of solids is still largely a developmental issue rather than a nutritional issue at this point.<br><br>
That said, I would continue to offer whatever solids you feel comfortable with AND continue the nursing relationship in a way that is best for you and DD. FWIW, my DD never did like the boxed infant cereal and I ended up making her infant cereal from ground brown rice. If you are interested in looking into making your own baby and toddler foods, I used "Super Baby Food" by Ruth Yaron as my guide.
 

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There are a lot of questions, I'll give it a shot.<br><br>
It is very common for children who are not discouraged from nursing to nurse as frequentily at 3 or 4 years as at 6 months. I know both of my boys still nurse every hour or 2 and they are 2 1/2 and 4 <a href="http://www.prairienet.org/laleche/dettwyler.html" target="_blank">Dettwyler's thoughts on breastfeeding</a><br>
Some quotes from her site-<br>
-From the composition of human milk, it is clear that human babies are designed to nurse several times an hour, around the clock.<br>
-Interesting, among the Gainj, the children do not slow down or taper off the frequency of their nursing as they get older. I don't have the article here in front of me, but the figures for nursing frequency are basically unchanged up through the third year.<br>
-I would say that other than "very frequently day and night" that you absolutely cannot make a general statement about nursing frequency for human babies that would fit all or even most of them.<br>
-The expected pattern is for mother and child to sleep together, and for child to be able to nurse whenever they want during the night. Normal, healthy, breastfed and co-sleeping children do not sleep "through the night" (say 7-9 hours at a stretch) until they are 3-4 years old, and no longer need night nursing. I repeat -- this is NORMAL and HEALTHY.<br><br><br>
If you are having periods, then your body is probably getting enough nutrients to grow another child, if it wasn't, breastfeeding is a much better form of birth control. And obviously I nursed through pregnancy. And like I have said before, I know of no one baby, toddler, or mom who has been harmed by tandem nursing- not one study and not one story (does anyone else?)<br><br>
I don't think that your doctor has to agree about your parenting practices, but I do think the vac issue could be a problem. I just vote for no doctor. At least we never go.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue">
 

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....the best I've read (of alot) is Jamie Murphy's book "What Every Parent Should Know About Childhood Immunization"<br><br>
My son is 19 months and breastfeeding like a fiend--- 36" and 32 pounds-- all lean.<br><br>
Come over to Health and Healing to my "Natural Nutrition Project" where you'll get the full story and the possibility of fortifying yourself with organic fresh juices to get more of the minerals you need for tandem nursing.<br><br>
I am convinced my wife will need more nutritional help to be pregnant and nursing my boy, who I think will continue through the taste change in the milk that they all talk about--- he eats EVERYTHING-- I don't see a little taste change making a difference.<br><br><br>
Ray<br><br>
P.S. the most significant aspect of this situation is that my son at 18 months was bigger than 3 year olds, which means that he is growing at Twice the rate, meaning that he is taking nutrients from my wife at twice the rate.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Abby is nursing too much</td>
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There is no such thing as nursing too much. When a baby is allowed free access to the breast they can change the way they suck to get what they need. If they suck in one way they get fattier milk when they are hungry, more watery milk when they are thirsty. And they can comfort nurse and may get no milk at all.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I should try to encourage her to be more independent (she already plays on her own for up to 45 mins sometimes), and give her a cup of cow's milk at meals. The cup will help with independence. She nurses very frequently, sometimes every 45 mins, but usually it's short. Instead of nursing each time she asks, I should offer cuddles instead. SOunds like she's telling me to wean.</td>
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Yes she is telling you to wean, and my question is WHY?<br><br><b>she made a remark about some LLL moms being fanatical.</b><br><br>
I would never see such a ped. again, but I understand it may be hard to find the perfect ped.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">DD nursed twice during our 20 min appt. for about a min each time. I don't hesitate to pop her on whenever she tugs at my shirt. That's how she tells me.</td>
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GOOD!!!! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br>
I would have a serious talk with dh calling you fanatical. That is NOT cool. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> He can disagree with you without calling you names. You deserve respect. That makes me even sadder than the doc.<br><br>
Link about nursing past one:<br><a href="http://mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86498" target="_blank">http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...threadid=86498</a><br><a href="http://www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/ebf-benefits.html" target="_blank">http://www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/ebf-benefits.html</a><br><a href="http://www.breastfeeding.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000102" target="_blank">http://www.breastfeeding.com/cgi-bin...c;f=3;t=000102</a>
 

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I don't have much to add to what the others said. Our doctor (whom I like a lot most of the time) is starting to get little disapproving looks about my 15 month old "still" nursing. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes">: I plan to just ignore her on this issue. We have built up a good rapport over the years, so I think she will just drop it when she sees that I don't plan to wean any time soon. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"><br><br>
I *can* tell you that the refusal of vaccines before the first birthday has nothing to do with the child being able to "handle it". Most likely, it's because your insurance company won't cover it until then. We have chosen to vax and must schedule our well-child visits according to the insurance company's schedule. It's a pain, but like so much in medicine today, it's not the doctor's call. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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The way that any two women nurse until two will not necessarily be the same, especially if their circumstances are different.<br><br>
If You are not bothered by the amount Your child nurses, then it's not up to the doc to tell you how you "should" nurse her.<br><br>
You are not a fanatic. Parenting differently from the commerce driven mainstream is not the definition of fanatic, at least not in any dictionary I've ever read.
 

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the only person who can decide if your child is nursing too much is you--if you're ok with the amount she nurses, then rest assured she's getting the very best nutrition every time she nurses. Good for you for meeting all of your daughter's needs so easily!<br>
I happen to be a fanatical LLL'er, who nursed my DD throughout my pregnancy with DS, and I not only had the highest hemoglobin levels my midwife had ever seen (genetics and cheeseburger cravings) but gave birth to a strapping young lad of 9 lbs. 2 oz. Still nursing both kids (2 and 4, now) can be taxing at times, but everytime my DD#1 gets a nice big letdown I'm glad she's still receiving this "white gold".<br>
On the subject of iron, i've known a lot of kids who are "borderline anemic" around one year of age, and I tend to think there must be a biological reason for this. My own daughter had dark circles under her eyes around that age, but my doctor said they weren't dark enough to warrant a blood test, when she had no other symptoms of anemia. She grew out of it and shows no other signs. You could introduce iron-rich foods or give a little liquid iron supplement if you're suspicious of iron deficiency, but yes, the iron in breastmilk is far better than any other source of iron. Cow's milk, on the other hand, can inhibit the absorption of iron, and is totally uneccessary and possibly even allergenic at that age. I gave my kids water or juicy water with meals, water between meals and all the breastmilk they wanted, and added soy milk as an option when my daughter was about 15 months or so.<br>
I noticed you're in Canada as well--does your province cover naturopaths? I have a great GP, but I'd like to go to a NP for general health issues like nutrition and wellness.
 

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I just wanted to chime in because sometimes I would have doubts about breastfeeding too - when seemingly the whole world or people supposedly "in the know" would discourage it. But then I thought how ALL mammals nurse their young and how my lactating breasts must be there for a reason!! That always got me back on track ... and ds is "still" nursing at nearly 4 years<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I just wanted to thank everyone for encouraging me in this. The doc is a family doc, not a ped, so I might try that avenue next. I'm pretty sure if naturopathy was covered here in Nova Scotia, T'd have heard about it. If only...<br><br>
Thanks again everyone
 

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<a href="http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/iron.html" target="_blank">http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/iron.html</a> - Cached<br><br>
Here's a link about iron and breastmilk. It should clear up any questions you might have.<br><br><br>
As for breastfeeding while preg, i successfully did so in my second pregnancy (healthy newborn from that), and i'm preg again with no problems so far nursing two toddlers.<br><br>
Doctors should just stick to diagnosis, not giving unwelcome advice on parenting.
 

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First, I've never had a doctor that I've agreed with 100% and I think that's mainly because I don't always agree with the medical profession as a whole (but that's another topic). I recently switched to an osteopathic doctor (can prescribe meds if necessary, but takes a holistic approach to health). I've only seen him once, as a get-to-know-you meeting, since I haven't been ill since switching. As far as doctors go, I think he'll be more in line with my beliefs. He does see infants and children, but I haven't switched DD yet, although I'm considering it. DD was with me at my appointment and I nursed her in front of him. He was very supportive of extended BF. Have you considered looking into taking DD to a doctor like this?
 

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I know a lot of people on this board are much more knowledgeable about breastfeeding than I am so I will just comment about the cup drinking. As a former speech therapist I agree with the doctor about cup drinking to a degree. I wouldn't say that it needs to be cow's milk, but that practice drinking from a valveless sippy cup or an open cup is an excellent thing for a toddler to practice to help with oral motor skills and development of speech skills.<br><br>
LLL is a good source to find a good doctor. I tried to find a breastfeeding friendly OB and had a hard time doing it. A local doula told me the name of my current doctor and I am so pleased! One OB told me to wean for the health of the baby and myself and the other told me that it was great that I was still nursing. I called around to several doctors and one told me that I wouldn't find a doctor that said breastfeeding during pregnancy was okay. My son has weaned now though. He was a big nurser until solid food came around. He loves to eat! My milk went away during pregnancy and he nursed for comfort for a little while before he stopped all together.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
One of the moms from my LLL goes to the same clinic as I do, and she gave me the name of a doc who will think it's great that I am still bf. I think I'll try her.<br><br>
I'm also trying to convince my dh of the merits of EN. He's ok with it now, but he's not sure he'll be comfortable with it in a year or two (or more), and he's not sure the awkwardness is worth what he perceives as lesser benefits to our child at the time.
 

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P_and_A<br><br>
I tried when my ds was a baby to convince dh of all the reasons to EN and none of the info did any good. However, now that ds is 35 months and "still" nursing, dh is a breastfeeding advocate. He even made a webpage about it:<br><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion2/somasoul" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion2/somasoul</a> Click on the boobies link to the left.<br><br>
Seeing that ds could continue nursing and still be a "normal" little boy seemed to help my dh.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><i>Originally posted by Pam_and_Abigail</i><br>
Abby is nursing too much, I should try to encourage her to be more independent (she already plays on her own for up to 45 mins sometimes), and give her a cup of cow's milk at meals. The cup will help with independence. She nurses very frequently, sometimes every 45 mins, but usually it's short. Instead of nursing each time she asks, I should offer cuddles instead. SOunds like she's telling me to wean. When her "bf for 2 yrs" kids were a yr, she was back at work, and they nursed 2-3 times a day. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/confused.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Confused">:</td>
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Your dr is giving her opinion, not backed up by scientific research. Ask her to provide refs, (she won't be able to) then print off scientific research (not fanatical rantings) from kellymom.com and/or lalecheleague.org and give her your own. Or fire her, and send her the refs, when you tell her why she is fired.<br><br>
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">She also said that if we want to get pg again, I should wean, because dd is nursing like a newborn (this could be true), and it would be too taxing on my system. There'd be nothing left for me. She says I'm already being deprived of iron, and it would be worse if pg.</td>
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If you are not ovualting and want to get pg <b>right now</b> (and you don't say you do!), a 6 hour stretch of not nursing (NOT fully weaning) may be what it takes to get your period back. That said, most EBF moms get their periods back at 14-18 mos, even when nursing freq all day and co-sleeping and feeding several times in the night.<br><br>
Bfing does not deprive your body of iron. She could not be more wrong. Menstruating can cause anemia. Artificially feeding moms with new babies and menstrual cycles are at risk for anemia, which can interfere with their health and ability to parent.<br><br>
You and your toddler can be checked for anemia, if you are concerned about it. Bfed babies are rarely anemic.<br><br><a href="http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/iron.html" target="_blank">http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/iron.html</a><br><br>
Nursing during pregnancy is not depleting to your system. As your pregnancy goes on, your milk supply naturally decreases, so more of your nutrition goes to the fetus, instead of to making milk. Of course you would make sure to eat a great diet of whole foods, maybe take a vit/min supplement when pg.<br><br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I told her I knew some women in my LLL group who were pg and bf, and she made a remark about some LLL moms being fanatical.</td>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/jaw.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="dropjaw"><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">The doc seemed concerned when I said she's on "some solids" because she should be on "everything" now.</td>
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Um, what adult is on " everything?" What a silly comment.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I'm wondering if dd is getting enough iron, she doesn't like to eat much infant cereal. I don't push it because I read in Dr. Newman's book that it was invented to make up for inadequate formula, and at LLL they said that bm had more absorbable iron anyway.</td>
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One year olds do not need baby cereal. They have teeth. They have hands to feed themselves. They can eat real food from your table. They do not need artificial iron unless anemic, and maybe not even then.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><i>Originally posted by gigglesgalore</i><br><b>First, I've never had a doctor that I've agreed with 100% and I think that's mainly because I don't always agree with the medical profession as a whole (but that's another topic). I recently switched to an osteopathic doctor (can prescribe meds if necessary, but takes a holistic approach to health). I've only seen him once, as a get-to-know-you meeting, since I haven't been ill since switching. As far as doctors go, I think he'll be more in line with my beliefs. He does see infants and children, but I haven't switched DD yet, although I'm considering it. DD was with me at my appointment and I nursed her in front of him. He was very supportive of extended BF. Have you considered looking into taking DD to a doctor like this?</b></td>
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Oh how I wish that was always the case. I went to an osteopath, hoping I would recieve this kind of care. I thought I was dying from masititis, so it was the first time I actually met him. (Nothing like flashing a man the first time you meet <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"> ) He looked at my breast, told me to start using formula, pump and dump if I wanted to keep nursing. Formula is just as good as breastfeeding, you dont want the baby to get infected milk or the super strong antibiotics I am going to give you. I asked him what would happen if I kept nursing...he turned around and looked at me with two heads...He couldnt believe that I questioned his godly advice. He lectured me about going AMA...i nodded, went home, got my antbx, called the LLL, they told me it was fine, and continued nursing ds to keep infected side empty. I never went back...
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I told her we were delaying until I had more info, and all she said was that she was for vax. Also, i couldn't have gotten it yesterday, because dd doesn't turn one till thursday, and they won't do it before her 1 yr. birthday. Somehow, she magically becomes able to handle it when the clock strikes midnight?</td>
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New here...hope you don't mind me adding my random comment, but about the shots....the reason it is 1yr or over is for school and daycare reasons.<br><br>
Oh and I would try to see the dr your LLL friend recommended next time.<br><br>
Rebecca
 
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