[Lupena]

My ( just turned ) 3 year old son is displaying a lot of aggression/ jealously toward my husband. Specifically my sweet wonderfully gentle boy - who never hits me - has begun hitting him constantly when I am not present- out of the house, in other room etc.- hard. Lots of yelling too. He ( DS ) doesn't much like us hugging/touching either, it often infuriates him.

He hits, kicks and throws books ( hard, and accurately...) at my husband ( and to a lesser extent at DH's mum, who I saw once carry off to his room for a time out... I was stunned, DH has since talked to her ) and has been yelling a lot. He has even begun to yell with me, clenching his little fists and making angry faces.

He does not show aggression towards other kids unless they start to yell, in which case, he starts to get all wound up, making little 'huffing' noises- thinking they are yelling at him. He has hit on these occasions -softly, not how he hits his Dad- once or twice. Generally though, even if he gets knocked down, he will not respond aggressively.

I notice the smallest elevation of voice sets him off. Even if I am having a discussion, not an argument, with someone and he senses ( indignation etc.) in my voice, he yells at the person I am taking to, and gets quite angry.

I need help. I have not developed strategies for dealing with this! I never had to. He has even started to threaten me with held up hands. It is so depressing to see him go from being such a gentle soul to being so mad....( still mostly sweet and gentle with me...)

I have told DH to pick him up and hold him and explain to him he can't use his hands that way - firmly- but I think in most cases he just bears it until he has to leave the room. He gets angry after being hit 20 times. This happens on one of the three evenings that I am working, for 5 hours at a time usually.

Sorry, this is long- two questions for any lovely person who can offer insight- The passive approach 'letting' him hit him ( what he normally does, along with the dreaded 'don't' or " Stop hitting Daddy..") has obviously not worked for DH and is not effective.It usually happens when he is tired as he REFUSES to sleep or even nap without me, and goes to bed at around 11:00. ( I have tried since he was a bab to put him down earlier, but it only results in a three hour bedtime ritual and a " Momma let's get up..!" )

Is removing oneself- the adult going into another room - as damaging to a child as a 'time out?' I figured it would be better than getting angry ( there has been a bum-tap) while explaining to DS that "daddy will come out when you are ready to be gentle and feel better.." Already I figure that is wrong, but DH cannot seem to stop him from hitting. I am close to quitting work over this, it troubles me so much. ( not that I want to be working anyway and DS knows this... )

Thank you so much for any advice....

 

[Carlyle]

I do this when my dd is being violent with me and won't stop after I have asked her and/or tried to hold her in a way that keeps me from getting hurt. I think it's a healthy thing to teach them that you are going to take care of yourself...even if that means leaving the room. You'll come out when they're ready to be gentle with you. Yes, she screams and cries, but really I'm not willing to be hit/kicked/bitten/what have you, and I think it's fine to teach her that I will stand up for myself. I would want her to do the same if someone was hitting her and wouldn't stop if she asked them.

ETA: the book "Becoming the Parent You Want to Be" had a section on this...can't remember what she wrote though. Maybe someone else will! One thing she suggested was to have snuggle time with all THREE of you, where you make your ds and dh a part of the snuggle at the same time. So that he connects with the two of you as a team, and feels part of the team. Or something like that. There was more...anyone?

 

[almama]

We're using a great series of books now by Dawn Huebner, all based on cognitive behaviorial therapy. The titles are like: What to do when your Temper Flares, What to do when you get the Grumbles.

Anyway, great techniques there, but maybe a little young for your boy to do the books.

"Time out" - I think it is hard when it is punitive, but as a chance to "restore power" they are amazing. I need them, the kids need them, the dog needs them. No one in our house handles being in a full on conflict well and being kept there.

The books I suggested say, if you are too angry to try the calm down techniques, you need to make your brain go flat first. Do something completely different, then talk and deal with with it. "Doing something different" to me is often a time to read, walk, listen to music - different than time out.

A storyteller I just spoke to brought up how all the superheroes need to take a break before they can change from their everyday personas.

Telling a child he is loved, but you need to get your power back, is not wrong.

 

[Lupena]

Wow, some great info... I somehow thought it might be alienating, even if you talked while it went on etc.

I love the idea of restoring power, and true it is a case where he has to remove himself to avoid injury. But such disparate behaviour between the way he acts with us ( mum and dad ) is hard to figure out. At least when its this dramatic.

 

[EdnaMarie]

Well, first of all, I don't think that a time-out, used properly as guiding a child towards a healthy means of calming down and feeling angry in a safe way, is damaging, but moreover, sometimes there is no way for a parent to remain calm while being physically attacked, especially repeatedly. So even if a child is, say, somehow slightly "damaged" from the parent leaving the room to re-group or just live a normal life as a human rather than as a pincushion / punching bag, surely that is preferable to the damage that would be caused by the parent freaking out.

Which is pretty much where you get when your toddler starts physically attacking you on a regular basis. It is normal and acceptable, in my opinion, to feel angry about repeated physical violence, even if the person doing it is small and not entirely reasonable. We all have rights.

Nobody can put up with that so I think your MIL's and DH's reactions are really appropriate.

In other words, we seem to agree that they have found the best solution. I hope that you manage to get to the bottom of whatever is causing your son to feel so upset!

 

[Lupena]

Thanks for the confirmation, this is difficult for me, I'm probably in a bit of denial, as in " he doesn't do it to me, you just have to talk to him like this.." type of thing.
EdnaMarie, I think you just explained perfectly put the way DH is feeling on a regular basis. It really bothers me to think that now matter how complete his love is for DS, that sort of treatment will have repercussions. It is really a terrible feeling to be attacked, literally, physically. I do not deal well with it at all. He threw a block at me a couple of weeks back and I was infuriated, even though it was a rare occurance, because he did it on purpose. He could tell I was angry.. I was practically yelling, as a response to the pain- I picked him up and held him and told him that was NOT ok... Since I raised my voice he cried and asked for nursing and we cuddled and talked about it, and it hasn't happened since.

And it's weird how much it hurts to see DS halfheartedly acting out for whatever reasons he can't quite explain, except that he says he's angry whenever I'm not there..) and seeing MIL ( halfway progressive, halfway oldschool ) disciplining him. All I want to do is make the (imposter )behavior go away, that is just not the boy he truly is, KWIM? ( oh, that does sound milksoppy, but I am that I suppose.)

 

[momma_unlimited]

My husband always lets the boys have some time play roughhousing- he'll hold up his hand high five style and keep telling them to give it to him as hard as they can. Then he dramatizes how strong they are "Ohhh- I can hardly take it" etc etc. They really like that... they laugh and laugh.. and I think it's a nice playful way for them to get out those feelings of being smaller and less in control. But we make it clear when it's playtime and when its not ok to hit.

I really don't understand why "time-out" is damaging. I mean, there is time out in sports games- it's not punitive. I really think you could be "damaging" with any technique if your attitude is wrong, but the idea of stopping what's going on because of a negative dynamic, to take a break, maybe get a change of scenery, a moment of refreshment- what's wrong with that?

 

[EdnaMarie]

Quote:

All I want to do is make the (imposter )behavior go away, that is just not the boy he truly is, KWIM? ( oh, that does sound milksoppy, but I am that I suppose.)

Yeah, because my daughter gets really physical and angry when my mother is there with my nephew, and I just feel like she's been taken over by some other toddler. But she hasn't- it's her. I have no idea what your son may be reacting to but maybe someone in real life could speculate more?

 

[Lupena]

Yes, as foreign as it seems, it's true, it is part of them. I guess we labour to try to keep them innocent ( kind of a meaningless, demeaning term in a lot of ways ) for as long as possible.

And yes, I can think of a few of things he would be reacting to, but I'm never sure if my normal reaction - keeping him close - is the right one.

We go to a playgroup that seems to upset him, but he always wants to go, and asks to, so I go. Plus, I like all the mums...! But he always leaves all wound up... reactive... whereas, normally, when he's around other kids he's utterly relaxed and at his most tolerant. So much detective work...

 

[Lollicup]

I think it is perfectly healthy and teaching a child that it is not OK to hit. If you're not comfortable having your DH remove himself form the room, then remove a favorite toy each time your DC starts to hit. Give your child a choice to hit and have a toy taken away, or not.

This teaches your DC a healthy lesson that builds character and responsibility now and later in life and is good for them.

Besides, you don't want your DC to think it's OK to hit his father. This is HIS father and imagine your DC growing up and thinking it'd OK to hit male figures.

 

[momma_unlimited]

Quote:

I think it is perfectly healthy and teaching a child that it is not OK to hit. If you're not comfortable having your DH remove himself form the room, then remove a favorite toy each time your DC starts to hit. Give your child a choice to hit and have a toy taken away, or not.

I don't think this would hold much sway over my kids! It would just make them a little madder. I swear when we take something away, my 3yo immediately tries to threaten us with something ("well if you take that, I will leave you in the store and come back and climb up there and get it while you are gone!)- and that makes me feel like I am only teaching him to try to "get people back" or one-up us on punishment.

I guess on the occasions where he has hit inappropriately, I would say something like "Wow you're feeling rough and tough aren't you? If you're feeling like hitting, you can hit this pillow or you can go outside and hit the ground, but if you hit people, we will put you in your room to keep the people safe until you are ready to be gentle".... 9 times out of 10 he will get excited about going outside, grab a stick and whack the ground a couple times, then be distracted and chill out.

The whole aggression to daddy thing *in my house* always seemed to be a function of the kids being with me all day and feeling like they have me pegged, I am the "softy"- but when dad comes home a new sheriff's in town and they start to feel like giving him a run for his money... not saying this is *your* scenario. Who knows maybe they feel like thereare less "boundaries" with dad so they push back harder to find the place where they stop and he begins. Or there is just some issue he has in dealing with his dad that he can't express, so he feels frustrated and acts up. ??

 

[labdogs42]

I was going to suggest redirecting the aggression to a pillow, too. Or some more rough house play with Daddy. Your DH deserves not to be hit, just like your DS deserves not to be hit. Allowing your DS to chill out in his room until he is ready to play nice is OK. I don't call them time outs and they aren' punishment in our house, but if DS gets out of control with something, I say," I think you need to chill out in your room for a little while, come back down when you are ready." It really does seem to help.

 

[alexsam]

I haven't read all the responses but... Sometimes a "time out" (for adults too) is important. There is nothing inherently bad or "damaging" about saying "Look, what your doing hurts, is making me mad, and we both need to cool off and get things together. I'm going to go in here/you're going to go in there and we'll come out when we're ready to be gentle with eachother." In fact, this is a very healthy and reasonable response... In fact, it's totally reasonable to say "I don't want to be hurt." and prevent that too by a "time out" (think about it: what type of message does it send if we allow ourselves to be hurt? Do you want to model yourself accepting being physically hurt in martyrdom? That is not a healthy apprach either....).

And, I'd try and figure out what is setting it off. And this can be SO strange in how it manifests. He might be taking things out on your husband because he feels he can be more physical with him or he feels safe with him with these feelings so he brings them to him. He might have something else going on- testing, etc. My son went through a really difficult hitting phase and we eventually realized it was what a friend with a PhD in psych calls a "shame spiral"- he'd get all wound up, not know what to do, hit, feel terrible for hitting, hit more because he felt so bad, down, down the spiral. But this was actually really hard to figure out. It *looked* like an esclating temper tantrum, but it was really him cycling down (though we never did anything to "shame" him obviously).

I'd also try and arrange "good time" between them. I worked with emotionally distrubed children for a long time and a trainer once said "A child's emotional balance is like a bank account, but its not one for one. Every "withdrawl"- every negative incident, every discipline measure, every time you need to do something in which they know they are off the mark- requires 3 "deposits"- good things, positive relationship time, laughs, compliments." So, I'd try to arrange for times when they can make lots of "deposits" for all these "withdrawls" that happen.

 

[peaceful_mama]

I don't have much help...but my 4 year old has hit my mom with pillows from the couch sometimes when she's babysitting. (Mom lives with us.) Also, not long after we moved in here, he cut the blinds in her bedroom. (I *think* he just found a pair of scissors not put away and they were there...)

Sometimes he and his sister are perfectly fine for her to babysit, other times there is this hitting junk.

I have noticed the hitting seems to be related to how much time I've had to spend with them before I leave--not even IMMEDIATELY but in general. Like if it's been a week where I've been doing a lot of cleaning around the house or for some reason been out more than usual without them, they are more likely to act out with my mom.

since I figured that one out I try to think about that and plan it into when I'm going to be gone and have her babysit....