Mothering Forum banner

1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,450 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i've been reading all these 'homeschoolers are weird' posts <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> DD will be 5 in a week, and it is the first time that i am becoming bothered by her being socially awkward. she is not 'shy', but she is rather oblivious to social mores and etiquette. i've never been the 'what do you say now' type, or 'say thank you, honey'. my approach was to model and let her watch and absorb. well, there was a point when she seemed like she had absorbed some, but now she simply doesn't seem to care.<br><br>
when she wants something at home, she not only doesn't ask politely, but she'd ask me in a very rude way, even if she doesn't mean it. my strategy has been not to make a bit deal about it, comply with her request, and mention casually that i'd prefer she were more polite or used a different tone of voice.<br><br>
if we have a visitor she will run to the door and growl (showing excitement <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"> ) and will push her toys or crafts into people's hands without saying a word. despite me standing there and 'modeling' with 'high Betty, how are you?'<br><br>
if someone in public shows her attention (no matter how non-intrusively, i'm not talking someone talking into her face, but someone smiling at her and holding the door open) she will often start screaming -- telling me that she doesn't like that person, that the person spoke to loudly, too close to her, or whatever. thankfully, she speaks in russian <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> i tell her that it is okay not to like some people, but it is not okay to display her dislike so openly.<br><br>
she is becoming the stereotype of a socially awkward homeschooler.<br><br>
today i tried to casually mention this to her, that she needs to try to be more polite when people are polite to her in public. she said, quoting, "let's not talk about it." <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
yesterday, after my friend left, i also casually mentioned to her that some adults don't really like when kids behave in this way, and she said, "let's not talk about the past, mama." <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: i tried to make a point that sometimes we need to talk about unpleasant things that had happened, because this is how we see what went wrong and how to try to do better. she was not receptive to this.<br><br>
i am becoming really affected by this. on one hand, i tell myself that she is only 5 (not even yet), but on the other hand, well, she is almost 5, and what was cute at 3 and 4, like growling at visitors or pulling at their clothing to get attention, or demanding a glass of water as though i'm her servant, and have been denying her water for days... well, this is just not cute anymore.<br><br>
she is not exposed to many kids. when we go to a playgroup, she is the oldest, and she is not into playing with the toddlers. i'm thinking of enrolling her into group activities next fall, but she might not be interested at what is offered (very limited options here) and i am also nervous about her behaviour in a group setting. she is not a team player <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
we have an 11 year old girl come and play with her, so i have a bit of break, and so that DD has a chance to communicate in english (she is almost fluent now), but it is not a 'friendship', as it is not balanced, though the girl is super nice and DD loves when she comes. but when the girl does not do what DD wants her to do, DD runs to me complaining <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">, so it is always DD's way, which i am beginning to see as problematic...<br><br>
i often read posts / articles that would talk about an extremely talented homeschooler, or a genious, or someone with exceptional ability in one field or another, and the writer would say that yeah, the child might have his /her 'weird' areas and is judged by others. well, this will sound awful, but she doesn't have any 'compensating' qualities (as perceived by others. not by me, but i am becoming focused on that <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> ). she is average in her development, she is not especially sensitive to the needs of others, sometimes quite the opposite, she doesn't have any unusual skills etc. there is nothing she can 'impress' others with, make them more forgiving of her awkwardness.<br><br>
i need some pep talk. is this developmentall normal? is she going to grow out of it? i'm so worried for her, for the way she is perceived by others.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,753 Posts
My ds will certainly do the rude demands to me but not generally to other people. He might not want to talk to visitors right away if he doesn't know them well. He picked up social politeness easily and uses it well when he is at his best (not tired, hungry, or overstimulated). I have started to tell him to ask me politely for things and waiting for him to actually do so now that he is older (unless he is really out of whack, tired, etc when I just humor him until he is feeling better).<br><br>
He has always been verbal and a quoter, so saying polite phrases comes easily. The other day, he asked me to cut the edges off his ravioli. I told him I'd rather not to which he replied "I'd really appreciate it if you would" <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> , so I did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,213 Posts
I think at not quite 5 it's still too early to expect a child to always remember the proper way of reacting with others. I think reminding her and maybe even role playing with her would be fine but I wouldn't just assume she's awkward socially at this piont. Some kids pick up social etiquette later and with more difficulty than others no matter if they are homeschooled or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,878 Posts
I guess it really depends on your comfort level with it... In my experience, unschoolers that I know are extremely articulate...although not always polite. But, show me a group of kids who are always polite? Come on, now! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"><br><br>
She's not quite 5? When she was 4, my dd did go through a stage where she just kind of squealed and hid behind me when people spoke to her.<br><br>
This is where we fall off of the "radical unschooling" bus. Dh and I never expect or encourage our children interact physically with people when they don't want to (i.e. kissing, hugging, shaking hands, etc). However, we do require that they acknowledge other people who speak to them and that they speak as politely as the situation calls for.<br><br>
This is also a cultural thing. My children don't have the "luxury" of being considered cute and innocent and excusable for as long as white children do. It's unfair...but it's the cold, honest truth.<br><br>
Sounds like you're addressing the behaviors by arranging more opportunities for your dd to interact with others. Does she also get to come along for any "adult" functions or activities with you and dh? Like church stuff, community meetings, clubs, etc? Our dd1 has grown to love the opportunity to practice her public speaking skills at these types of events...<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> Even if they're just being polite, adults will listen with rapture to her monologues!<br><br>
ETA: ITA that your dd is too young to label or seriously worry about! Just keep doing what you're doing, Mama! She'll be fine!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
962 Posts
Sorry your having problems.<br>
This stands out to me-<br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">when she wants something at home, she not only doesn't ask politely, but she'd ask me in a very rude way, even if she doesn't mean it. my strategy has been not to make a bit deal about it, comply with her request, and mention casually that i'd prefer she were more polite or used a different tone of voice.</td>
</tr></table></div>
IMO that’s a mistake. I think it's great to model but I think for most kids that’s not enough. I think for any person child or adult if we comply continually with rudeness from them then we are teaching them to treat us in a dis-respectful manner. You need to have certain personal boundaries. One being that you do not respond to rudeness. Have a sit down chat first and explain that how we treat each other is important. That being rude makes people feel bad inside and is dis-respectful. That from now on you will not respond to rudeness. That if she wants to ask for water or anything else that it needs to be respectful. Maybe see if you can model the situation with some soft toys.<br>
Then ask her to have a go too. Once the line has been set simple don't respond to rude demands. Maybe remind her that your ears do not hear rudeness, and that she needs to think about how she is asking.<br><br>
I wouldn't tackle everything at once. Although if she is rude to people I would remind her that that is being dis-respectful and that while she doesn’t have to talk to them being rude is not acceptable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,896 Posts
For the most part i would say it is just five. however i think that sort of behavior deserves more than a "casual mention" if you want it to change. i would not be ok with my child acting this way at any age and would be working on correcting it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
759 Posts
I would say the age.<br><br>
My niece (who I am with most weekdays from 8-6) is five and a behavioral nightmare. If she asks if its time for lunch and I say in just a minute (meaning I have to make it first) she flips out on the floor in a massive tantrum. She's always telling me what to get her for her birthday (next January) and will frequently hit her brother (2) and sister (6). At school she doesn't have any friends because they are all "mean" to her (we have lots of conversations about who is really being mean to who).<br><br>
Kids come in and out of socially awkward phases until they are grown. I would work with her behavior, but not stress about it too much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
First off, it's never cute to demand something of another person and expect the person to comply..at age 2 or 3 or 5.<br><br>
It's very simple. She demands or acts rudely and gets what she wants..she has no incentive to act or speak any differently. Kindly explain to her that you're not going to comply to her demands if she doesn't ask in a polite, respectable way. One or two times of not getting what she wants using her current behavior will have her changing her tune in no time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,212 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>WalkingByFaith</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8204637"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">First off, it's never cute to demand something of another person and expect the person to comply..at age 2 or 3 or 5.<br><br>
It's very simple. She demands or acts rudely and gets what she wants..she has no incentive to act or speak any differently. <b>Kindly explain to her that you're not going to comply to her demands if she doesn't ask in a polite, respectable way.</b> One or two times of not getting what she wants using her current behavior will have her changing her tune in no time.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<br>
This can backfire too though. I did this with my DS and he now thinks he should always get what he wants if he asks in a "polite" (and condescending) voice. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: When addressing the problem, I would focus more on the fact that it's plain, old <i>not OK to talk to your mother that way because it's disrespectful</i>.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,324 Posts
I would agree that it's not something to give a "serious" label too but I think some of the issues need to be addressed. Something I've really stressed with my kids is respect toward other people including me. They know they have to ask for something nicely or they have NO chance of getting it. I tell them I am happy to help them but I am not their servant. Both my kids at 3 and 5 have learned to ask for things politely. My youngest has a hard time remembering but a simple "How do we ask for something?" usually does the trick.<br><br>
I've honestly met a lot of rude homeschooled kids. I don't think it's that they haven't been exposed to others. They just haven't been taught to respect others. I think it's something all kids need to be taught.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,896 Posts
With my four year old we are realy worklin gon this right now. when she asks rudely or with a whiney voice or with a tantrum . . . or any othe rinappropriate way imaginable (she seems to have a lot of different irritating ways to demand things) i reprase it for her. I truely believe that she just forgets when she is excited about something. and since we don't move on until she asks nicely she usually cooperates pretty quickly. She is a little speach delayed and this was suggested by the lady who did her evaluation. I was suprised by how fast her communication developed by doing this. but me just modeling behavior and expecting her to pick it up didn't cut it. But when I stopped everything and gave her a specific thing to immitate. oh I think you are asking for a glass of water but it is hard to understand you when you are whining. Can you smile and say "may I please have a glass of water mommy?" which she will usually do right away. sometimes I make it really silly- "can you say " may I please have a yummy shmummy fosty cold blue or pink cup of water on my head mommy" which can help her cheer up before she actually tries to ask if she is really upset. it is really important that Ava is not whining even a little bit because of her speach issues it is truely impossible to understand her if there is even a hint of whining or crying. she is barely understandable as it is.<br><br>
sometimes instead of giving her a phrase to repeat (since she is getting older) i wil simply ask her "would you like mommy to help you find the right words to ask nicely?" if you are not comfortable demanding that your dd use different words perhaps you can just ask her if she needs some help asking nicely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
792 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Stayseeliz</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8205681"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would agree that it's not something to give a "serious" label too but I think some of the issues need to be addressed. Something I've really stressed with my kids is respect toward other people including me. They know they have to ask for something nicely or they have NO chance of getting it. I tell them I am happy to help them but I am not their servant. Both my kids at 3 and 5 have learned to ask for things politely. My youngest has a hard time remembering but a simple "How do we ask for something?" usually does the trick.<br><br>
I've honestly met a lot of rude homeschooled kids. I don't think it's that they haven't been exposed to others. They just haven't been taught to respect others. I think it's something all kids need to be taught.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:<br>
I refuse to raise children that are not considerate of others. I believe it to be one of the most important things I do as a parent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,490 Posts
This may not be anything that anyone here is comfortable with and you might think I'm terrible, but I have two kids now who are capable of speaking to me in a rude, demanding tone and so I do what I have to do. With younger kids, I often rephrase what they've just said. So if Child A says, "I want almond butter! Give me almond butter!", I reply, "Mama, can I please have some almond butter?" And whether or not they repeat it (and they often do), I feel as though it takes the mind-reading element out and helps them with the words. Often, they ask politely the next time.<br><br>
Also, I'm not adverse to telling them that their tone has made me feel angry or hurt my feelings. With others, especially as they grow older, demanding things in a rude voice *will* anger others or hurt their feelings. So I figure I'm a safe person now to kind of deliver this message in safe environment. "I want almond butter NOW!". "When you speak to me like that, it makes me feel angry because you're being rude in the way you are speaking to me. It makes me feel like not getting almond butter for you."<br><br>
And yes, 5, in my one limited experience, can be an age of attitude. It's also a wonderful, sunny, Mama-oriented age. With all ages, it's a little of this and that.<br><br>
The other thing that I do is that I compliment them when they are being polite. Child A comes up to me and says, "Mama, can I please have some almond butter. Thank you!" I occasionally say, "Wow, that's so polite. Thank you for speaking so politely to me." In other words, I try to talk about the issue (in this case, the fact that they're speaking in this polite way) when we're not embroiled in any issues. Because when we've just butted heads or come out of negative situation, I find that they're not really listening to me and it's not the most receptive time to talk about what to do/what to avoid. But if I can talk about it out of the blue, they seem more receptive.<br><br>
The last thing I do, and I know the OP said she does this, is that I model a lot. I thank my children for little things. I say, "Oh, thank you for saying that. That's so kind." Just like they parrot the "bad" words or phrases that slip from my mouth, they parrot the positive ones.<br><br>
ETA: I've just reread and I realize that I do not come off as strict as I am. In addition to saying these things, I have absolutely not complied with a demand until the child has spoken to me in a more respectful tone. For me personally, it's not a case of "respecting your elders". I don't adopt that philosophy. To me it's an issue of speaking to other people in the way that you wish them to speak to you. It's also that this is what our society expects and I feel that life will go easier for them if they learn to use the social niceties that people expect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
156 Posts
Don't dispair! It sounds like she just needs some practice. This is absolutely not a crisis. Many kids *are* oblivious. Modeling alone usually is not enough. Along with modeling, try direct instruction and praise.<br><br>
I'd set aside ten minutes a day, every day, and make it fun. So, when you are both calm and happy (not right when she's done something rude), you can use little toys or puppets to play through a situation, such as greeting someone at the door, asking for a snack, taking turns, saying hello to the grocer, etc. The idea is to learn before the situation arises, rather than correct after a mistake. You can then practice in real life. And praise.<br><br>
When my children were much older, even, we used their old toy phone to practice how to answer the phone (we role-played daily for about five mintes for about a week). They were thrilled to receive lots of compliments from our friends on their nice phone manners.<br><br>
I second the idea of not reponding to disrespectful questions. I tell my kids that they need to talk to me in the same kind of voice I'm using with them. Also, that the answer will *always* be "no" if they ask rudely. I used to prompt and let them try again; but, I found that that just set up a pattern of rude-then prompt-then-nice.<br><br>
I absolutely don't see this as overly controling. On the contrary, to simply ignore rudeness/disrespect teaches kids that other people are not valuable. We all need to act as nicely as we'd like to see others act toward us. There really is something to the idea that manners are how we convey to others that they are valuable and important.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,447 Posts
I don't think that rudeness to visitors and bossy, demanding behavior at home are unschooling symptoms. I think that they reflect the fact that your daughter may need more explicit instruction in how to treat people politely. Some kids don't just pick up social cues unconsciously. I went through a phase with my Ramona (who is 5 yrs, 3 months old) where I had to tell her, "I will get that for you after you ask me in a polite voice" because I was unwilling to be spoken to the way she was speaking to me. It took a few months, but now she is quite polite to me.<br><br>
But honestly, the fact that your daughter growls at people, avoids conversation with them, and screams at people who smile at her leads me to believe that there is something else going on. I'm not sure what it might be, but my daughter has Sensory Processing Disorder and it has explained a lot of her behaviors and actions. If I were you, I would probably talk to a pediatrician, an occupational therapist, or an early childhood specialist to see whether these unusual behaviors are indicative of a developmental issue.<br><br>
dm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,447 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>WalkingByFaith</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8204637"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">One or two times of not getting what she wants using her current behavior will have her changing her tune in no time.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/spitdrink.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="spitdrink"><br><br>
These kinds of statements always make me <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
Maybe this is true if you have one of those exceptional children who are extremely eager to please and really, really want to do the right thing rather than just get what they want. But if you have a kid who is strong willed and ready to do battle to defend her right to have things exactly the way she wants them to be, trust me, one or two times is not going to do the trick. One or two thousand times, maybe, but definitely not one or two times. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
dm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,101 Posts
Okkkk...so am I the ONLY one who thinks leave her the heck alone, she's fine & will be fine? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lurk.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lurk">:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,431 Posts
I mostly lurk around here, but I used to work for early intervention as a pediatric physical therapist before becoming a SAHM. Some of what you mentioned sounded like a potential sensory processing disorder. That might be worth exploring further as a PP mentioned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,560 Posts
I'd like to share an observation. I've noticed that when parents advance their child's age in anticipation of a birthday, the parents soon become very concerned about some behavior that the child has had for some time. It's not just you, OP. I notice this a lot. I think we try to get ahead of the game applying the new ages' behavior standards.<br><br>
So, your child is 4. The "behavior that was cute at 3 and 4"....your child *is* 4. On her birthday she'll "just 5" and "barely 5" and "a young 5."<br><br>
She wouldn't be in school until this Fall.<br><br>
When she acts just past toddler-hood (which she is) in public, I'd say something polite and if appropriate apologetic to the other person.<br><br>
But, mostly, I'd avoid engaging with others in public until she's more comfortable with it. This from a woman who had her whole body over her 2 year old in a restaurant the other day as I said, "She doesn't really like strangers" 5 times to the person who kept trying to talk to her while she started to quietly freak out. I see that behavior a lot more often than I see kids being impolite to grown-ups.<br><br>
Somewhere between 6 and 8, she'll get comfortable with other people. No rush.<br><br>
On the tone thing, 4 year olds have generally just mastered language enough to communicate their needs verbally. Inflection and other complicated stuff is something they experiment with for a while. I wouldn't take it personally. I wouldn't make a big deal about it. I think modelling will pay off for you on this one.<br><br>
I don't think that if you cooperate with her she'll never learn to make her requests kindly. I think getting into a power struggle with a 4 year old is exhausting and wastes everyone's time.
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top