[MamaSweetP]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070621/...lia_aborigines
Well heck, if he wants to "solve" the problem, shouldn't he outlaw poverty and hopelessness while he's at it? How about outlawing racial discrimination?

:

 

[Mama Dragon]

Oh my god. WTH??

 

[tboroson]

I thought that Australia gave up on such colonial racism decades ago. I am... beyond disappointed in them.

 

[huggerwocky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tboroson I thought that Australia gave up on such colonial racism decades ago. I am... beyond disappointed in them.

Not at all

:...I don't even know where to start!

 

[captain optimism]

I was just coming to post about this! I think we need to organize world-wide incredulous mockery, so the government will reconsider this policy.

Like, hello, how about allocating resources to aborginal leaders to deal with these problems the way THEY see fit?

 

[LionTigerBear]

I was expecting to be horrified, and, I am not.

These laws aren't about harassing ethnic adults, they are about protecting defenseless ethnic children. I find it to be more honorable to stand up for the rights of children than to try to be politically correct. Good for them.

"And tying drinking with welfare payments is just disgusting."

How is that disgusting? Makes a lot of sense to me . . . but if it's going to be a policy, it ought to be the policy for everyone, not just aboriginal people.

The article stated that these policies will be reviewed for effectiveness in 6 months. That sounds very reasonable.

I can't believe people here are all mad about measures taken to protect children.

:

 

[LionTigerBear]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain optimism Like, hello, how about allocating resources to aborginal leaders to deal with these problems the way THEY see fit?

What if two or three or more of them just decide to protect their buddies instead? How do we know THEY aren't child abusers themselves? And how do you know this kind of avenue hasn't been explored already?

 

[artgoddess]

LionTigerBear, are you seriously saying that you do NOT see this as racist?

 

[sophiesue2]

How about we ban porn for white males over here, since the vast majority of sexual serial killers are white?

 

[LionTigerBear]

quote: How about we ban porn for white males over here, since the vast majority of sexual serial killers are white?

As far as I know, porn isn't linked to serial killing, and I know there isn't any huge widespread serial killing problem, let alone amongst a single ethnic community of white men. So that's really not a good parallel.

If there was a group of white people where some crime was a common and reoccuring problem and porn was found to be scientifically linked to the problem, I would say, by all means, rescind their rights to porn for a period of time and see if it made a difference. That would be parallel.

Honestly, the problem happens to be with an ethnic group that is black. So that's where they are addressing the problem. I am really failing to see how this is actually racist. Wouldn't it be more hateful to leave those poor children to the mercies of sick individuals?

Now, I don't think it's a coincidence that this problem is happening in this group. I'm sure years of colonialism and forced poverty and social injustice have contributed heavily to alcohol abuse. Perhaps there is a genetic predisposition to alcoholism (happens in other ethnicities including white), or a cultural predisposition to child abuse (yes that happens in white groups too). At any rate, the problem is what it is now and needs to be dealt with swiftly in the best interest of the children, not their sick abusers.

I really don't think racism is the intent here-- I could be wrong about intentions, but it just doesn't seem like that to me. I have to say, I know child sexual abuse very intimately from my own experience-- perhaps that's where my biase is. If it is a biase, than I'm glad of it. Children all over the world are being emotionallyand physically tortured by incest, and I for one will stand up and say "It's NOT okay." In general, children experiencing incest are not protected by their own families. The family will protect the offender and the family's "good" name from embarassment, sooner than protect the child. This phenomenon appears to be cross-cultural.

The only other thing to do would be to remove mass amounts of ethnic children from their homes and place them in homes of another culture. That would be far worse I think. I applaud these measures to try to protect children while keeping families intact as much as possible.

 

[artgoddess]

wow, um just wow.

 

[sophiesue2]

So pornography is NOT linked to sexual deviants preying on adults, but it IS linked to sexual deviants preying on children?

 

[boodafli]

i have no words. for real. i can certainly see the benefit in taking some action to protect the kids...like...um....oh! oh! i know! ARREST THE CHILD MOLESTERS! yeah! that's a novel approach.

but. no. it does make more sense to ban liquor and skinz, and further limit the economic opportunities available to an already marginalized population. because then, you'll get more angry dry drunks, who are depressed, and more depressed at the reduction in benefits, and more likely to abuse kids both physically and sexually. and then maybe if you're lucky, they'll fight with each other, and kill one another. then you've got one dead one, and one you can put in jail, and you've effectively reduced the offending population by TWO!

it's brilliant. really.

 

[Jessviola]

How could taking away the rights of the Aborigines be anything *but* racist?

:

 

[tboroson]

LTB, the blatant racism in your attitude is especially ironic when contrasted with your siggie.

 

[LionTigerBear]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boodafli ARREST THE CHILD MOLESTERS!

This doesn't work in cases where the problem is rampant and the family and/or community has "circled the wagons" to protect perpatrators. You can't arrest people when no one will witness.

I can't believe some of you think I'm racist.

: Look, if this policy is racist, (and I am open to the possibility that there is something here that I am missing, really,) than show me. I'm open-minded. But to say that what I wrote above is racist? Umm, sorry, no.

I am so surprised at the response here I have to wonder if some of you actually condone child-adult sexual relations, but are hiding behind an ad hominem attack. I hope this is not so but am somewhat at a loss . . . ? I would be interested to hear some logical arguments-- rather than fallacies of logic. I do not gaurantee I will stick around this thread though if I feel attacked.

 

[artgoddess]

In general child abuse is way more common in poor people, as is substance abuse. Regardless of ethnicity. That's just simply a fact. In the case of Aboriginal people the poverty was created because of the racism against. Now, rather than address the true causation of this issue, the government is with a wide paint brush punishing all people of one ethnicity in an outrageously demeaning manner. To tell a person they can't hold their liquor is bad enough to say it's because of their ethnicity? Even worse. Alcoholism may be a serious issue in this community, however by punishing all people who live there, and by doing so in a way that blames the victim of racism is piling on even more insult to a horrible situation. I think all of this is an attempt to deflect the spotlight away from the way the white government of Australia has created the problem of alcoholism in the first place.

Any Australians out there who want to chime in?

 

[Jessviola]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LionTigerBear but if it's going to be a policy, it ought to be the policy for everyone, not just aboriginal people.

You said it yourself here. Regardless of what you think of the banning of liquor and pornography (personally, I think it's a ridiculous policy and can't believe the gov't is serious), the fact that they're singling out the Aborigines is racist.

 

[zipworth]

This is a total band-aid approach, and it's completely rediculous! This is blatant racism-Taking a group of people based on ethnicity and forcing upon them a different set of rules. Crazy

: .

 

[swimswamswum]

This is incredibly disturbing. LTB, I take issue with much of what you wrote. I think that more of a heavy handed, colonial approach is the last thing that Aborigines need given the history of racism, exploitation and subjugation in Australia.

I urge you to do some reading about colonialism in Australia and other parts of the world. I know that you don't intend to support racism, but much of what you've written does and it seems that if you developed a greater understanding of the context of the current situation, you might better understand why this policy is so disturbing to many of us. This policy smacks of the "white man's burden" that has so badly hurt many of the world's people.

White people have long been invading sovereign people, telling them how to believe and how to act. Aborigines have been treated as less than human since the first invaders arrived- creating laws that strip them of fundamental civil rights guaranteed to all other Australians is unspeakable. It continues to separate them, it continues to "other" them and to mark them as "less than". The human rights of Native people have long been denied since the presence of white men; creating laws in 2007 that continue to deny Native Australians rights afforded to all others is absolutely abhorant. I am deeply disturbed that this is being defended here.