[pumpkinhead]

I am the proud mother of a VERY *spirited* little boy. He started fighting sleep at 4 wks. He'd wake up at 8 am and not sleep again (AT 4WKS!!!) until 3 in the afternoon. EGAD! At 9 &1/2 mos, he gave up having 2 naps, so we're down to just 1 aft. nap. (usually 1-2 hrs)

Anyhow, so this is where I'm at. Usually, now at almost 14mos, he falls to sleep on his own in his own bed. He won't be rocked or slung, he refuses to lie still if I try to lay down with him in my bed he's like an octopus, all legs and arms, trying to get away. He'll only fall asleep on his own terms. Usually, our routine works just fine. After lunch, I take him to his room, rock him while reading stories (the only way he'll be rocked), give him a kiss and put him in the crib. I turn on his fishy, aquarium music polaying thingy and leave and w/in 10-15 min, he's asleep w/ no fuss. Every now and then, this backfires.

So, I end up with a cranky, sleep-deprived toddler who is mad at the world at large until bedtime. He'll actually PINCH himself to stay awake

. Out of SHEER desparation, I left him in his crib yesterday to CIO. ACK!!! Never have I EVER done this. After about 2-3 minutes of hearing him scream, I started for the stairs and then....blessed silence!!. I let a few minutes pass and went up. He was asleep (face down in his 'pat the bunny' book'

)!!! Will miracles never cease to amaze?

My question is this: is there ever a time when CIO is appropriate? Is it possible that ds just needs control over this whole going-to-sleep process? Am I an evil mother for even considering this? If he get's into his fighting sleep routine, there is NOTHING(man nor beast nor drive in the car) that will settle him! He won't nap and, hence, doesn't sleep well at night...it's a vicious circle.

 

[its_our_family]

No, you are not a bad mother!

I was talking to my mom about this and she told me that my sister always cried herself to sleep. No, they didn't CIO. Even if they were rocking her she still cried before zonking out. I think its weird

My ds was/is the same way. He would wake at 9am and would not nap until about 4 in the afternoon as a newborn! His naps are about 45 minutes in length normally he only takes one. Today he hasn't taken one at all.

My SIL was allowed to CIO once she hit the age of 3 and still refused to sleep. My MIL told me that she would rock the crib so hard it would scoot across the floor. Thei ds was old enough to understand but still refused. It only took 2 nights and she started sleeping with no problems and even asked to go to bed

I don't recommend that tactic but I think what you did was fine. I think they get to a point that they want to know how to do it on their own. My ds will be 18 months next week and he tries so hard to get himself to sleep. He jsut can't figure it out yet.

I don't think I helped at all......

 

[maighdhlin]

I agree with "it's our family" in her response. My DD is 13 mos. She used to nurse to sleep every time she fell asleep. Like your DS, her sleep patterns have always been a little out of the ordinary. She never napped well and never really slept through the night. She will sleep in the car and OCCASIONALLY will let herself be rocked to sleep. Otherwise she had to either nurse to sleep or take a bottle from DH or DCP to fall asleep.

In the last few months it became a battle. She'd nurse a bit. Then roll off and cry. Repeating this for AN HOUR OR TWO. <sigh>. Now all of a sudden, she nurses a bit, rolls off and lays there in the middle of the bed (she still sleeps wtih us) and carries this on for an hour or two, but eventually puts herself to sleep. I think she's trying to learn how to put herself to sleep, it's just taking awhile for her to get the hang of it.

So I guess this is my long winded way of saying, you're not a bad mom - this is probably just the way he needs to learn to put himself to sleep.

 

[sleepies]

depends on what you'd mean by cio

i am fine with letting a one or two or three+ year old cry and have a tantrum in time out for a few minutes.

when my toddler (who is 2) gets totally out of control.......and after i warn him......if he still is angry, loud, and mean, i tell him it is time for time out....and i put him in the playpen and let him cry/scream for a few minutes, then i get him out and say "mommy loves you please no more cry" and he stops.

time out works for us pretty well.....it is sort of a cry it out, but not really. id never do that with a baby....or for a long term.

......but, i do think is ok for toddler to cry and throw fit...in a time out situation.......keeps everyone safe in my view.

ps. we have not had to do this at bedtimes. but he also doesn't take a nap. my little one goes to bed happily, but is also very sleepy by then.

id try routine.. that helps for bedtimes.

 

[FreeRangeMama]

I am the (very tired) mother of an excessively spirited 2.5 yo sleep-fighting champion. We have been through every possible sleep scenario in the last couple of years. He will go to great lengths to keep himself awake, he has done everything from biting, pinching, and hitting himself, to biting, kicking, hitting, and pinching me, and so much more. There are many things I have learned along the way, none of them might apply to your situation, but I will share them with you just in case

-nothing I do will make him sleep better forever, some things might help in the short term, but it never lasts
-routines make it worse as he knows sleep is coming and will fight even harder to stay awake
-anything I have tried that made bedtime unpleasant or negative has resulted in WORSE sleep
-as soon as I figure something out he changes all the rules and I am once again clueless
-tiring him out both mentally AND physically will help him wake less that night
-never force him to nap or he will sleep even LESS at night
-as soon as he figures out an activity puts him to sleep he will protest against that activity (stroller walks, car rides, etc)

I could go on and on...........

I do know that if I would have tried CIO with my ds it would have backfired completely and he would probably not sleep well again for a LONG time to come. Of course your ds and your family is different, so only you can really know what will work for you. Trust your instincts on the matter and you probably won't go wrong

Laurie

 

[WithHannahsHeart]

I think there is a great difference between what you're describing and how people tend to do CIO, i.e. as a method perpetrated on tiny babies to force them to sleep on their own. It usually involves allowing them to scream and get very distressed for long periods of time, until they give up hope and fall asleep in exhaustion. This is hardly what you're doing. Some kids just HAVE to work it out for themselves, you know? My dd is not quite as strenuous in her protests against sleep, but schedules, routines, etc. seem to have no effect on her either (or maybe mama is lazy and can't stick to a routine, but that's another story

: :LOL .) I think what you're doing is responsive and loving, and will help him in the end, and it makes me feel better to know that other people do this kind of thing with their spirited children, too. Sometimes it just helps to let them get their energies/frustrations out with vocalization (if it's not hysterical or really distressed, which you would certainly be able to judge accurately, i think), wheter it's in arms or in bed. hang in there, mama!

 

[pumpkinhead]

Wow

. Thank you soooooooooo much for your kind and supportive replies ladies! I honestly feel so relieved. I was kinda dreading reading the responses to this thread.I thought I'd get flamed AT LEAST once or twice

, but once again, you ladies have proven to be supportive fonts of information!

Thankfully, bedtime is seldom a problem for us. Our 'routine' usually works beautifully for us then. The only difference is that dh actually put's ds in his crib. For whatever reason, and it's BEYOND my realm of comrehension, he settles better for dh! The MUNCHKIN!

I really am not capable of the long term CIO. I have no trouble inducing a tantrum if it's over one of our 'non-negotioable' issues. Like 'you cannot put rocks in your mouth' or 'climing onto the kitchen table is unacceptable'...anything that puts him in harm's way. Tears don't sway me then. I just can't FUNCTION as a human being if he's crying for a reason other than being mad at me. I think my threshold is probably 10 minutes tops. I just LOATHE and DESPISE these 'parenting' books that say things like 'they will eventually fall asleep. A clever baby will cry longet the next night if you go in to rescue her the first night'

. Sorry, no can do, must
have mamma sanity here.

Oh, so the good news : a no fuss nap today, followed by an equally no-fuss bedtime. Do you all think he might just be testing his boundries?

Again, thanks Mama's, for all of your support!

OH! I should add that, chemigogo, you're absolutely right! He's more 'telling me off' than all out, meltdown crying. More yelling, I guess. You can TOTALLY tell the difference. That also makes me feel better. Especially when I hear him wake up 2 hrs later and start happliy 'chatting' with his stuffed bunny.

Edited to say: You were ALL TOTALLY helpful!! Thanks for taking the time to reply Mama's!

 

[its_our_family]

Quote:

Originally posted by akirasmama -routines make it worse as he knows sleep is coming and will fight even harder to stay awake

This is my son! I tried to start a routine about 8 months ago and it worked one night! The second night he was suspicious. The third night he knew what was up and that was the end!

Once we got him out of a crib and onto a twin mattress (floor in his own room) he started sleeping pretty good.

One thing that I've started doing is that I make bedtime a fun thing to do. Dh and I take him into his room. Dh lays him down and says "night night" and then ds waves and dh leaves. Then ds gets out of bed a brings back 2 books, one for him and one for me. We look at the books, maybe laugh a little, and then he'll decide to lay down and go to sleep. (I also take a cup of water).

I guess we do have a routine but he decides when it starts not me. when he does eye or nose rubbing I say "night night" And he'll wave his hand and say na-na. Then off we go! I now can usually get him down in about 15-20 minutes as opposed to 1-2 hours!

Oh, and tonight I taught him shadow puppets1

 

[grisandole]

I totally don't think what you are doing is wrong or cio! I am the proud mama of a sleep fighting champion as well

Mine is now 16months and he's been going to sleep in his own toddler bed in his own room, and that has helped us. He sleeps better in there, and then when he wakes up late night/earlymorning I bring him in bed w/us.

Anyway, mine sometimes fusses a bit, by complaining-crying for a minute or two when we lay down, then he stops, sucks on his pacifier and eventually falls asleep. I lay with him, though. I've tried just sitting at the edge of his bed and that doesn't work!

It's a rare occasion when he doesn't fuss before falling asleep; it usually only happens in the car.

You're doing a good job!

Kristi

 

[pumpkinhead]

grisandole,

ITA and I've had the same experience. He goes down much easier in his own room in his own bed. When and if (usually when

) he wakes up during the night, I also bring him to bed with us.

It's_our_family

we read LOOOOTTS! of books in our house. The book part he loves, it's the sleep time that follows that he does not

. I like the 'cup of water' idea tho, as well as the shadow puppets

. I think we'll give those a go.

 

[its_our_family]

Tracy has been in a twin bed since about 10 months old. If he wakes in the night I actually get in bed with him

If I sleep there for a couple hours thats fine but now I'm suffering from a bit of insomnia so I stay awake. But after he dozes back off I sneak out and into my own bed!

The shadow puppets have really been a big thing! It is so cute watching him try and when he gets a puppet going he alters his voice to be higher pitched (he doesn't talk he just babbles still)

Oh, and we read in the dark....he has a nightlight and that is the light we use. When the lights were on it took forever to get him down!

 

[justmama]

Oh my goodness. I could have written the original post!!!! Madyson is THE biggest sleep-fighting champion in the world. I've tried everythign from slinging down, to sippies, to rocking, to books, to singing, to back patting, to music, EVERYTHING. Long routine at night, calming bath, etc. I have tried it all. Even "the no-cry sleep solution" could help this child. It's a battle every night to put her in bed and keep her there. She gets out and comes into the living room and says she wants to sleep in our snuggle chair. If I let her, I just fight with her even more about actually laying down and resting a little. Even going to bed WITH her doesn't help. She's awake and kicking and rolling around and talking and pinching, etc. I have let her cry when she's REALLY exhausted. Like the original poster's son, she cried maybe 2 or 3 minutes and just as I'm about to go in and comfort her, I hear that blessed silence!!!!!! So when she's exhausted and I'm burnt out from being mumma, and being "on" all the time for her, I just stick her in bed and tell her she needs to stay there. She pitches a fit for 2 minutes and finally passes out. YAY!
Meg

 

[pumpkinhead]

Just an update:

So, I've decided to try this approach for napping and it is working beautifully!! Instead of a 1-2 hr drama of trying to put him down for the aft nap, it's 2-5 minutes of shrieking (not crying) and then he's down for the count. I usually leave a few soft toys and a board book or two in the crib for him. Today he didn't even fuss! YAY!!When I went up to put a blanket on him I found that he'd fallen asleep with one of his books open on his face

. He seems to conk out mid-activity.

Anyhow, I thank you ladies for your support and for sharing your stories with me! It has been sooooo encouraging.